Friends getting religious

[Norsefire]

But regardless, the claims I did make (that you were delusional) are not unfounded. There is no god so the idea that you think you're being spoken to by one makes you delusional.

How do you know?

I happen to think that it's very likely that other intelligent beings exist elsewhere in the universe/other universes.

 

[Balerion]

How do you know?

There's no god in the sense that she's thinking of. Not one that beams dreams and visions down to earth for us to decipher and be considered crazy for believing. That just doesn't happen. It's ridiculous to imagine that it does.

I happen to think that it's very likely that other intelligent beings exist elsewhere in the universe/other universes.

...that's one hell of a non-sequitor, Norse. What, praytell, does that have to do with the existence of a god?

 

[Norsefire]

There's no god in the sense that she's thinking of. Not one that beams dreams and visions down to earth for us to decipher and be considered crazy for believing. That just doesn't happen. It's ridiculous to imagine that it does.

I agree that it is ridiculous, although I'm talking about the core concept of superior intelligences. If there are humans on Earth, why is it absurd to think that there are possibly other more advanced life forms out there?

...that's one hell of a non-sequitor, Norse. What, praytell, does that have to do with the existence of a god?

What is a god besides simply a being superior in ability and intelligence to Humanity?

Would humans not be gods to lesser beings?

 

[Balerion]

I agree that it is ridiculous, although I'm talking about the core concept of superior intelligences. If there are humans on Earth, why is it absurd to think that there are possibly other more advanced life forms out there?

Who said it was absurd? I don't think you're in the right thread, Norse.

What is a god besides simply a being superior in ability and intelligence to Humanity?

Would humans not be gods to lesser beings?

No, we wouldn't be. Not in any sense of the word. You are wrong on all counts.

Once again, you've stumbled into a conversation you aren't intelligent enough to be having. Do us, and yourself, a huge favor by walking away.

 

[Norsefire]

Who said it was absurd? I don't think you're in the right thread, Norse.

Hmm, most people do find it ridiculous.

No, we wouldn't be. Not in any sense of the word. You are wrong on all counts.

Then we're arguing semantics (watch out for the "wrong" word- it's a dangerous word)

Define a god

Once again, you've stumbled into a conversation you aren't intelligent enough to be having. Do us, and yourself, a huge favor by walking away.

I seem to be conversating rather well in my opinion. I'm completely on topic and bringing up a good point: what is a god?

 

[Balerion]

Hmm, most people do find it ridiculous.

Again, WTF are you talking about? Nobody was talking about intelligent life elsewhere in the universe!

Then we're arguing semantics (watch out for the "wrong" word- it's a dangerous word)


Define a god

We're not arguing semantics. You're the one who has the problem here, not me. Clearly we're not discussing the same thing. I'm talking about a supernatural being that created the unvierse; you're talking about aliens.

I seem to be conversating rather well in my opinion. I'm completely on topic and bringing up a good point: what is a god?

If you don't say so yourself, eh?

Fact is, you're the only one who believes that.

Also, we're not talking about the definition of a god. We're talking about a god in a very specific sense.

 

[Norsefire]

Again, WTF are you talking about? Nobody was talking about intelligent life elsewhere in the universe!

We're talking about God(s). I'm simply bringing up a point: if we think of "God" as simply an intelligent being more sophisticated to the human species and specifically, playing some role in human development (either past or present), then is god still a ridiculous idea?

We're not arguing semantics. You're the one who has the problem here, not me. Clearly we're not discussing the same thing. I'm talking about a supernatural being that created the unvierse; you're talking about aliens.

Aliens that could have possibly created our universe.

Gods, then.

Fact is, you're the only one who believes that.

I don't believe that aliens created the universe. I'm only throwing out the idea because I feel it is a very real possibility that shouldn't be ignored.

Also, we're not talking about the definition of a god. We're talking about a god in a very specific sense.

In the Christian sense God is an absurd concept. In the sense of "intelligence" then it is not.

 

[Balerion]

We're talking about God(s). I'm simply bringing up a point: if we think of "God" as simply an intelligent being more sophisticated to the human species and specifically, playing some role in human development (either past or present), then is god still a ridiculous idea?

Well, again, you weren't clear at all in regard to your point, and you came to it in an awfully clumsy way. But now that you've clarified, I can say that yes, it is still a ridiculous idea, because there is no evidence that it's even possible for a race to interfere on a distant planet in any way whatsoever.

