God...who believes?

Do you believe a God/Gods/Higher Being exists?

  • Total voters
    46
Lori,

keep in mind that i'm not religious
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and believe me when i say that i understand why you are reluctant to believe in christ
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If your a christian, you are religious.

This is my only issue with you. You keep referring to a belief system and then claim your not religious.

When you do so, you are saying that the god you are connecting with is a specific god that is indicated in the bible.

But if your are not religious, then what god is it, is it a god, do you know for sure.

You can't say your not religious, and then keep referring to religious text to confirm what the god is.

All of your theories or what you claim you know is going to happen revolve around the bible, and yet you continue to claim you are not religious.

:shrug:
 
MZ3Boy84 said:
I don't think that she does expect us to believe the same.
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Yeah. She's not, as far as I can tell, actually trying to convert us or convince us to think the same as her.
She's just asking us to try to see it from her perspective and understand where she's coming from.
 
jpappl said:
Lori,





If your a christian, you are religious.

This is my only issue with you. You keep referring to a belief system and then claim your not religious.

When you do so, you are saying that the god you are connecting with is a specific god that is indicated in the bible.

But if your are not religious, then what god is it, is it a god, do you know for sure.

You can't say your not religious, and then keep referring to religious text to confirm what the god is.

All of your theories or what you claim you know is going to happen revolve around the bible, and yet you continue to claim you are not religious.

:shrug:
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One can believe in any doctrine and not necessarily be religious. I believe in Buddhism, however I am far from religious or devout.
 
jpappl said:
Lori,





If your a christian, you are religious.

This is my only issue with you. You keep referring to a belief system and then claim your not religious.

When you do so, you are saying that the god you are connecting with is a specific god that is indicated in the bible.

But if your are not religious, then what god is it, is it a god, do you know for sure.

You can't say your not religious, and then keep referring to religious text to confirm what the god is.

All of your theories or what you claim you know is going to happen revolve around the bible, and yet you continue to claim you are not religious.

:shrug:
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i'm not indoctrinated, i don't go to a church, i don't practice rituals and such for the most part. i've had spiritual experiences that have taught me things.

that's not religious.
 
It depends on how you define a religion. If you look at entirely from the standpoint of practices, of rites and rituals, then you probably would not be described as religious.

But I do not define a religion in that narrow of terms; and presumably neither do most people, including jpappl.
I don't know about him, but I look at it as applied philosophy; a systematic way of living and thinking.
 
But not everyone who believes in a religion is unable to think for themselves. Yes, they are few and far between, especially here in America, but free-thinking people of faith do exist.
 
Hapsburg,

I don't know about him, but I look at it as applied philosophy; a systematic way of living and thinking.
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Exactly, which is how most that are religious are. Many if not most christians that don't go to church still think of themselves as christian.

They believe in a specific god presented in the bible.


MZ3Boy84

But not everyone who believes in a religion is unable to think for themselves.
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That is not the issue for Lori. Basically, she is using the bible as the basis for this god that is contacting or communicating with her. Everything is Jesus this and the bible that. So how is she not claiming that the god is not a specific god and that she is not religious.

She is religious because she is using a specific ideological interpretation of god.

Lori,

i'm not indoctrinated, i don't go to a church, i don't practice rituals and such for the most part. i've had spiritual experiences that have taught me things.

that's not religious.
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Most would say having spiritual experiences is a religious experience but it doesn't have to be.

The fact that you don't go to church and practice their rituals just means that you don't want to be preached to.

But your basing your belief system on the god in the bible.

That's religious.
 
jpappl said:
MZ3Boy84



That is not the issue for Lori. Basically, she is using the bible as the basis for this god that is contacting or communicating with her. Everything is Jesus this and the bible that. So how is she not claiming that the god is not a specific god and that she is not religious.

She is religious because she is using a specific ideological interpretation of god.
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I understand that, yet she also claims direct personal experience as reasons for her faith and beliefs. That in itself is something no one can refute or confirm since the burden of proof lies purely with her. Therefore, (sorry Lori) it holds no weight either way.

