Genetics Vs Mormonism & Creationism

[Marlin]

WildBlueYonder, I read the Bible every day, thank you very much. I recently finished the Old Testament and the four Gospels, and am currently reading 2 Corinthians. I have already found my Savior, don't worry. He is the Christ of the Bible and the Christ of the Book of Mormon, one and the same.

Attack Joseph Smith all you want. Did you know that you are fulfilling a prophecy Moroni made about Joseph Smith when you try to tear him down? Namely, that Joseph's name should be both good and evil spoken of among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and peoples.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

WildBlueYonder, I read the Bible every day, thank you very much.

good for you, its a good start

I have already found my Savior, don't worry. He is the Christ of the Bible and the Christ of the Book of Mormon, one and the same.

ahh, if that were true buckeroo, it would make things so much simpler, why muslims would be christians & mooonies, & JW's too, why lets go skip hand-in-hand down to the mosque, my young naive friend

Attack Joseph Smith all you want. Did you know that you are fulfilling a prophecy Moroni made about Joseph Smith when you try to tear him down?

me!!!???? you're the one calling into question his veracity, I'm just pointing out that with that goes his so-called "prophethood"

anyway, I think J. Smith was a genius after a fashion; why who could put together a religion "whole cloth", write a 'holy' book , add his peccadilloes into it & get millions of people to believe its true? Mohammad comes to mind, L. Ron Hubbard too.


byw, I like J. Smith's sense of humor, naming an angel "moron'I"

 

[Marlin]

me!!!???? you're the one calling into question his veracity, I'm just pointing out that with that goes his so-called "prophethood"

No, I am not questioning Joseph Smith's prophethood. Prophets do not know everything, and they are not infallible. They are human beings with their own beliefs and opinions, and when they are not speaking for the Lord, they may express these beliefs and opinions as fallible men. A prophet is only a prophet when he is acting as such. The rest of the time he is a normal man.

 

[(Q)]

if you don't know, then you're even lying to yourself

Ah, just blowing smoke out your ass, as I suspected, sfb.

 

[Trilairian]

trilairian -

why do you seek to disprove all religion?

Seeking? I have already disproved the religions I have discussed. If you found out that virtually every war around you, the societal oppressions around you, the inhibition of scientific progress around you, the abuse of animals, the demeaning of women, racial conflict, abortions, burnt written knowledge, justification of revenge, murders of "infidels", wicca etc, the destruction of the environment,.... was ultimately caused by people having put false statements into the mouth of God and passing that on to you and others as indoctrination's called religion, wouldn't you want to say something about it? I also learn a lot for myself in researching the things that I debate. I do it on the net because, it is one thing to get into the inevitable following arguments with people I don't know where is it another thing to argue with people I have to socialize with frequently.

your heart is so closed that your mind has followed.

Who are you to judge me? You don't know me. You don't know my heart. And it is your mind that is closed, not mine. You said so yourself in that post.

 

[Marlin]

Seeking? I have already disproved the religions I have discussed.

Not to believers of those religions, you haven't. You've only been believed by those who already discount those religions as false. To the rest of us, our faith remains.

 

[Trilairian]

Not to believers of those religions, you haven't. You've only been believed by those who already discount those religions as false. To the rest of us, our faith remains.

Yes I have, you just reflexively blink everytime I show you proof. In other words, you are in denial.

 

[Marlin]

No, you haven't, really.

 

[Trilairian]

No, you haven't, really.

Yes I have, really.

 

[Marlin]

My faith remains.

 

[perfectblue]

Religion propagates ignorance, oppression and fear - reasons enough.

oh, no, i beg to differ. PEOPLE associated with religion propagate ignorance, oppression, and fear. religion itself does not.

Bingo! We have a winner!
Perhaps you hadn't noticed, but my rights, and everyone elses, are infringed upon by theist thought every single day.

