Hell

[Juliette]

Justine posted:
"No! Hell is a place where there is endless suffering. We must all pray and be good, so God chooses us to go to Heaven.
If you will not be good, you will be cast to Hell. Mark my words!"

Sheesh, you'd think getting gang-raped by monks would've taught you.

There is no God. We must indulge all of our desires, no matter how wicked, and no matter what the price.

 

[TruthSeeker]

MarcAC,

Well if you define the absence of God as non-existence - well yeah, but, Hell exists or will exist, so how can it be non-existence? I would prefer to say existence without God's love and intervention - where nothing will restrain the potential for evil. And concerning Cris's last post addressed to me, did he misread or did I? Or was he just lying?

Yes, but the absence of God means nothingness, cause there is nothing besides God. Hell exists and at the same time is nothingness. In this sense, Hell is the existance of nothingness... Since we are using the concepts to work with the concepts themselves, then we have this nice little paradox. I guess all that is true is a paradox, since to define Truth we have to deal with the concepts in relation to themselves and their opposites, like defining time in relation to itself, and defining existance in relation to existance and non-existance...

I don't know about Cris' post...

 

[TruthSeeker]

Juliette,

There is no God. We must indulge all of our desires, no matter how wicked, and no matter what the price.

And if someone's desire is to hurt you? Or to kill you? Or to harm you in any way? Would you like someone to do that? Why do you think yourself as so great? How are you different then anyone else? Really... look at yourself in a mirror... why do you worship yourself?

 

[Redoubtable]

Because I am so perfect.

 

[Redoubtable]

TruthSeeker: I'm pretty sure that if an atheist see a great miracle happen s/he will certainly believe that God exists...

There is a problem inherent in this statement: Miracles don't occur.

Also, Why is it that Christians even bother posting? It is impossible to persuade someone to convert by the use of words. ACTIONS are what truly compel other individuals.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Dam right! A torture chambers is all I need and I will be rendered a happy Evangeline.

 

[Lady]

** When is the last time you heard a pastor say at a funeral that some stiff went straight to hell? Yet if hell is not reserved for evil doers should we take venegance now?

 

[Jaxom]

Originally posted by Lady
Yet if hell is not reserved for evil doers should we take venegance now?

Is the fear of hell or some other banishment the only thing that gives you morality?

I would hope not.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Redoubtable,

Because I am so perfect.

Not really...

There is a problem inherent in this statement: Miracles don't occur.

Wrong... They do occur.

Also, Why is it that Christians even bother posting? It is impossible to persuade someone to convert by the use of words. ACTIONS are what truly compel other individuals.

We try anyways...

 

[crocodile d]

LOL

LL I was tickled by the humor of question 3 but I voted 4. It is just an old form of mind control used by the Church

 

[Lady]

Originally posted by Jaxom
Is the fear of hell or some other banishment the only thing that gives you morality?

I would hope not.

** Nah..... the Lord revealing his heart, that and only that, attracted me to examine his morality/character. Anyways, eradication of evil is just another revelation waiting to happen? I only ask to be a witness in a fortified distance..

 

[ElectricFetus]

Lady

I have nothing against religion as a means of creating good and moral citizens. I have deep respect for Buddha for example… even though I am an atheist.
My problem is genesis and creation mythology which causes people to put down the hard work of science. From what I have see many religious people seem to believe that science is trying to kill god, but this is not true. If you look at the philosophy of science you will see that what can not be proven can also not be disprove… this means that science can not disprove god’s existence... EVER! So you religious people can still believe in god and follow modern scientific theories at the same time. The after life is also out of science’s range in that science can never make a testable scenario to disprove the after life.

When religion tries to claim something that is within scientific analysis like genesis then we have problems.

By the way why is it that all the religous freaks I have seen on this forum all claim to be women, are women more likely to be belivers? why? seeing that the bible is rather sexist...

 

[Lady]

Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
Lady

I have nothing against religion as a means of creating good and moral citizens. I have deep respect for Buddha for example… even though I am an atheist.
My problem is genesis and creation mythology which causes people to put down the hard work of science. From what I have see many religious people seem to believe that science is trying to kill god, but this is not true. If you look at the philosophy of science you will see that what can not be proven can also not be disprove… this means that science can not disprove god’s existence... EVER! So you religious people can still believe in god and follow modern scientific theories at the same time.

** Science explores a creation that was here before we got here. So I find it hard to accept that one could be a scientist and atheist. Doesn't make any sense.

When religion tries to claim something that is within scientific analysis like genesis then we have problems.

**Has science ever compared human DNA with Snake's?
No, they went straight to a monkey.

By the way why is it that all the religous freaks I have seen on this forum all claim to be women, are women more likely to be belivers? why? seeing that the bible is rather sexist...

** God deals with the heart and one experience turns men's words into blah. I don't find sexism in him only pure love divine.

 

[MarcAC]

How can we 'know'? Faith!

Originally posted by wesmorris
Marcarc,

You seem to question reason and logic. Okay, that's valid I suppose.. but you say that faith in "god" or "jesus" or "the bible" should present more "weight" regarding any argument than reason?