The problem, rather the major factor, is that everyone has their own ideologies of who, what, where, when, why and how God is. One can be a Christian and have a completely different view of God than the Christian sitting next to them. It is all relative and all based on personal and interpersonal experience. It is all perspective.

For example, I as a Buddhist can say that I choose to believe and practice Buddhism because that is where I find happiness. No one else can judge that except for me. The same applies to everyone, regardless of faith or doctrine.

Nevertheless, it is all irrelevant as long as it is kept personal and not forced onto others, which again I find that Lori abides by.

The question as to if and how that makes or does not make Lori religious is again, not for anyone else to define because it is all perspective.

Some may call me religious or pious; I do not.

So in essence, the entire discussion in regards to the definition of the word "religious" is flawed and holds no weight.
 
MZ3Boy84

I understand that, yet she also claims direct personal experience as reasons for her faith and beliefs.
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Which is why I am questioning it. Her claim to not be religious is bunk when she keeps referencing the biblical texts.

One can be a Christian and have a completely different view of God than the Christian sitting next to them
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I disagree. You can believe in god and not follow any one religion, but if your a christian you believe in the same god as other christians. That is what religion is for.

For example, I as a Buddhist can say that I choose to believe and practice Buddhism because that is where I find happiness. No one else can judge that except for me. The same applies to everyone, regardless of faith or doctrine.

Nevertheless, it is all irrelevant as long as it is kept personal and not forced onto others, which again I find that Lori abides by.
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This is a different issue. I am not questioning her tactics.

The question as to if and how that makes or does not make Lori religious is again, not for anyone else to define because it is all perspective.
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No, she claimed not to be religious, then she uses the bible as her source as to what and why things are going to happen. Bad things apparently.

So I am questioning it.

Many people feel that they will be treated or viewed differently if they don't claim to be religious or non-religious depending on the situation.

Basically what has to be understood here is that what she is actually claiming is the biblical god is real. Not some god, but the biblical god, that is who is connecting to her. Everytime she references the bible to support her position, that is what she is claiming because she is also claiming an interaction with said god.

Her problem is that if she truly is not religious, then what god or who's god is it ? or, is it a god at all ?

She has not offered an answer for that.
 
MZ3Boy84 said:
But not everyone who believes in a religion is unable to think for themselves. Yes, they are few and far between, especially here in America, but free-thinking people of faith do exist.
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Nor did any of us say that there aren't free-thinking religious people, or that religious people are all indoctrinated.
Indoctrination and religion aren't inherently tied together.
 
Hapsburg said:
Nor did any of us say that there aren't free-thinking religious people, or that religious people are all indoctrinated.
Indoctrination and religion aren't inherently tied together.
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ooooooook........ well, I'm not arguing with anyone. I guess I just don't full understand the debate... :shrug:
 
MZ3Boy84 said:
But not everyone who believes in a religion is unable to think for themselves. Yes, they are few and far between, especially here in America, but free-thinking people of faith do exist.
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how the hell do you know? did you take a survey of people? you have surveyed people all ove rthe world or talking out of your ass?
 
jpappl said:
MZ3Boy84



Which is why I am questioning it. Her claim to not be religious is bunk when she keeps referencing the biblical texts.



I disagree. You can believe in god and not follow any one religion, but if your a christian you believe in the same god as other christians. That is what religion is for.



This is a different issue. I am not questioning her tactics.



No, she claimed not to be religious, then she uses the bible as her source as to what and why things are going to happen. Bad things apparently.

So I am questioning it.

Many people feel that they will be treated or viewed differently if they don't claim to be religious or non-religious depending on the situation.

Basically what has to be understood here is that what she is actually claiming is the biblical god is real. Not some god, but the biblical god, that is who is connecting to her. Everytime she references the bible to support her position, that is what she is claiming because she is also claiming an interaction with said god.

Her problem is that if she truly is not religious, then what god or who's god is it ? or, is it a god at all ?