Aliens that could have possibly created our universe.

You're just talking out of your ass, Norse. There's no evidence that this is the case at all. Now all you've done is replace the word "God" with "Alien". Either idea is ridiculous.

I don't believe that aliens created the universe. I'm only throwing out the idea because I feel it is a very real possibility that shouldn't be ignored.

But it isn't a "very real possibility"! It's bunk that man has invented! What evidence has brought you to the notion of aliens creating the universe, Norse? What's that? that's right: Nothing.

In the Christian sense God is an absurd concept. In the sense of "intelligence" then it is not.

No, but you haven't defined your alien creators any differently than Christians have defined their God. You're still left with all the same problems!

This is why you shouldn't get involved in these discussions, Norse. You're just not cut out for it. You're Karl Pilkington, I swear to GOD.

 

[Norsefire]

Well, again, you weren't clear at all in regard to your point, and you came to it in an awfully clumsy way. But now that you've clarified, I can say that yes, it is still a ridiculous idea, because there is no evidence that it's even possible for a race to interfere on a distant planet in any way whatsoever.

I never said there was evidence; I'm making a supposition, I'm saying what could possibly be.

Because all we know is that the universe began; we know about the big bang and such, but we don't know why therefore through logic I can come to the conclusion that it occured without or with intelligent cause.

You're just talking out of your ass, Norse. There's no evidence that this is the case at all. Now all you've done is replace the word "God" with "Alien". Either idea is ridiculous.

Intelligent life is a ridiculous idea?

But look at that planet Earth.

But it isn't a "very real possibility"! It's bunk that man has invented! What evidence has brought you to the notion of aliens creating the universe, Norse? What's that? that's right: Nothing.

It's a notion, that's exactly it. That's my point, as we don't know we need to lay out all logical possibilities

a) the universe began without intelligent cause
b) the universe began with intelligent cause

Either way we don't know, and I don't consider either one ridiculous.

 

[Lori_7]

Sorry, dear, but that burden is yours, not mine. I'm not the one making outrageous claims in long, unchecked rambling posts.

no, you made the claim that i am either a liar or i am delusional. you made the claim, now prove it. the claims i am making are not outrageous. you're close-minded and threatened. i communicate with people every day and no one has a problem understanding me.

As usual, you're not paying attention. First, your ramblings make you sound entirely delusional. That's not mudslinging, it's an observation. Second, I never once questioned your ability to maintain a relationship. That was Phlog, not me. As a matter of fact, when he proposed it, I said I would not take it that far.

and there's that word again "rambling". i hear that word out here a lot. not only directed at me, but some people use it when a question is answered honestly and clearly, but they just don't like the answer. the fact is that i'm not delusional. that means nothing to you does it? you guys are practically in a frenzy just because what i'm saying doesn't fit into your little paradigms. why are you so threatened by my testimony? that's a rhetorical question by the way. i already know the answer.

 

[(Q)]

no, you made the claim that i am either a liar or i am delusional. you made the claim, now prove it. the claims i am making are not outrageous.

not nice, very honest, not fond of religion, only shows up when invited, admires introspection, hates lies, very creative at getting a point across, conversational but doesn't beat around the bush (no small talk really), and in regards to him and spiritual knowledge, he gives you what you ask for, so be careful what you ask for, apparently fond of the arts. he'll develop you, mature you, as you become more childlike with him, like innocense without ignorance, i think he likes inquisitive people, people who want to know why, and he has a great sense of humor, but is not sympathetic as far as i know.

No Lori, they're not outrageous claims, they are insane claims.

 

[Lori_7]

It exactly does.

See, if God is omnipotent/omniscient, then at the very moment he created the world, he foresaw all the actions of all the people to come. He knew some would be sinners, but created the world the way he created it anyway.

That means that things were in motion towards a destiny, and we have no choice in the matter.

there are some things you can control in life and some things you can't. given what you can control, you choose your own destiny.

So you cannot entertain free will and omnipotence/omniscience at the same time, they are mutually exclusive.

well like i said, he could have just not created you. then you would really have no free will.

Also, on God telling you there is no time where he is, well, without time, there is no cause and effect. No cause and effect, no blame, no sin, just unrelated events. Again, this blows your arguments out of the water.

listen, i didn't come up with this stuff. i told you that it was an answer that i received. there is time here. there is cause and effect here. he is not confined to this physical world. obviously.

