Dear Believers, prove your god or gods is/aren't just fiction(s).

davewhite04 said:
Let's forget about history then, even though it is blatantly historic(it's used for archaeology to uncover the past for example).

If you choose to disregard the story of Jesus, so be it. Free will, or is it?
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Me? This has been about biblical scholarship.

Bringing up free will seems to be a red herring. But, in any case, there is not even any consensus within Christianity about that.
 
exchemist said:
Bringing up free will seems to be a red herring. But, in any case, there is not even any consensus within Christianity about that.
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I didn't want it to be a red herring but it is I guess. I wrote something about free will on here, and how I believe atheists are meant to be atheists in many cases maybe all cases, like teeth aren't perfect because God wanted dentists.
 
davewhite04 said:
I didn't want it to be a red herring but it is I guess. I wrote something about free will on here, and how I believe atheists are meant to be atheists in many cases maybe all cases, like teeth aren't perfect because God wanted dentists.
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Right, atheists aren't among the "chosen". And you call others arrogant....
 
davewhite04 said:
It's a book about God.
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Not really. It's primarily a book about the basis of most Christian religions. God is mentioned of course. But there is far more talk about characters - Adam, Noah, Moses, Jesus, Caesar, James etc than there is directly about God.

The only people who don't take it seriously are atheists and Jews.
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What does "take it seriously" mean? Acknowledge it exists? Then about 80% of the people in the world "take it seriously."

Does it mean - believe the Bible is all true? Then about 5% of the people in the world "take it seriously."
 
billvon said:
Not really. It's primarily a book about the basis of most Christian religions. God is mentioned of course. But there is far more talk about characters - Adam, Noah, Moses, Jesus, Caesar, James etc than there is directly about God.



What does "take it seriously" mean? Acknowledge it exists? Then about 80% of the people in the world "take it seriously."

Does it mean - believe the Bible is all true? Then about 5% of the people in the world "take it seriously."
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Have you read the bible billvon?

Reading it before calling it a fairy tale is a good start.
 
billvon said:
Cover to cover. 4 years of Bible studies. If I never hear another word about the differences and similarities between the First and Second Councils of Nicaea, it will be too soon.

Did you call it a fairy tale and I missed it?
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Are you a believer?
 
davewhite04 said:
Are you a believer?
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In what? The inerrancy of the Bible? No, I don't believe that.

That there is a God made up of three separate but equal parts, one of whom was Jesus, and the third of which is a poorly defined Holy Spirit? All separately sentient but also sentient together as one? Who COULD cure cancer, stop wars etc but decides not to? No, I don't believe that.

That there is something out there we don't understand, that some people may well call God? Yes, I think that's likely.
 
billvon said:
In what? The inerrancy of the Bible? No, I don't believe that.

That there is a God made up of three separate but equal parts, one of whom was Jesus, and the third of which is a poorly defined Holy Spirit? All separately sentient but also sentient together as one? Who COULD cure cancer, stop wars etc but decides not to? No, I don't believe that.

That there is something out there we don't understand, that some people may well call God? Yes, I think that's likely.
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Good reason not to believe.

Interesting position, it's what I believe sometimes.
 
davewhite04 said:
If you don't believe in Jesus, you will be judged.
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You don't speak for God or Jesus.

This is a discussion forum, not a soapbox for you to preach from. We can discuss things academically, but declaring your beliefs about what will happen to my decaying bones is both misplaced and indefensible.

In short: it doesn't matter here what you believe, what matters here is what you can defend. And, by resorting to preaching, you're really proving that you can't defend your beliefs.



Furthermore, notice that I and others are addressing our arguments to ideas (or at least should be), not people. I talk about the implications of ideas such as theism and atheism. You can't hurt an idea. I don't tell you that you are X - because that would be attempting to hurt you. It is certainly unacceptable to call another member a liar, based on nothing more than one's own personal beliefs.

Both you and Trek need to step back from the preaching and consider what it means to have a civil discussion.
 
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davewhite04 said:
Interesting position, it's what I believe sometimes.
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Dave04, so, this god thing is a sort of 'on and off' thing with you?
What happens to those born with the 'God gene' on the days they don't believe... Below
davewhite04 said:
Well, some of us were born with the God gene, and some not. People who were not cannot believe in God, it's not their choice it just is.
And then we get atheists who live in a completely different reality to theists hence they tend not to agree on anything so a discussion tends to end in a straight out argument.
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Is it certain days of the week you believe the following...
davewhite04 said:
I strongly believe that angels of the LORD and demons can materialise and become human.
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DaveC426913 said:
You don't speak for God or Jesus.

This is a discussion forum, not a soapbox for you to preach from. We can discuss things academically, but declaring your beliefs about what will happen to my decaying bones is both misplaced and indefensible.

In short: it doesn't matter here what you believe, what matters here is what you can defend. And, by resorting to preaching, you're really proving that you can't defend your beliefs.



Furthermore, notice that I and others are addressing our arguments to ideas (or at least should be), not people. I talk about the implications of ideas such as theism and atheism. You can't hurt an idea. I don't tell you that you are X - because that would be attempting to hurt you. It is certainly unacceptable to call another member a liar, based on nothing more than one's own personal beliefs.

Both you and Trek need to step back from the preaching and consider what it means to have a civil discussion.
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Stop preaching.
 
foghorn said:
Dave04, so, this god thing is a sort of 'on and off' thing with you?
What happens to those born with the 'God gene' on the days they don't believe... Below

Is it certain days of the week you believe the following...
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The "god thing" is always on my mind. Like billvon, sometimes I think differently. It's healthy, questioning your beliefs, I just do it often.
 
billvon said:
In what? The inerrancy of the Bible? No, I don't believe that.

That there is a God made up of three separate but equal parts, one of whom was Jesus, and the third of which is a poorly defined Holy Spirit? All separately sentient but also sentient together as one? Who COULD cure cancer, stop wars etc but decides not to? No, I don't believe that.

That there is something out there we don't understand, that some people may well call God? Yes, I think that's likely.
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Poorly contrived, you mean.
 
davewhite04 said:
The "god thing" is always on my mind. Like billvon, sometimes I think differently.
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I have never seen Billvon make a statement as if it were a fact, when he knows it’s just his belief.


davewhite04 said:
It's healthy, questioning your beliefs, I just do it often.
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Would it be ‘healthy’ to throw the following into a discussion as if it was a fact, and not expect a kick-back.
davewhite04 said:
Well, some of us were born with the God gene, and some not. People who were not cannot believe in God, it's not their choice it just is.
And then we get atheists who live in a completely different reality to theists hence they tend not to agree on anything so a discussion tends to end in a straight out argument.
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