So god is mostly empty space and unliving matter devoid of all consciousness. In the very, very, very few places he manifests a smidge of consciousness he can't even keep from killing himself over his nature?
Not terribly impressive.
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Friends getting religious
- Thread starter Mickmeister
- Start date
So god is mostly empty space and unliving matter devoid of all consciousness. In the very, very, very few places he manifests a smidge of consciousness he can't even keep from killing himself over his nature?
Not terribly impressive.
I happen to think that it's very likely that other intelligent beings exist elsewhere in the universe/other universes.
Those aren't gods.
What is a god besides simply a being superior in ability and intelligence to Humanity?
Supernatural.
Would humans not be gods to lesser beings?
No.
a life partner? well, the only person that i've "partnered" with in any way for my entire life is my mother, and unless she passes away before i do, she won't even qualify for that.
if what you're really asking is whether or not i have maintained healthy and intimate relationships of longevity during my lifetime, the answer is yes, quite a few actually. ...
Lori, I think 'Life Partner' is quite a simple question. Simply, it's a non-gender specific way of asking if you have a partner, male of female, with whom you co-habit.
But you still haven't answered that clearly.
and the fact that you have asked me this question, in regards to an proposition that is irrelevant and pulled straight out of your rear end, just because i believe in god, is sad and absurd.
It's not just because you believe in God, that's absurd! Your belief in God is a symptom of your problems, Lori, I'm trying to establish the cause.
there are some things you can control in life and some things you can't. given what you can control, you choose your own destiny.
Lori, seems I'm going to have to explain this to you. Say I make a machine, and I understand each part as I design it, I assemble it, and know what the machine will do, and produce, when I start it, do the individual parts of that machine have free will? Of course they don't.
Now, if you say God created the Universe, and knows how everything works, what is the difference? Because you feel like you have free will, you say you have it? Sorry, no, that's just more subjective input, with no scientific or logical basis.
well like i said, he could have just not created you. then you would really have no free will.
God didn't create me! If you believe you own bullshit, my parents CHOSE to! Please try being consistent?
listen, i didn't come up with this stuff. i told you that it was an answer that i received. there is time here. there is cause and effect here. he is not confined to this physical world. obviously.
The voices in your head are part your own invention, and part inspired by what you have read. Some of it you _do_ make up, Lori.
well somebody had to do it.
Regress that one step further, and ask yourself who made God. If somebody had to do everything, you never arrive at God, unless you ignore your own opening premise, and that invalidates your own logic. Sorry Lori, but that argument fails.
there is intelligence behind the laws of the universe and creation.
Is there? Another wild, unfounded claim, Lori. To quote Douglas Adams;
"Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' "
See Lori, you see intelligence, because you live on Planet Lori. You think the Universe exists the way it does so humans can live and kiss God's arse. Well, no, we are the way we are, because of the way the Universe turned out. Stop being so self centred, and realise that the entire Universe was not designed for your convenience.
but if you're trying to convince me that you don't have the free will to make choices and decisions for yourself every day of your life here, i'm sorry, i don't believe you.
Do I have 'free will'? Or are my decisions part logic, and partly influenced by chemical, and random effects in my synapses? Do you know anything about AI, (Artificial Intelligence)? Heard of the 'The Turing Test'?
How does 'free will' work? I guess you will say some 'soul' is our free will, but that somehow has to interact with our flesh Lori, and so far, there's no evidence for any soul, and there's no proposition of how the soul interacts with the mind. As we know our actions, and personality are affected by head trauma, and chemical imbalances, how come this affects the ethereal soul too? Come on Lori, there are too many questions here, and you really have to come up with some good answers.
you make choices under a given law, as with any law, within any system. you can even choose transgression.
In your head, does that answer any of the questions I have asked you? It certainly doesn't answer how we can have free will, when the outcome of every action is known, by your God, allegedly. I refer you back to my machine analogy. Please try and grasp that.
for all you know, you chose to be born.
Or you could be spouting yet more unsubstantiated rot.
i'm not schizophrenic. but again, kudos to another lame-ass unfounded hypothesis.
You experience a being that isn't there. It might not be schizophrenia, that's just one possibility, it might be waking dreams, hallucinations, or some other mental disorder you have. You need diagnosing by a professional.
as a matter of fact, there are more people on this earth who have had spiritual experiences and/or believe in god than there are atheists.
All of your massed believers hold some contradictory beliefs, so you can't really sum them against atheists until they agree on stuff. How many of them really believe? How many of them go along with it, because of tradition, or because of a herd mentality, or simply because they like the community feeling religion can sometimes foster? How many of them hear voices? Do you need the comfort of thinking you are in a majority?
so maybe you're the one who has a mental disorder. your disorder is clearly emotionally and intentionally driven.
