Genetics Vs Mormonism & Creationism

PEOPLE associated with religion propagate ignorance, oppression, and fear. religion itself does not.

And what is religion but the belief in supernatural powers that control human destiny. Without people, religion wouldn't exist.

How are your rights infringed upon by thought?

Is it not theist thought that has run the world for many centuries?
 
as I stated before, if you say religion infringes on your rights in any way, you're a liar, unless of course you are a sociopath, or a psychopath, maybe even an axe murderer or serial killer or a child molester?

What are you talking about? Have you been living in a cave? Do you not think that those in power don't use their faith based ideals in their decision making process? Get a grip.
 
I think I've given enough links in this and other threads to explanatory websites on why DNA evidence doesn't disprove the Book of Mormon. Look them up--do a search for my user name, if you want.

As for myself, it's only an academic issue of passing interest, because I already know without a doubt that the Book of Mormon is true, independent of the DNA issue.
 
 
Marlin said:
Here they are again:

Does DNA Evidence Refute the Book of Mormon?
DNA and the Book of Mormon
Dr. Scott Woodward: DNA and the Book of Mormon
Is An Historical Book of Mormon Incompatible with DNA Science?
A Brief Review of Murphy and Southerton's "Galileo Event"
The Tempest in a Teapot: DNA Studies and the Book of Mormon
The Problematic Role of DNA Testing in Unraveling Human History
A Few Thoughts from a Believing DNA Scientist
Who Are the Children of Lehi?
Genetic Markers Not a Valid Test of Native Identity
Before DNA
Interpreting the DNA Data and the Book of Mormon Part I
Interpreting the DNA Data and the Book of Mormon Part II
Interpreting the DNA Data and the Book of Mormon Part III
DNA and the Book of Mormon: A Phylogenetic Perspective
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And we've already told you why such apologies were invalid, spammer.
 
Trilairian said:
And we've already told you why such apologies were invalid, spammer.
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"We"? Who is "we"?

LOL, calling me a spammer for referring you to relevant websites, eh? Methinks I'm dealing with someone who has less than a full deck of cards.
 
Insults don't substitute equivelently for a valid argument Marlin. Yes you are spamming by repeating link posts already invalidated, and Q no he doesn't.
 
WildBlueYonder said:
Marlin said:
We don't even know that Lehi was Jewish, nor the genetic makeup of those with whom he went to America. If we don't know at least that much, how in the world can we extrapolate the Lehi party's makeup? It's sheer speculation to try.
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for a mormon, you need to read your own source documents; Lehi was of the tribe of "Joseph" according to the BoM,
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For an anti-Mormon, you need to recognize the difference between "Jewish" and "Israelite." Jewish means "of the tribe of Judah," which was only one of the twelve tribes. "Israelite" includes people from all twelve tribes. Lehi was Israelite, but that doesn't mean he was Jewish.
 
(Q) said:
And what is religion but the belief in supernatural powers that control human destiny. Without people, religion wouldn't exist.
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ok, i worded that incorrectly, because yes, i see how religion would not exist with out people. it's that whole "some people spoil it for others" philosophy. some people are idiots, religious zealots, psychotic killers, power-hungry overlords, and closed-minded - or any combination of the five. i'll be the first to admit that people rarely practice what they preach. what i am trying to say is that there are those of us out here that quietly believe in something bigger, and follow what they believe is right while observing a moral code. do you really think that benevolence, altruism, and morality do not exist in people?
(Q) said:
Is it not theist thought that has run the world for many centuries?
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yes, it has. but once again, any thought can become dangerous in the minds of someone who wants to use it destructively. any thought can become a motivation to power for those who seek it. and any thought can become nothing at all.
 
do you really think that benevolence, altruism, and morality do not exist in people?

Yes, without the need for religion, of course.

yes, it has. but once again, any thought can become dangerous in the minds of someone who wants to use it destructively. any thought can become a motivation to power for those who seek it. and any thought can become nothing at all.

It is theist thought that controls the decision making process, which has shaped and formed our societies over the centuries that resulted in those idiots, zealots, killers, overlords and the close-minded. This is the same thought process that commands allegiance to invisible beings over fellow men, precludes reality for fantasy and sets living standards towards a non-existent afterlife.
 
Trilairian, let's just agree to disagree. It's gotten down to the point where we're just making assertions that neither of us can prove to the other. You cannot destroy my faith and I cannot enlighten your wilfull ignorance.
 
Marlin said:
Trilairian, let's just agree to disagree. It's gotten down to the point where we're just making assertions that neither of us can prove to the other. You cannot destroy my faith and I cannot enlighten your wilfull ignorance.
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Lets just agree to dissagree and then you insult me? No.
 
