Hell

[Lady]

Originally posted by Cris
Lady,

That is the wonderful thing about the human imagination. It knows no constraints or limitations and has total freedom to create anything it desires, regardless of whether something is true or not. If the imaginative constructs also appear internally consistent within your own mind then that tends to enforce the belief that the illusions are real.

** Imagination? I said heart

The mark of the reasoned man is the ability to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. In this way man evolves, survives, and progresses. Claims of truth and honesty have no value unless based on reality. Gods lack any basis in reality.

** So what is reality?

 

[moonman]

** Imagination? I said heart

Apparently, the heart contains no neural cells whatsoever, the heart cannot think.

Define 'heart'.

 

[Binary]

Get what you can from this, and hopefully you might read the bible for yourself rather than blaspheme on the account of both you and your fellows ignorance. Did you even know that in the bible death, hell, and the lake of fire wheren't the same? Do you know what a dragon is? Here are some scriptures I think you should read, especially if you profess yourself to know god:

Romans 9th chapter

1 Corinthians 2nd chapter

I don't expect you to fully comprehend these scriptures because they, like most of the word, are for a spiritual mind. If you are found being without understanding, say I am without understanding, and if you are found being without knowlegde, say I am without knowledge. You most be honest first with yourself, for one does not seek what they have already obtained.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Cris,

So when Christians claim humans have free will then I take it that that doesn’t include the choice to love, right? Because if God is love then clearly he must be imposing his will on us, so we aren’t FREE to love without his intervention. [/QUOTE

No. He created us with free will so that we could choose to Love Him or not. Unfortunatly, many seem to choose not to Love Him. If He was imposing Love to you, you would be already Loving Him anways, because you wouldn't have free will.

But what you are saying is that people should love others as is taught in the bible, and this implies that people have the ability and free will to love in that manner. And that of course requires that God is not a part of that loving process.

No, the last sentence is the exact opposite. God IS Love so He is required for Love. And I'm not talking about human "love" here, I'm talking about His Love, I'm talking about God Himself. We can only Love through Him. Without Him, there is no Love.

You are trying to categorize all atheists again as a single group with characteristics other than a disbelief in gods. Some atheists exhibit no sense of love or compassion, while others will take it to the other extreme. The point though is that one doesn’t need a god to exist to show compassion and love.

Most atheists has sense of love or compassion or not? And AGAIN... God IS Love, so you need Him to have Love. When you Love you have HIM within you.

1 John 4:7-8
"7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. "

1 John 4
"12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. "

If you want to learn about Love, read the book1 John...

But love shown by atheists is the love given by personal free will. Christian love is the love that comes from being commanded to love by their dogma.

Mark 12:33
"33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."
To Love Love with all your heart means to Love Love with intention. If you don't Love with intention, your Love is not true. By Loving Love with all your intention, you are able to freely Love everyone, since you are focusing on Love instead of focusing on people. If you focus on people you will say that some people don't deserve your Love. If you focus on Love itself, you will be able to Love everyone. And this Love comes from within you and has no fixed object. It is simply Love, focused on Love Itself. From now on, try to use the word Love instead of God and you will understand what I say more easily...

Is that a hypothetical question or are you accusing me of something? Be careful what you say since you know very little about me.

I just made a question... you don't need to defend yourself... I'm not judging you, I'm just asking: "do you really do them or you just give money for someone else to do? "

Who can you name who gives their whole life for the good of others?

There are missionaries that do. And they not only bring the Word of God with them, but also medical assistance, food, clothes and so on...

God exists only in your imagination. And judging by most of your posts you have no idea what is meant by love, apart from your own imaginative fiction.

I won't even comment on that. I still don't know why you are so defensive... Try to read 1John and you will see there the Love I speak about...

So it isn’t his rules that determine who goes to hell or not then? The criteria are entirely based on his tyrannical judgment. However, For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad." 2 Cor 5:10

This passage is talking about Christians, it is not talking about atheists. What determines who goes to hell or not is the individual him/herself. God only advises you to choose Heaven...

Looks like gibberish.

Really? But that's what you believe...

Are you nuts? My primary objective is to achieve immortality at any price. The same desire as every religionist.

Why do you want immortality?

1. The "lake of fire" burns with brimstone (sulfur.) (Rev 19:20)

Here is the whole verse...

Rev 19:20
"20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he (deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. "
Those two only. Where does It say that others will be thrown?? For more about it, read below...

2. It is a place of torment "day and night forever"(Rev 20:10)

Revelation 20:10
"10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. "
This is NOT speaking about people...
For more about it, read below...

3. Going there is "the second death" (Rev 20:14)
4. Anyone whose name is not written in the Book of Life goes there!!!! (Rev 20:15)

Revelation 20:14-15
"14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. "
It is the "second death". It is described as:

Isaiah 38:17
17 "Lo, for my own welfare I had great bitterness;
It is You who has kept my soul from the pit of nothingness,
For You have cast all my sins behind Your back. "

Pit of nothingness describes a lack of consciousness... "Lake of fire" is a metaphor...

