Do you love America?

hypewaders said:
it's an unusually intense emotion.
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Hitler was intensely patriotic, crowds he spoke to were bursting with patriotism. For all practical applications, patriotism = collective egoism. It's atomized, individualistic world we live in. Something got to keep societary cohesion, thus, master classes got to instill the idea of patriotism into masses as an unconditional reflex. A Russian peasant circa 1870 have not had a clue what is patriotism. His grand, grand, grand, grand children have the idea implanted into their matrix soon after birth. Implantation is so successful, most never ever give a thought "what is patriotism", it's just there, it just exists (like Jesus).
 
"Hitler was intensely patriotic, crowds he spoke to were bursting with patriotism. For all practical applications, patriotism = collective egoism. It's atomized, individualistic world we live in. Something got to keep societary cohesion, thus, master classes got to instill the idea of patriotism into masses as an unconditional reflex."

I somewhat agree: Love of country or patriotism can go wrong. But it can also be sincere. I don't consider patriotism good or bad. It's our actions, not our patriotic emotion, that bring us and our countries honor or shame.

"what is America?"

I didn't start the thread, but I think it's clear that it refers to the USA.
 
Nationalism and patriotism are not equivalent in every way. Nationalism connotes the competitiveness and often supremacy of the state. Sincere and ardent patriotism can embrace the humblest nation and be fulfilled. I like to think that patriotism can enfold higher ideals than its cruder spinoff, nationalism. The nationalist wants to identify with a dominant country, which patriotism has no necessity for.
 
hypewaders said:
"what is America?"

I didn't start the thread, but I think it's clear that it refers to the USA.
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What is USA? Yup, I agree modern man programmed early to perceive patriotism to be as natural as breath. Otherwise, it would be somewhat hard sending trailer park's dwellers to fight for gated community's wallets.
 
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dixonmassey: "What is USA?"

The United States of America. Try posing a more direct question, because it's unclear what you're trying to find out.
 
hypewaders said:
Nationalism and patriotism are not equivalent in every way. Nationalism connotes the competitiveness and often supremacy of the state. Sincere and ardent patriotism can embrace the humblest nation and be fulfilled. I like to think that patriotism can enfold higher ideals than its cruder spinoff, nationalism. The nationalist wants to identify with a dominant country.
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You are wrong. Nationalism was here first. Concept of nationalism was developed by German philosophers of 18th century, start of German unification. United industrialized Germany was kinda "extra" in the already divided world. Therefore, WWI, WWII. Patriotism is kinda PC nationalism.
 
hypewaders said:
dixonmassey: "What is USA?"

The United States of America. Try posing a more direct question, because it's unclear what you're trying to find out.
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What is United States of America? Government, institutions, people, land, trailer parks, gated communities, mountains, deserts, food, serial killers, napalm, A-bomb, military, universities, liberals, conservatives, hippies, bums, Bill Gates, GW, list is endless. You cannot claim you love all of that.
 
I love my country, in cognizance of many of its faults. Love enables such things. Strong emotions don't have to make sense (which is a good reason to challenge emotion with reason).
 
hypewaders said:
I love my country, in cognizance of many of its faults. Love enables such things. Strong emotions don't have to make sense (which is a good reason to challenge emotion with reason).
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What's your country exactly? Have you hugged a corner street bum recently as an expression of your love? What do you love exactly? Country, USA, United States of America are just general abstractions.
 
dixonmassey: "What's your country exactly?"

The USA.

"Have you hugged a corner street bum recently as an expression of your love?"

Not in a while. I wouldn't be averse to hugging a bum again, it usually brings a smile.

"What do you love exactly?"

Hugging bums. Flying freely and affordably over a beautiful country. Watching this land and people overcome anything.

"Country, USA, United States of America are just general abstractions."

Not to me.
 
hypewaders said:
dixonmassey: "What's your country exactly?"

The USA.
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That includes "no trespassing" chunks (most of the USA) :)?


"Have you hugged a corner street bum recently as an expression of your love?"

Not in a while. I wouldn't be averse to hugging a bum again, it usually brings a smile.
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Why in the county full of love to a country there are bums? They do not belong to a country to be loved?

"What do you love exactly?"

Hugging bums. Flying freely and affordably over a beautiful country. Watching this land and people overcome anything.
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People are like rats, they will adjust to anything in USA or Congo. Shouldn't you love Congo too?

"Country, USA, United States of America are just general abstractions."

Not to me.
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Then it would not be that hard to define "What is USA, United States of America?".
 
dm: "That includes "no trespassing" chunks (most of the USA) ?"

I don't pay them any heed. Especially not from my airplanes.

"Why in the county full of love to a country there are bums?"

Not enough love for each other.

"People are like rats, they will adjust to anything in USA or Congo."

But I suspect the rats are happier there.

"Shouldn't you love Congo too?"