It does if you created the entire Universe they lived in.

well somebody had to do it. there is intelligence behind the laws of the universe and creation. but if you're trying to convince me that you don't have the free will to make choices and decisions for yourself every day of your life here, i'm sorry, i don't believe you.

Not if you created every element they will ever interact with, and at that point, understood the full ramafications of every aspect of it.

you make choices under a given law, as with any law, within any system. you can even choose transgression. for all you know, you chose to be born.

 

[PieAreSquared]

for all you know, you chose to be born.

yeah... and I ain't making that mistake again

 

[Lori_7]

And the thing you don't seem to grasp, is that everything you have written, is all subjective. It's as real as the Yorkshire Ripper hearing 'God' tell him to murder prostitutes. He was so convinced of his experiences, he murdered 13 women, and attacked several others.

The only difference between you and him, so far, or in as much as you have revealed, is that the voices in your head aren't telling you to kill people yet.

As 1% of adults are schizophrenic, and a portion of those will hear voices, your symptoms don't surprise me Lori, I just find it sad that nobody has helped you over them yet.

i'm not schizophrenic. but again, kudos to another lame-ass unfounded hypothesis. what would you like? for me to stuff god in an envelope and mail him to you? do you expect to share all of my experiences with me? would you like to inhabit my body so you can observe exactly what i observe? that's absurd. as a matter of fact, there are more people on this earth who have had spiritual experiences and/or believe in god than there are atheists. so maybe you're the one who has a mental disorder. but i don't really believe that. your disorder is clearly emotionally and intentionally driven.

 

[Balerion]

I never said there was evidence; I'm making a supposition, I'm saying what could possibly be.

How do you know it could possibly be? What evidence do you have that makes you believe aliens creating a universe is possible? Please, I need to hear this. As far as I'm concerned, it's impossible.

Because all we know is that the universe began; we know about the big bang and such, but we don't know why therefore through logic I can come to the conclusion that it occured without or with intelligent cause.

You can, but you wouldn't be basing it on anything.

Intelligent life is a ridiculous idea?

No, and I have no idea how you'd take that out of what I said. Intelligent life is a very distinct possibility. What I can't see any evidence to believe in that intelligent life created a universe.

It's a notion, that's exactly it. That's my point, as we don't know we need to lay out all logical possibilities

The problem is that you've decided "aliens creating universe" is somehow a logical possibility. I happen to disagree with that idea.

a) the universe began without intelligent cause
b) the universe began with intelligent cause

Once again, you demonstrate why you should hush when the adults talk.

Who says the universe had to have a beginning?

Either way we don't know, and I don't consider either one ridiculous.

But that's you--you're a ridiculous person with ridiculous opinions.

 

[Norsefire]

The universe either had a beginning or it didn't. If it did, then we proceed to step two where I lay out the "with or without"

If it didn't, well then it's irrelevant altogether although quite mind boggling to imagine how something could exist eternally.

At any rate, I was only throwing out an idea and I don't wish to bother debating this kind of thing.

 

[Balerion]

The universe either had a beginning or it didn't.

But don't you see that this admission destroys your entire previous argument?

At any rate, I was only throwing out an idea and I don't wish to bother debating this kind of thing.

OK, Pilkington, you're right, you were just throwing out an idea. One you called "logical". You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Norsefire]

But don't you see that this admission destroys your entire previous argument?

No it doesn't. You should be able to put two and two together; obviously my argument applies only if we assume the universe had a beginning. If it did, as I said, then my argument applies.

OK, Pilkington, you're right, you were just throwing out an idea. One you called "logical". You should be ashamed of yourself.

I find it quite logical. We can observe that intelligence exists and that intelligence can do things. If the universe had a beginning, the only two logical possibilities are that this was due to intelligent cause or without intelligent cause.

We might ask "how can you create a universe" but then again this is irrelevant as we have no idea what might be possible in the distant future for our own species; if humanity creates a universe, don't we fit the definition of gods?

And that is where the entire idea of gods comes from: a higher intelligence.

 

[(Q)]

i'm not schizophrenic.

That's what they all say. Yet, you bear striking resemblance to someone who does.

there are more people on this earth who have had spiritual experiences and/or believe in god than there are atheists.

There are a lot of schizophrenics.

so maybe you're the one who has a mental disorder.

He doesn't see imaginary friends, you do.

 

[swarm]

yes it does. you just don't like my answer. but it satisfies me just fine, and that's all that really matters.

Would you accept this from your banker while he explained why your money was gone?