That was enmos's definition, I was quoting
God...who believes?
- Thread starter Thoreau
- Start date
That was enmos's definition, I was quoting
But we don't 'know', our perceptions are true. I don't care how strong you believe, that is not knowing. You might believe you know, but that isn't knowing neither.
Having many options makes more sence to me, then to rely on one unproven explaination.
You already have proven to me that you would never change your mind on what you believe, so even if new knowledge became available, you wouldn't likely believe the knowledge, you'd still take the belief. Your belief is your only door, therefor you can't afford to think it is possibly wrong. I understand, I just wish you could see it for what it is. That is Blind Faith, in your perceptions of what you believe in.
Trust when I say that god blew me away. If he wanted me to know something else he would have shown me something else.
I don't know or understand all there is to know but I do understand what's relevant to me now.
This stuff is confirmed to me by my life and the world around me every day.
Would you rather I lie? Would you rather I arbitrarily adopt someone elses perception? How could or why would I even do that?
I don't know or understand all there is to know but I do understand what's relevant to me now.
This stuff is confirmed to me by my life and the world around me every day.
Would you rather I lie? Would you rather I arbitrarily adopt someone elses perception? How could or why would I even do that?
I don't want you to lie, I want you to keep other options available.
I don't want you to change your beliefs, just to admit that they are just one of many possiblities.
It worries me when people believe so strongly in their perceptions of what they believe they know, that they only think their perceptions are possible and that other explainations don't get explored.
What is confirmed by your life and your world is more of your perceptions.
PS Lori,
#1 - Even though we are kinda just going back and forth with the same stuff, I do appreciate your percpectives. Most religious minds don't like talking about this stuff, and you appear to not mind at all. I appreciate it. Even if you say you know based on your perceptions of your experiences,
.#2 - I'm happy that you are happy. I'm glad you have found whatever it is you were looking for. But I am concerned that you haven't explored enough options.
Everybodies strong belief in unknowns concerns me, and strong beliefs can be in many unknowns. Religion isn't the only thing that I have concerns about, but religions do seem to promote faith without proof more than any other institution that I know of.
I don't want you to lie, I want you to keep other options available.
I don't want you to change your beliefs, just to admit that they are just one of many possiblities.
It worries me when people believe so strongly in their perceptions of what they believe they know, that they only think their perceptions are possible and that other explainations don't get explored.
What is confirmed by your life and your world is more of your perceptions.
PS Lori,
#1 - Even though we are kinda just going back and forth with the same stuff, I do appreciate your percpectives. Most religious minds don't like talking about this stuff, and you appear to not mind at all. I appreciate it. Even if you say you know based on your perceptions of your experiences,
#2 - I'm happy that you are happy. I'm glad you have found whatever it is you were looking for. But I am concerned that you haven't explored enough options.
Everybodies strong belief in unknowns concerns me, and strong beliefs can be in many unknowns. Religion isn't the only thing that I have concerns about, but religions do seem to promote faith without proof more than any other institution that I know of.
keep in mind that i'm not religious. i'm sure that god has plenty more surprises in store for me. see, my ONLY option is god himself. and believe me when i say that i understand why you are reluctant to believe in christ. my experiences have been laden with so much unconventional revelation, i couldn't have made this stuff up, or preconceived of this in a million years or with the imagination of the world's greatest artist. and it might make you a bit more comfortable to know that most religious people don't want to hear about what's happened to me, and my perspectives because of it, any more than most atheists. most religious people are in for an unpleasant surprise.
If as you say, God has paid you a personal visit, then you can no longer be classed as a believer. To suggest that you believe it was God who visited you implies doubt. It either was or wasn't God. Which one is it?
i've had other spirits "visit" me. spirits of humans, and i'm not sure who it was or what it was that i channeled during the transcendental writing. god on the other hand gives me messages. sometimes i hear god's voice in my head, like some kind of telepathy, or spiritual communication. sometimes god seems to manipulate my environment in the most amazing ways to impart a message or some type of understanding. but i don't think i've ever felt some spiritual presence of god in my surroundings. not like i did with the humans.
god is the only one who would be capable of imparting the understanding he has given me using a variety of means, and through a variety of experiences.
Still need to know if you are 100% sure that it is God sending you messages. If so then you are no longer a believer. You can't believe in something when you know it for certain.
I will take it one step further. If anyone answered yes in the poll and are absolutely certain your bible contains the word of God then you are also not a believer.
ok then, i'm not a believer. i'm a knower.
Started new thread on the subject.
Well I guess since you don't believe in anything outside of nature it doesn't apply.
Knowing is not a private state of understanding.
Knowing is so a private state. It's also a public state.
How many things do you know that you've never mentioned to anyone? How many things have you mentioned and made public, and were they already public knowledge? How often have you mentioned the sun is up in the sky, which is certainly publicly available knowledge?
Understanding is the same thing, how many things have you realized, then understood later (say 10 years later)?
Personally yet publicly, I can attest to at least one realization where this has happened to me (it was a biggie, had to do with understanding myself).
Oh incidentally, I know what this realization was now, and have for some time. I also believe I know what it is/was. So apparently I can't do this? How come I do it then (and I haven't gone crazy with intentional deluded thinking)?
How many things do you know that you've never mentioned to anyone? How many things have you mentioned and made public, and were they already public knowledge? How often have you mentioned the sun is up in the sky, which is certainly publicly available knowledge?
Understanding is the same thing, how many things have you realized, then understood later (say 10 years later)?
Personally yet publicly, I can attest to at least one realization where this has happened to me (it was a biggie, had to do with understanding myself).
Oh incidentally, I know what this realization was now, and have for some time. I also believe I know what it is/was. So apparently I can't do this? How come I do it then (and I haven't gone crazy with intentional deluded thinking)?
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it is when it's based on a private experience. are you telling me that if i'm all alone and a brick falls off a building and onto my head that i don't know that?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
I'm pretty sure you won't know that then
that was funny.
Thoreau
Valued Senior Member
Ya know, for being a Theist, I think Lori has got the most open-minded point of view here. She has her beliefs, does not impose them on anyone, allows others to believe what thou wilt, and acts compassionately towards others despite differences in belief.
She's got my respect.
She's got my respect.
Me too, I like Lori, but she can't really expect us to believe the same things she does based only on the force of her personality.