She has not offered an answer for that.
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jpappl,

the bible is not the basis for what i know. i know what i do because of the experiences i've had and messages i've been given. there was a point where god told me to open the bible and read the book of revelations. when i got to the story of the woman and the dragon, i had a very intense spiritual interaction. after that, all of this prophecy revelation in the form of messages flooded my mind like a whirlwind. i would have never read the bible if i hadn't been instructed to do so that night. i was actually right in the middle of a transcendental writing and was experiencing manifestations and physical symptoms of that which all of my attention had been focused on. it happens this way, and you're not paying attention to what i'm saying about the dynamic. what i experience "just happens" to be substantiated by scripture.

god says "put the letter down and go get your bible and read the book of revelations".

then god proceeds to interpret a bunch of prophecy in it to me.

the experiences i have are enacting that revelation.

god could have very well not done that. god could have directed me towards another religious text, or no text at all. god's used many other things to communicate with me including his voice in my head, interactions with other people, movies, music, and literature.

this isn't me saying, "well i'm a christian, so all i'm willing to look at and consider and accept is what it says in the bible."

i've said it before...i have no preconceived notions, and no agenda in regards to the bible or in regards to religion. all i've ever asked for is the truth. so if god chooses to reference the bible, and if the truth that he gives me through experience is substantiated by it, then that's up to god, not me. AND things that god has told me, and the way i've gone about experiencing these things are not readily accepted by religious people at all. these interpretations are extremely unconventional. what god has explained to me about religion most religious people would not want to hear. god doesn't like religion.
 
jpappl said:
Hapsburg,

Lori,



Most would say having spiritual experiences is a religious experience but it doesn't have to be.

The fact that you don't go to church and practice their rituals just means that you don't want to be preached to.

But your basing your belief system on the god in the bible.

That's religious.
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no, religion is a man-made institution. a spirit is just that. spirits are not a part of the institution. if they interact with me, it has nothing to do with an institution of men and of doctrine.

i don't mind listening to sermons. i've heard a good many that are absolute heresitical bullshit, and i've heard a good many that have helped me quite a bit. BUT, preaching and books is not my source of understanding. my source of understanding is the spirit, and like i've repeated many times, the spirit has used many different things, most of which are not of religion, to teach me.

i don't have a "belief system". i have experienced things in my life that have given me understanding and development. it just so happens that the things i've experienced and the understanding and development i've received, jives with scripture. THAT is why i think the bible is the word of god. it's not the other way around, that i decided the bible was the word of god, so that's all i'll consider to be true. it doesn't even work that way (also substantiated by scripture). if you do it backwards, you're not going to get the truth out of it because the bible is to be interpreted by the spirit. if you look at the stories of people in the bible, obviously they didn't get their information from a book, they were spiritually led. they experienced god in the same way that i have.
 
Enmos said:
If it wasn't for religion there wouldn't be a whole lot of people that believed in God.
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there wouldn't be a whole lot of people who didn't believe in god either.

i bet that religion turns off just as many people as it turns on, and ultimately, religion is not the answer anyway. being religious doesn't get you anywhere with god.
 
Enmos said:
Huh? That doesn't compute..

If there aren't any people that believe in God, then everyone doesn't believe in God.
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i'm just saying that religion first of all, turns a lot of people away from god. i for example have thought before, "gee, if god is like a lot of religious people, i don't want anything to do with him". they also misinterpret and misrepresent god and their own doctrine. plus, being religious is a fucking drag man! a lot of people want their lives to be a drag apparently, but i would say they might as well join a country club as a religion if they want something to do. second of all, being religious does not do anything to bring you closer to god or bring about a relationship with him. religion doesn't do that for you, and it doesn't take the place of that relationship. and what's dangerous is that catholicism in particular represents that it does, and many, many people think it does. it seems that so many religious people think that they're religion is the key. it's not the key. the key is the sincerety and humility it takes to have a personal relationship with god. this doesn't happen within the 4 walls of a temple or in practicing rituals or by studying a book, or by professing to believe something that you really have no idea is true or not.

so...
religion can turn you away from god.
religion doesn't get you closer to god.
religion can act as a substitute for a relationship with god (which is a lie).

none of these things are good, or perpetuate people knowing god.
 
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