My disorder? That's a straw man you're stuffing there. I don't have a disorder, and I'm not emotional. I'm quite a fan of the scientific method, where we try and remove human foibles from affecting the results of our investigations.
i'm not schizophrenic. but again, kudos to another lame-ass unfounded hypothesis.
You experience a being that isn't there. It might not be schizophrenia, that's just one possibility, it might be waking dreams, hallucinations, or some other mental disorder you have. You need diagnosing by a professional.
as a matter of fact, there are more people on this earth who have had spiritual experiences and/or believe in god than there are atheists.
All of your massed believers hold some contradictory beliefs, so you can't really sum them against atheists until they agree on stuff. How many of them really believe? How many of them go along with it, because of tradition, or because of a herd mentality, or simply because they like the community feeling religion can sometimes foster? How many of them hear voices? Do you need the comfort of thinking you are in a majority?
so maybe you're the one who has a mental disorder. your disorder is clearly emotionally and intentionally driven.
My disorder? That's a straw man you're stuffing there. I don't have a disorder, and I'm not emotional. I'm quite a fan of the scientific method, where we try and remove human foibles from affecting the results of our investigations.
No it doesn't. You should be able to put two and two together; obviously my argument applies only if we assume the universe had a beginning. If it did, as I said, then my argument applies.
No, what you actually said was that the universe either began with intelligent cause or it began without intelligent cause. That was your argument. You did not say "Or it didn't begin at all" nor another popular idea, "It is an eternal cycle of beginnings and endings".
You stance was clear. You said there were two options. Obviously there are many more than that.
I find it quite logical. We can observe that intelligence exists and that intelligence can do things. If the universe had a beginning, the only two logical possibilities are that this was due to intelligent cause or without intelligent cause.
Of course you find it logical. That's because you're a shaved chimp. The truth is that there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that would make you believe that the universe was created by intelligence. None at all. The fact that intelligence "can do things" isn't enough. Ants can do things, too. Water can do things, too; it can knock down a building. Does that mean it can build one? Then why does the fact that intelligence "can do things" make the idea of intelligence creating the universe plausible?
We might ask "how can you create a universe" but then again this is irrelevant as we have no idea what might be possible in the distant future for our own species; if humanity creates a universe, don't we fit the definition of gods?
But you're jumping to a nonsensical conclusion, Norse, as usual. That's like saying we will someday be able to travel faster than light, even though we know matter cannot travel faster than light. You'd just say "Well, we don't know what the future holds" as if that's an acceptable answer for everything.
And that is where the entire idea of gods comes from: a higher intelligence.
No, not at all. Maybe in your mind, but that's not true at all.
It's a hard read, but if you do wade through it, it tells you a lot about Lori. She prides herself on a lot of things, but she appears single. Is religion filling a void in her life? Sounds like it.
On a rough count, 35 references to 'I', 17 'me', and 9 'my' uses. IE, Lori, lives on planet 'Lori'.
Seems natural to me. To be fair, she's speaking of her beliefs, experiences & interpretations.
Jethro Tull
Registered Member
It seems kind of hypocritical to me. They live purposely in sin for half their life, then because half of it is over, they decide that they better start believing and becoming faithful in order to go to heaven.
Death anxiety. They realized that they are going to die, so they begin to fear, forgetting that they are alive right now, and believing in myths in hopes that they will go to a better place after death. It is a shame, but billions of people choose to do this, because they are afraid of living for today, afraid of dying to their ego.
Believing in God and knowing God are two entirely different things.
People forget that they are alive right now. Here and now, is all there is; it is Heaven if we perceive it to be, and if enough people do, we will naturally create a Heaven on Earth, because the world is a reflection of us. This is Heaven, this is the hereafter.
Lori, I think 'Life Partner' is quite a simple question. Simply, it's a non-gender specific way of asking if you have a partner, male of female, with whom you co-habit.
But you still haven't answered that clearly.
i do think i answered that quite clearly. i gave you a very in-depth answer actually. i have maintained relationships with people, while maintaining a relationship with god, and the two relationships did not conflict in any way.
and, i currently co-habit with a female.
It's not just because you believe in God, that's absurd! Your belief in God is a symptom of your problems, Lori, I'm trying to establish the cause.
i already told you the cause but i'll reiterate. my belief in god is caused by a relationship that i've had with him for many, many years. and i don't consider it a problem.
i do think i answered that quite clearly. i gave you a very in-depth answer actually. i have maintained relationships with people, while maintaining a relationship with god, and the two relationships did not conflict in any way.
and, i currently co-habit with a female.
What I wonder is why you bother answering that question. No offense to Phlog, I'm just curious why, if you feel the question and accusation is so heinous (and I'd agree) why dignify it? You never put your love life on the table, so why is it a topic of conversation?