How are your rights infringed upon by thought? Thought itself, being intangible; how can it possibly invade your personal space? I don't understand what you are saying.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Ah, just blowing smoke out your ass, as I suspected, sfb.

hmmm, lets see:
http://www.sharpened.net/glossary/acronyms.php
SFB "S••• for brains"

What a childish little name-caller, I suppose you have something better in that wet noodle of yours? Because if your level of discourse is any indication, you must be one of those 12-year old geeks

now, how exactly do you make this thread more logical, more reasoned without the name-calling?

as I stated before, if you say religion infringes on your rights in any way, you're a liar, unless of course you are a sociopath, or a psychopath, maybe even an axe murderer or serial killer or a child molester? care to explain, Mr. Q?

 

[Roman]

If you found out that virtually every war around you, the societal oppressions around you, the inhibition of scientific progress around you, the abuse of animals, the demeaning of women, racial conflict, abortions, burnt written knowledge, justification of revenge, murders of "infidels", wicca etc, the destruction of the environment,.... was ultimately caused by people having put false statements into the mouth of God and passing that on to you and others as indoctrination's called religion, wouldn't you want to say something about it?

Hahaha. You give religion far too much credit my good man. People do that sort of stuff regardless of their belief. People are animals.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Yes I have, you just reflexively blink everytime I show you proof. In other words, you are in denial.

are you playing poker with Marlin? trying to bluff or out-psych him?

 

[WildBlueYonder]

No, I am not questioning Joseph Smith's prophethood. Prophets do not know everything, and they are not infallible.
...
A prophet is only a prophet when he is acting as such. The rest of the time he is a normal man.

didn't some of his musings go into the D&C then? & I suppose Deuteronomy 18:18-22 means nothing to LDS?

http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=deuteronomy 18:18-22;&version=31;

18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."
21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

 

[Marlin]

The Nature of Prophets and Prophecy

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Personally (and this is not necessarily Mormon doctrine, so don't take it as if it is), I believe that:

1. The Lehites and Mulekites lived in a very limited part of the Americas rather than the entirety of North and South America. As such, they were limited as to what other cultures they came in contact with.

funny, but being that close to all those Mexicans, they should have passed some DNA onto them, check this site out:
http://www.med.nyu.edu/genetics/research/jewish_origins.html

Genetic Analysis of Jewish Origins

Did you ever wonder if 2000 years of recorded history could be preserved in the genetic record? Recent work from genetics labs has validated the Biblical record of a Semitic people who chose a Jewish way of life several thousand years ago.

These observations are the biological equivalent to the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls, suggesting that despite 2000 years of Diaspora, the relatedness of the Jews of Eastern European ("Ashkenazi"), North African ("Sephardic") and Middle Eastern ("Oriental") origin can be demonstrated by genetic marker analysis.
…
Figure 1:Relatedness of Jewish and non-Jewish populations based on Y chromosomal haplotypes. Virtually all Jews came from the Middle East as evidenced by the clustering of their Y chromosomal haplotypes between Jewish groups and between Jews and non-Jewish Middle Easterners.

 

[Marlin]

We don't even know that Lehi was Jewish, nor the genetic makeup of those with whom he went to America. If we don't know at least that much, how in the world can we extrapolate the Lehi party's makeup? It's sheer speculation to try.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

We don't even know that Lehi was Jewish, nor the genetic makeup of those with whom he went to America. If we don't know at least that much, how in the world can we extrapolate the Lehi party's makeup? It's sheer speculation to try.

for a mormon, you need to read your own source documents; Lehi was of the tribe of "Joseph" according to the BoM, a partial error by J. Smith, since under the division of the tribes of Israel, Joseph had been apportioned to his sons into 3 tribes, Ephraim (which became Samaria) & (2 for) Manasseh (by conquest)

see 1 Nephi 5:14:
http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/relg/bookofmormon/TheBookofMormon01-1Nephi/chap6.html

5:14 And it came to pass that my father, Lehi, also found upon the plates of brass a genealogy of his fathers; wherefore he knew that he was a descendant of Joseph; yea, even that Joseph who was the son of Jacob, who was sold into Egypt, and who was preserved by the hand of the Lord, that he might preserve his father, Jacob, and all his household from perishing with famine.

 

[Trilairian]

We don't even know that Lehi was Jewish, nor the genetic makeup of those with whom he went to America. If we don't know at least that much, how in the world can we extrapolate the Lehi party's makeup? It's sheer speculation to try.

Of course he wasn't because he didn't exist. Of course you want him to be Asian, but thats rediculous.