I've never been. I've fallen in love with several countries, which came as a surprise on most occasions.
 
Jesus, it figures this would be the perfect opportunity for those who only see the USA for their military to rail against us. Believe it or not, there is a lot about this place to love. People love their homes even if they come from a war-torn dictatorship. It's their home, and fuck you if you don't like it.

I love my country. I love it because it was the most progressive country in the history of the world when it was formed. We are an immigrant nation, a place where you can walk down the street and see five different colors of people and feel no need to hate or be afraid of any of them. I have had friends in my life who are Mexican, Canadian, African (like, off the boat African), English, Australian, Southern...:D I love that I have met, and will meet, people from so many different places and different cultures.

I love that for better or worse, I was born and raised in a country that will be talked about forever in history books, even if someday she falls.

Yes, I am proud to be an American. I am proud that I can hate absolutely every dirty, rotten, criminal politician and not have to go to jail for it. I can march on Washington to protest what I think is wrong. I can stand (granted, at a safe distance) in front of the White House with a bullhorn and call George W Bush a lying, murdering scumbag, and it's OK.

I love this place. I love my home, I'm proud of its history.
 
dixonmassey said:
You are wrong. Nationalism was here first. Concept of nationalism was developed by German philosophers of 18th century, start of German unification. United industrialized Germany was kinda "extra" in the already divided world. Therefore, WWI, WWII. Patriotism is kinda PC nationalism.
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Get your facts straight. First of all, no, nationalism was not developed by Germans in the 18th century at the start of unification. As a matter of fact, that'd be quite impossible, seeing as how German unification came about in the 19th century. Nationalism surfaced in Europe around the time of Louis Napoleon III and Camillo Benso di Cavour - twenty to thirty years before Bismarck in Germany.
 
JDawg said:
Jesus, it figures this would be the perfect opportunity for those who only see the USA for their military to rail against us. Believe it or not, there is a lot about this place to love. People love their homes even if they come from a war-torn dictatorship. It's their home, and fuck you if you don't like it.

I love my country. I love it because it was the most progressive country in the history of the world when it was formed. We are an immigrant nation, a place where you can walk down the street and see five different colors of people and feel no need to hate or be afraid of any of them. I have had friends in my life who are Mexican, Canadian, African (like, off the boat African), English, Australian, Southern...:D I love that I have met, and will meet, people from so many different places and different cultures.

I love that for better or worse, I was born and raised in a country that will be talked about forever in history books, even if someday she falls.

Yes, I am proud to be an American. I am proud that I can hate absolutely every dirty, rotten, criminal politician and not have to go to jail for it. I can march on Washington to protest what I think is wrong. I can stand (granted, at a safe distance) in front of the White House with a bullhorn and call George W Bush a lying, murdering scumbag, and it's OK.

I love this place. I love my home, I'm proud of its history.
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:bravo:
 
JDawg said:
Jesus, it figures this would be the perfect opportunity for those who only see the USA for their military to rail against us. Believe it or not, there is a lot about this place to love. People love their homes even if they come from a war-torn dictatorship. It's their home, and fuck you if you don't like it.

I love my country. I love it because it was the most progressive country in the history of the world when it was formed. We are an immigrant nation, a place where you can walk down the street and see five different colors of people and feel no need to hate or be afraid of any of them. I have had friends in my life who are Mexican, Canadian, African (like, off the boat African), English, Australian, Southern...:D I love that I have met, and will meet, people from so many different places and different cultures.

I love that for better or worse, I was born and raised in a country that will be talked about forever in history books, even if someday she falls.

Yes, I am proud to be an American. I am proud that I can hate absolutely every dirty, rotten, criminal politician and not have to go to jail for it. I can march on Washington to protest what I think is wrong. I can stand (granted, at a safe distance) in front of the White House with a bullhorn and call George W Bush a lying, murdering scumbag, and it's OK.

I love this place. I love my home, I'm proud of its history.
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So you would be similarly proud of any country you would be born in ?
 
tim840 said:
Get your facts straight. First of all, no, nationalism was not developed by Germans in the 18th century at the start of unification. As a matter of fact, that'd be quite impossible, seeing as how German unification came about in the 19th century. Nationalism surfaced in Europe around the time of Louis Napoleon III and Camillo Benso di Cavour - twenty to thirty years before Bismarck in Germany.
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I'm sure you can use google to get facts and to see that you are wrong. I will not be googling for you.

Concept of nationalism, an idea of a nation as the ultimate authority&purpose&meaning&thing to love&thing to be associated with&thing to be proud&thing to sacrifice your life for have been born in 18th century German principalities. 19th century just added more refinement.

It's true that bulk of German unification occured in 19th century. However, changes of that magnitude don't just appear out of blue. It takes an idea, it takes time for that idea to dominate minds, it takes time for changes.
 
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