5. Those who commit bad sins go there, but then so do the cowardly and unbelieving! (Rev 21:8)

Revelation 21:8
"8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

You do realize that all those "lake of fire" is comparing it with a volcano, don't you? There is a key thing here. Why there are volcanoes? Have you noticed how pretty are trees around volcanoes? They are pretty and full of life because the volcano fertilizes the land. The fire purifies everything. The Bible talks about it not in the sense of punishment, but in the sense of purification and fertilization...

 

[Binary]

More scriptures to read. I would have posted earlier, but my modem was down.


Job 11

Psalm 111:10 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Proverbs 9th chapter

Proverbs 15:33

2 Corinthians 5:11 - Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

The King James Version(KJV The one that all other english versions are based on, although the others were inaccurately interputed.)

 

[TruthSeeker]

Binary,

What does "fear of the LORD" means for you?
And... my pastor told me that the NASB is the most accurate english translation... And he still loves KJV...

 

[Lady]

Originally posted by moonman

Apparently, the heart contains no neural cells whatsoever, the heart cannot think.

Define 'heart'.

** The part of me that feels, love, anger, hate, etc... surely you don't want the biological make up

 

[Binary]

Well, I don't know who your pastor is, but I refer to the KJV because it is the only one that does not use private opinions of the definations of english words and phrases as a base for its interputation. I don't think you'll understand, because you most first be able to see the depth of the scriptures, before you can see where it was lost or perverted.

 

[TruthSeeker]

And why do you assume that I can't see the depth of the scriptures...?

 

[Maro]

Personaly, I disagree with this notion of Hell. This is because i believe in reincarnation, on the infinate plains of existence. the closest thing to hell would be the plain of Etheroi (SP)

 

[moonman]

TS, I don't have a strong belief in God, though I don't rule out the posibility.
I have no problem feeling love and compassion, I don't think your in a possition to claim that my love is fake because I don't belive in your god.

I read the scriptures, I read the Baghav-gita, I read the teachings of buddha. There are great indepth philosofies to be found here, but I find it stupid to live your life according to anyone of these books. They all teach the same thing at some point, to love and care for each other. Beyond that I don't know.

 

[Lady]

Originally posted by Maro

Personaly, I disagree with this notion of Hell. This is because i believe in reincarnation, on the infinate plains of existence. the closest thing to hell would be the plain of Etheroi

** reincarnation? Higher or Lower existence?

 

[Maro]

Finaly! someone who agrees with me! I too agree that this whole monotheist bit should be chucked out the window. Why would tere only be one diety? it doesn't make sence! I believe there are 3 Dieties. 1good, who cares about his creations, 1 evil,who.... doesn't, and 1 neutral who just is

Picture a scene between a couple after 30 years of Marrage, always argueing(good and Evil) and then Rich Uncle Charlie comes in anddecides what he wants to do.

 

[Maro]

Originally posted by Lady
** reincarnation? Higher or Lower existence?

Ok, listen to me. We live in a ... really big thing... tthat is devided up into plains. in these plains, there is a certain ratio between mind and body. EX On our plain, beings have a ratio of: M10% B90%. I used the "Higher and Lower" as a metiphor, when in reality, all plains are perfectly ballanced. The "Higher" plains are those with less physical existence, yet are in no doubt Greaterin mentallity. and reincarnation... Rebirth

And incase you don't know what Etheroi are, picture a hollow rubber ball, when you bounce it, if goes.. say 3 feet. When you submerge the ball in liquid nitrogen, the air molecules compact into a soli, and the spce left is a true vacuum; an Etheros. All an eteros is... is a being of notingness. A VOID NEEDING TO BE FILLED!!! These Etheroi are in a sence living, controling they'r own actions, yet die if they are touching matter, destroying the matter, and the Etheros.

 

[TruthSeeker]

moonman,

Your love is not fake, as long as you Love everyone unconditionally and impartially... There may be other characteristics but... I think those are the most important ones...

 

[Frank4YAHWEH]

What the hell is hell?

Is it "hot as hell, cold as hell, ..., or what?

What The Hell Is Hell?

Binary,

ALL other English translations are NOT based on the A.K.J.V. Are you not aware that the A.K.J.V. has gone through a number of revisions since the 1611 version? The dates of the revisions are: 1616, 1629, 1638, 1762, & 1769. There also happens to be several English translations before the A.K.J.V. of 1611.

Note that the title page of your King James Bible says, "...WITH FORMER TRANSLATIONS DILIGENTLY COMPARED."

Early English Bibles

Is the so called "Holy Bible" inerrant?

 

[New Life]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Binary,

And... my pastor told me that the NASB is the most accurate english translation... And he still loves KJV...

From what I've heard/seen at chruch NIV and NLT are most accurate, tho we do use the KJV a fair bit too............what is the NASB?

 

[Frank4YAHWEH]

NASB

Read the New American Standard Bible Online.

If anyone is interested in versions that restore the Name of our Heavenly Father and Creator, Yahweh and the Name of His Son, YAHshua to Their Original Stead, see my web page: "YAHWEH" Transliterated Bibles.

 

[TruthSeeker]

What a web page!!
Humm... "Skeptics Annotaded Bible"...?
Well... I will be more carefull with all the links...

 

[notPresidentAndrew]

Hell is death, the return to non-existance. Hell has been used to scare people, especially in a religous and political sense.

Jesus Christ defeated death through his crusifiction and resurrection, therefore we all may live.