How do you arrive at that conclusion if indeed that's an accurate assessment of your position? If not.. how can you reach the conclusion that christianity has any bearing on anything? Are we not indeed lost without reason (though it may not be accurate in the long run, how is it not the best route to attempt to understand)?

Sure, you're right.. even reason requires faith that reason is an appropriate tool by which to examine reality.. but okay... that's where I place my faith. Now what?

How can I be compelled to think that christianity (or any of its major competetors) has anything to do with anything? I'd hypothosize a bunch of things christianity is about, via reason.. but you probably wouldn't like my conclusions. What say you?

[color=-blue]Well you basically answered the questions you asked. I actually integrate science, logic, and religion - through logical reasoning, based on what is observed in reality, one ends with many paradoxes which more often than not represent ignorance about certain phenomena. The interesting thing is that most non-theists will always see a problem which crops up in religious doctrine as a contradiction [via short sighted rationale] when many times, when treated as paradoxes, these 'contradictions' can be resolved. But however, my main point is that there is no basis on 'truth' where one can definitely say scientific/logical or religious thinking are better methods of obtaining truth - the only way you can take a side is to excersises faith. In essence atheists think they are so very different from religious people - they don't realise that they are 'religious' themselves. And as a note - I abhor the word and concept of religion, though, I'm a Christian. I hate to be labeled as religious.[/color]

To add; Why do you think Jesus sooooo strrrreeeessed the importance of faith in the bible? He knew that without it you had nothing - in fact without faith in Him you do have nothing.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Well said...

 

[ElectricFetus]

Lady

We have compare the genomes of humans with that of yeast even (snake genome not completed of even attempted yet sorry )

The genome data has shown without a drought that we evolve.

Though I am atheist only because there is no evidence, but I do not reject the possibility. God could exist but so far I have only seen a universe that is ruled by simple laws and evolutionary randomness. Religious books such as the New/Old testament and the Koran were written by men and then translated and rewritten by men. Even if a infallible deity dictated to this men: the men were fallible and so the books since the beginning have suffered great distortions from the truth. If you have faith in a god I have nothing to say against you, but if you have faith in one of these books then I do disagree with you.

I could pull up quotes showing how sexist, curl and unloving god and the bible is but MarcAC would most likely disagree and explain by some means that the quotes have no context.

 

[Lady]

The genome data has shown without a dought that we evolve.


From what? There's always gaps in our minds, yet at some point, humans and animals had to have a origin. Understand people claim we evolved from monkey- I just don't agree. Human and Monkey can't reproduce? Throws the theory straight out the window. Yet the serpent was cursed and physically altered it also conversed with Eve.

 

[Jaxom]

Originally posted by Lady
There's always gape in our minds, yet at some point, humans and animals had to have a origin. Understand people claim we evolved from monkey- I just don't agree.

Me either, neither does evolutionary theory, which claims that humans and other primates have a common ancestor. Not that we come directly from apes. Each species is on separate branches, but as you follow the branches down in history, they come together a few at a time, until they all meet at the main trunk.

Human and Monkey can't reproduce? Throws the theory straight out the window.

No, it's the definition of species. We are not the same species as monkeys, so we cannot reproduce with them.

Yet the serpent was cursed and physically altered it also conversed with Eve.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Lady,

Obviously you lack a basic understanding of biology and genetics: I advice you go take or retake one of this classes before attempting to speak of this issue.

Most animals cannot breed with each other because they have grown to genetically distinct to make viable children. Humans and chimpanzee can not breed for example because humans have 46 chromosomes and Chimps have 48!, Any hybrid child would have a odd number of chromosomes and would most likely die immediately! Species form when two groups of the same species are separated and allowed to breed on their own for a long period of time. Take the horse and the donkey which can have a hybrid child (a mule) but mules are sterile, thus making horses and donkeys separate species. If horses and donkeys were created then how would they be able make a mule in the first place?

If you want a detailed explanation about how genomic evidence shows how all life is related to a common ancestor then ask… but I warn you that the explanation will be long, wordy and most of all will contain a lot of scientific terminology!

 

[Lady]

Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
Lady,

Obviously you lack a basic understanding of biology and genetics: I advice you go take or retake one of this classes before attempting to speak of this issue.

Most animals cannot breed with each other because they have grown to genetically distinct to make viable children. Humans and chimpanzee can not breed for example because humans have 46 chromosomes and Chimps have 48!, Any hybrid child would have a odd number of chromosomes and would most likely die immediately! Species form when two groups of the same species are separated and allowed to breed on their own for a long period of time. Take the horse and the donkey which can have a hybrid child (a mule) but mules are sterile, thus making horses and donkeys separate species. If horses and donkeys were created then how would they be able make a mule in the first place?

** So two monkey's having fun made a human? Musta been all kinda gossip in the jungle? And sure I could use another biology class but no thank you. But ponder this, Our so called ancestors are still swinging on trees. Is evolution that unkind? However sex came about it took thought between two intelligent species capable of continious reproduction. Thus another species closely related to the original creation. As far as the two, Humans is definately one of them, anyways just for kicks perhaps we should impregnate a woman with snake semen. See if we get the beast from The Garden of Eden...... but then again it was cursed