Marlin said:
Originally Posted by Jeff Lindsay
The Book of Mormon has come under heavy fire from critics in light of DNA evidence that is said to utterly refute the Book of Mormon, for the evidence points to Asiatic origins, not Middle Eastern origins of the ancient inhabitants of this continent. These attacks typically rely on several faulty assumptions about what the Book of Mormon actually states and do not refute a divine origin for the Book of Mormon. The DNA "proof" has very little to do with the authenticity of the Book of Mormon.
Of the various men and women in three different Old World groups who came to the Americas according to the Book of Mormon, we can only safely state that one of them, Mulek, was definitely Jewish, but we still do not know what kind of DNA he carried. Lehi was somehow descended from Manasseh, but that does not specify what kind of Y-chromosome he had. We have no clue about the genetic origins of his wife or the other individuals that came with him. We know nothing about the genetic origins of others in Mulek's party or the people they almost certainly intermarried with in the Americas. We know nothing about the Jaredites, though they probably originated from Central Asia. The DNA they contributed to the Americas could have looked like Asiatic DNA. Given the uncertainty in the genetic origins of the groups mentioned in the Book of Mormon, one cannot claim that genetic evidence has somehow disproved the Book of Mormon
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That's a good quote Marlin.


Anyone who has read the book, knows it talks about VARIOUS groups of inhabitants. I don't see how this topic can keep going. Since the data necessary to solidify any conclusion, isn't available to us.

The BoM claims people came to the Americas and bred. Along with other peoples that were already in the Americas. Some sailed off towards the west sea (asia), and did their thing there. Later another group comes the americas, mixes in again...................................................................................

"And it came to pass that Hagoth, he being an exceedingly curious man, therefore he went forth and built him an exceedingly large ship, on the borders of the land Bountiful, by the land Desolation, and launched it forth into the west sea, by the narrow neck which led into the land northward."


That's great that joe shmo DNA from 2,000 AD doesn't show any similarity to another joe shmo 2,000 AD.

There is no basis for comparison that can even get close to what the book is talking about. Unless they have a cryogenic clinics where bodies have been stored from all the different tribes of people that settled.
 
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I'll bet that 99% of the people accusing the Book of Mormon as being false due to DNA studies, have never picked up or read the book at all. Yet they have almost a fanatical religious fervor, some of them, in the name of DNA science's discoveries. They proclaim that their god, Science, has proven the true God's revelations wrong, even when it is shown to have done no such thing.
 
Trilairian said:
Of course he wasn't because he didn't exist.
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that's beside the point (it's a given),

mormonism's problem for me, is that it was created during recent historic times (after the printing press) & close enough in time to have preserved several "foundation" documents, like the 'Book of Abraham' papyrus, facsimiles of founders' notes, pioneer diaries & early non-corrected editions of the 'Book of Mormon' (disproving the LDS hypothesis of "most correct book on earth"), so that it has 'real' history to prove or disprove it.

J. Smith didn't get the memo that Native Peoples of the Western Hemisphere were descented from Asians by way of Siberia
see:
http://www.signaturebooks.com/Losing.htm
For the past 175 years, the Latter-day Saint (Mormon) church has taught that Native Americans and Polynesians are descended from ancient seafaring Israelites. Recent DNA research confirms what anthropologists have been saying for nearly as many years, that Native Americans are originally from Siberia and Polynesians from Southeast Asia.
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Also, poor J. Smith didn't get the memo that Champollion had deciphered Egyptian hieroglyphics in 1822, thus giving old Joe the idea to use the term "Reformed Egyptian" for the language of the BoM people.
see: http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9022364
Champollion at last began to piece together the puzzle of the hieroglyphics. In 1821–22 he started publishing papers on the hieroglyphic and hieratic elements of the Rosetta Stone
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And he didn't get the memo that modern archeology was being formed soon, being transformed from "antiquarian’ treasure' hunters" to actual scientific historians
see:
http://www.nps.gov/hocu/adhi/adhi1c.htm
Archeology began moving from an antiquarian footing to a professional discipline in the late nineteenth century. The discipline eagerly embraced Darwinian evolution. In the U.S., Moundbuilder studies were eclipsed by the impressive Southwestern ruins.
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Trilairian said:
Of course you want him to be Asian, but thats rediculous.
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even if Marlin won't admitt it, the source document for mormonism, the "Book of Mormon" states that at least one of the so-called founders was from the Israelish tribe of Joseph
 
Marlin said:
I'll bet that 99% of the people accusing the Book of Mormon as being false due to DNA studies,
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not just, there are about 100 diff reasons; including DNA; tech for one, languages for another, list of domesticated & wild animals sopposedly here or brought here by them, flora, metalurgy, etc
have never picked up or read the book at all. Yet they have almost a fanatical religious fervor, some of them, in the name of DNA science's discoveries.
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ugh, for a so-called abrigment, its to quote Mark Twain, "chloryform in print"
They proclaim that their god, Science, has proven the true God's revelations wrong, even when it is shown to have done no such thing.
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science is only a small part, God proclaims the BoM false, by condemning its so-called 'prophet' J. Smith, for his many false prophecies
 
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