yeah, i didn't realize that you couldn't believe things you knew. i guess the terms are mutually exclusive.
God...who believes?
- Thread starter Thoreau
- Start date
yeah, i didn't realize that you couldn't believe things you knew. i guess the terms are mutually exclusive.
Do words need to 'lead' anywhere? They exist to convey a meaning. Supernatural phenomena are events that we can't explain and/or don't make sense to us at the present moment. The term used to apply to lightning and rainbows, and now applies more readily to the origin of our universe.
Anyway, let's not get bogged down in semantics. My original point was that we cannot possibly know if God(s) exist or not. They may be in numerous unimagined forms, anywhere in the universe.
I disagree.
The truth is absolute and, although it may sound obvious, completely true. Whether we are living in some computer-simulated universe, or whether there is really a vengeful yet forgiving God watching our every move, we will probably never be able to know for certain. That is because we are not objective observers but flawed human beings; knowingly ignorant of many things, probably unconsciously ignorant of many more. Subjective truth is what we perceive to be true. This can, and does, change from person to person. You only need to observe the thousands of conflicting religions, cults, faiths and philosophies in the world to see this in action. And who knows whether any of them at all are even close to the reality.
i don't have proof for others. that's the beauty of it.
Thoreau
Valued Senior Member
Ok. So if I said I have a flying monkey, but had no proof to show you. What would you think?
I respect you for having your faith if it makes you happy. Yet at the same time, I find a bit of hypocrisy in faith; not just your's but anyone's.
Like I said, you can believe whatever in the world you care to believe. But I think the main message is respect. If I believe that I have a flying monkey, you don't have to agree. Just leave me be because it's what makes me happy, right? But the hypocrisy presents itself when two people with different beliefs try to prove the each other wrong when there is no proof either way.
(I'm saying this to you, but not to you if that makes sense. In essence, I am using you to prove a point to others.)
i agree with you. and honestly, i don't assume people are lying unless i know them and know them to be liars. i don't assume people are insane unless it's been diagnosed. i also don't assume that i know all there is to know, or that i have experienced all there is to experience, or what others have experienced. and even if i had, i wouldn't assume two people to interpret their experiences the exact same way. when it comes to god, it's obviously about perceptions and people see what they want to see. i guess that's what god has to work with. i don't have an agenda and i decided a long time ago that i wanted the truth, no matter what it was. and i think god gives me the knowledge i need.
god is contra ego.
So you BELIEVE in God, you do not know. Your own words recognize that everyone perceives experiences differently, and how you perceive your experiences might be truth to you, but it still is unknown. Without proof, no one knows, they just have opinions. Many different experiences can influence our opinions, but we still need proof to know.
My biggest question would be do you perceive this God as the creator of everything, or is 'it' the specific creator of us.
Just currious if you perception of God is what I might perceive as a possible alien, singularity, or something else unknown to me.
So you BELIEVE in God, you do not know. Your own words recognize that everyone perceives experiences differently, and how you perceive your experiences might be truth to you, but it still is unknown. Without proof, no one knows, they just have opinions. Many different experiences can influence our opinions, but we still need proof to know.
My biggest question would be do you perceive this God as the creator of everything, or is 'it' the specific creator of us.
Just currious if you perception of God is what I might perceive as a possible alien, singularity, or something else unknown to me.
I believe in God. I say that God is what is unknown, but that he is real because of so many different (this is anslems position) ideas about his existance. For example ...hahaha..... In fact the entire epistemologicial entraprise is always concerned with an unknowing. I am not aware of a firm epistemological foundation which says that god does not exist.
So you BELIEVE in God, you do not know. Your own words recognize that everyone perceives experiences differently, and how you perceive your experiences might be truth to you, but it still is unknown. Without proof, no one knows, they just have opinions. Many different experiences can influence our opinions, but we still need proof to know.
My biggest question would be do you perceive this God as the creator of everything, or is 'it' the specific creator of us.
Just currious if you perception of God is what I might perceive as a possible alien, singularity, or something else unknown to me.
I KNOW what I have experienced. My belief comes in with the meaning and development that is a direct result of the experience. In regards to my belief in a creator, god has the ability to manipulate my environment in every aspect, and knows me better than I know myself, and has developed me in ways that are most beneficial. In regards to the bible, my experience has enlightened me and provided understanding of scripture, not the other way around. I've received biblical prophecy revelatipn, and my experiences seem to be enacting the prophecy. When I was younger, I didn't want the bible to be true, because of a lack of understanding on my part and the misinterpretations and misrepresentations of religion. Now, because of what I've experienced and the meaning behind it, I can't deny it.
Let's take a common terminology; do you believe in dinosaurs.
One can answer no, without doubting the their existence.
If you believe in your spouse, freind, politician, etc... it doesn't
mean you believe they exist, it means you believe in them.
jan.
You know what you experience??? Not really, we all have different perceptions of expereinces. Yes the experiences are very real, but how we percieve those experiences is not real knowledge, if we still don't know. Our perceptions and beliefs does not mean we know. We might think we know things we don't at times, but to know, we need proof.
Yes beliefs do come directly from our experiences and how we perceive those experiences, but since we can't be sure if our perceptions are in fact correct, it is healthy to keep many doors open. Strong beliefs don't allow us to open other doors, cause we only can see one truth.
The bible, is a man made book written along time ago. Do you believe so strongly in primative mans perceptions? There were many different perceptions from our ancestors, not just the bible, but many fantastic stories were told. Dramatic events that influenced our ancestors are probable, but the way our ancestors percieved those events doesn't make there perceptions the truth!
I find trying to read between the lines in the bible fun. I try to understand what was really going on, to make man percieve such stories. And I look for many possible explainations
.So you mean "trust"? I equate that to "faith". Lol...
You know what you experience??? Not really, we all have different perceptions of expereinces. Yes the experiences are very real, but how we percieve those experiences is not real knowledge, if we still don't know. Our perceptions and beliefs does not mean we know. We might think we know things we don't at times, but to know, we need proof.
Yes beliefs do come directly from our experiences and how we perceive those experiences, but since we can't be sure if our perceptions are in fact correct, it is healthy to keep many doors open. Strong beliefs don't allow us to open other doors, cause we only can see one truth.
The bible, is a man made book written along time ago. Do you believe so strongly in primative mans perceptions? There were many different perceptions from our ancestors, not just the bible, but many fantastic stories were told. Dramatic events that influenced our ancestors are probable, but the way our ancestors percieved those events doesn't make there perceptions the truth!
I find trying to read between the lines in the bible fun. I try to understand what was really going on, to make man percieve such stories. And I look for many possible explainations
I have experienced things in my life that are very real, yet just as "fantastic" as the tales in the bible. I'm not relying on the book or the perceptions of men who wrote it. I am relying on god himself and my own perception, which I think you would have to agree is the most sound thing to do.
Isn't faith integral, period.
How do you know you are in contact with God, and
not some powerful being?
jan.
