bearer_of_truth
Registered Senior Member
For those interested in the supernatural orb being the Holy Spirit, here is a link to a page on my blog: A Christian Biblical Study of the Holy Spirit & Spiritual Orbs
Dear Believers, prove your god or gods is/aren't just fiction(s).
- Thread starter Gawdzilla Sama
- Start date
Of course! You can imagine a flat Earth that is well within the context of subjective experiences, for example. That's not proof the Earth is flat, of course.
Maybe, maybe not. It may just be a plain old lie; there are very few accounts of that, and the accounts were very carefully edited by the early Church to support the new religion. It may also be 100% true. In those days, it was hard for people to figure out when someone was dead. Thus Jesus may have been put in the tomb (barely) alive, woken up later, and walked around a bit.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Hi billvon,
Good example... so maybe in the future science might be able to detect a ghost, therefore taking a massive step into the world of the supernatural. I play a game called Sims 4 sometimes, it's like a life sim, it can be upgraded to include ghosts in the game, and it makes the game better! Let there be ghosts!
So your Jesus thoughts... the accounts talk of the two Mary's(I think) visiting the tomb where they met an angel, the angel that opened the tomb I suspect. I don't think Jesus would be able to get out if he was just a man, even if he is crazy. I like your comment at the end "...and walked around a bit".
Sure! But once that happens, ghosts won't be supernatural any more, by definition.
Why? Pretty easy to push a few stones out of the way.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
You are still preaching. This is a discussion forum.
Preaching is frowned upon.
Behaviour that may get you banned
- Propaganda, preaching, proselytising or evangelising.
https://www.sciforums.com/threads/sciforums-site-rules.142880/
It's also frowned upon to simply post with the intent to advertize your own content elsewhere.
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davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Of course it would be supernatural, we would just have the tools to glimpse at the supernatural realm, like Ghostbusters!
Maybe billvon, just a spear up past the ribs, hanging all day, then actually remember it's the third day, time to leave to fulfil my false prophecy, I'll die with them thinking I'm God! It'll be great...
If we can measure and quantify it, it's not supernatural any more. It is then in the realm of the natural. Again, by definition.
We used to think lightning was supernatural. The reason we don't think that any more is not that lightning changed. It's that we now know how to predict it, how to measure its strength, how to protect against it and how it forms. Thus it is in the realm of the natural.
If we could measure "ghosts" (or spirits or whatever you want to call them) then they wouldn't be supernatural any more.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Whatever we categorise super natural as, it is interesting, creepy and fun to have ghosts haunting old buildings. Having tools to catch them would be super cool!
You've give me an idea for a thread!
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
This is a crucial point. A lot of these ideas are believed, not because there is evidence for them, but because people like the idea.
A bit like your assertion, made in the teeth of modern scholarship, that the gospels are historical accounts. That's not what the evidence is, as the link I provided makes clear, but you like the idea.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Hi exchemist, hope you're well.
I agree about liking the idea. A bit like supporting a football team which you would like to win the cup, when in actual fact, the team hasn't got a chance.
Some scholars say it can be used as an historical work. Others, say no.
Some people really don't want God to be real.
I agree about liking the idea. A bit like supporting a football team which you would like to win the cup, when in actual fact, the team hasn't got a chance.
Some scholars say it can be used as an historical work. Others, say no.
Some people really don't want God to be real.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Well, since you're opening the door to speculation on how and what other people think, let me kick it wide open for you.
For my part, I would be delighted if God were real.
Imagine the freedom from responsibility that would entail, having a true objective morality with teeth - an authority and can mete out praise and punishment without me having to think it through for myself. If I don't murder my neighbour it's because that authority told me not to. It would be like being a kid again, knowing there's always a parent to keep me safe and to tell me right from wrong. Man, it would be awesome to stay a kid and have my parent live forever. It's very alluring - one could very easily be tempted into living in it.
Alas, until and unless God wants to speak to me, I have to stop being a kid. It would be nice but, as an adult, I know that wishing something were real doesn't make it real.
I have to do the hard work of thinking for myself - ruminating over subjective morality, accepting that the only praise and punishment is going to come from myself or my fellow human, and generally growing up and taking responsibility for myself as an adult. I have murdered just as many people as if my parent told me not to, but when I don't murder people, it is because I have worked out for myself that it is bad.
I envy theists; they still have one foot in the garden of Eden, where they don't have to adult.
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Gawdzilla Sama
Valued Senior Member
It's not hard to imagine a god. They are imaginary.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Both of you are in the same boat; you think you have exclusive rights to the truth. And you're both angry that the rest of the world doesn't see it the way you do. Let go of the anger.
I don't disbelieve God, all I ask for is evidence. That's the lot of we flawed humans; we can't know truth, all we can do is look at the world we see and decide the most practical way to move forward in it.
Dave, you being certain of God's existence do that, and Gawdzilla, you being certain of God's non-existence do that. I simply ask for evidence that compels me to move forward as if there's a God in it.
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
Many of these scholars are religious people, actually.
Acknowledging the gospels for what they are considered to be, that is, texts to collate and amplify the stories and beliefs of the first Christians, does not imply atheism. It’s just being realistic about the likely intentions of the writers.
It is literally a historical work. It's a big part of history. It just isn't all that accurate - nor does it purport to be. It's a book of parables that a religion is founded on. It's not a history book, or a science book, or a math book (fortunately.)
I think it would be great if one of the gods were real. A guy you can ask to cure your cancer, or prevent a hurricane, or protect the innocent? That would be awesome.
There's simply no real evidence (other than, as you mentioned, people who really like the idea.)
Gawdzilla Sama
Valued Senior Member
There is no good evidence for you then. As for God, is real, then the door is open for ghoulies and ghosties and things that go bump in the night.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
I'm not sure if you're stating that or asking that. I think you're asking.
And you would be right. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence for me.
There's a preponderance of evidence that the typical person will believe in some sort of God despite the fact that there are so many varied beliefs and they can't all be right. So we know that some (most) people's beliefs must be false.
Presumably Dave White also seeks extraordinary evidence, but his bar for evidence has apparently been cleared - which is fine when it comes to personal beliefs, but he seems not to be satisfied unless other people believe what he believes.
Exactly.
Gawdzilla Sama
Valued Senior Member
The bar is very low for believers, they need a crutch and any damned thing will do.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
I don't begrudge your feelings toward believers, Gawd, but I'm not interested in just bashing them. Surely we can be critical and still civil.
I'm perfectly happy living alongside believers. (Some of my closest and most respected loved ones are Theologians.) Only when they start making public assertions that encompess others do I feel the need to challenge their assertions.
I'm perfectly happy living alongside believers. (Some of my closest and most respected loved ones are Theologians.) Only when they start making public assertions that encompess others do I feel the need to challenge their assertions.
Gawdzilla Sama
Valued Senior Member
I get death threats from believers.
There's nothing more peaceful than a dead man.
There's nothing more peaceful than a dead man.