Lori, seems I'm going to have to explain this to you. Say I make a machine, and I understand each part as I design it, I assemble it, and know what the machine will do, and produce, when I start it, do the individual parts of that machine have free will? Of course they don't.
so, you're a machine? well, that might explain a few things. i'm not a machine though.
Now, if you say God created the Universe, and knows how everything works, what is the difference? Because you feel like you have free will, you say you have it? Sorry, no, that's just more subjective input, with no scientific or logical basis.
are you saying that you don't think we have free will? or are you saying that i should say that we don't have free will, even though you think we do?
God didn't create me! If you believe you own bullshit, my parents CHOSE to! Please try being consistent?
i believe there is more to you than just flesh and bone. i believe that you are a spiritual being. did your parents create that?
The voices in your head are part your own invention, and part inspired by what you have read. Some of it you _do_ make up, Lori.
that is absolutely untrue conjecture, but not presented as conjecture. i am not a liar.
Regress that one step further, and ask yourself who made God. If somebody had to do everything, you never arrive at God, unless you ignore your own opening premise, and that invalidates your own logic. Sorry Lori, but that argument fails.
i don't know what god is other than god. i cannot define it. i have stated that. i would think that in order to truly and completely define it, you would probably have to be it.
Is there? Another wild, unfounded claim, Lori. To quote Douglas Adams;
"Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' "
See Lori, you see intelligence, because you live on Planet Lori. You think the Universe exists the way it does so humans can live and kiss God's arse. Well, no, we are the way we are, because of the way the Universe turned out. Stop being so self centred, and realise that the entire Universe was not designed for your convenience.
first of all, i said nothing of my convenience. secondly, if i live on planet lori then you live on planet phlog, but i'm not infantile enough to keep repeatedly pointing that out. and thirdly, the god i know is into sincerity. it's my opinion that if you can't see intelligence in the design of the universe then you're not looking.
Do I have 'free will'? Or are my decisions part logic, and partly influenced by chemical, and random effects in my synapses? Do you know anything about AI, (Artificial Intelligence)? Heard of the 'The Turing Test'?
How does 'free will' work? I guess you will say some 'soul' is our free will, but that somehow has to interact with our flesh Lori, and so far, there's no evidence for any soul, and there's no proposition of how the soul interacts with the mind. As we know our actions, and personality are affected by head trauma, and chemical imbalances, how come this affects the ethereal soul too? Come on Lori, there are too many questions here, and you really have to come up with some good answers.
dude...reeeeeel it in. do you make decisions for yourself or not? you are telling me that you don't feel any control whatsoever for your own destiny? that must make you a real responsible guy.
In your head, does that answer any of the questions I have asked you? It certainly doesn't answer how we can have free will, when the outcome of every action is known, by your God, allegedly. I refer you back to my machine analogy. Please try and grasp that.
the outcome is known, but the action is owned.
Or you could be spouting yet more unsubstantiated rot.
you're quite wretched you know. because you choose to be.
What I wonder is why you bother answering that question. No offense to Phlog, I'm just curious why, if you feel the question and accusation is so heinous (and I'd agree) why dignify it? You never put your love life on the table, so why is it a topic of conversation?
i'm not sure if i'd say heinous, just retarded really. but you know, i'm an honest person, i'll humor his dumb ass. and by love life are you referring to sex? cause he said it wasn't about sex. i cohabitate with my doggie. i mean, she's pretty and all but...
it's my opinion that if you can't see intelligence in the design of the universe then you're not looking
I'll actually agree with you. Cancer for instance is clearly lovingly and intelligently created with a very specific purpose.
Hi btw.
i'm not sure if i'd say heinous, just retarded really. but you know, i'm an honest person, i'll humor his dumb ass. and by love life are you referring to sex? cause he said it wasn't about sex. i cohabitate with my doggie. i mean, she's pretty and all but...
Oh, well, I didn't see the part where he said it wasn't about sex. He mentioned lasting relationships, and you mentioned men you've loved and/or married, and, well, sex is a part of that.
I'll actually agree with you. Cancer for instance is clearly lovingly and intelligently created with a very specific purpose.
Hi btw.
hey pook. cancer has a cause. it's not just some random event.
Oh, well, I didn't see the part where he said it wasn't about sex. He mentioned lasting relationships, and you mentioned men you've loved and/or married, and, well, sex is a part of that.
of course it is. he was just being obtuse.
hey pook. cancer has a cause. it's not just some random event.
Like what? Genetics? I know you're thinking of the obvious ones, like people who get it from smoking, but what about the people who get it for no other reason than it running in the family?
cancer has a cause. it's not just some random event
I never said otherwise, in fact I agreed with you in saying that it was clearly created by an all-loving intelligent entity.