Darwin's Theory is False

[Woody]

Hmm. I suppose I'm at a bit of a disadvantage woody. I respect your faith in your religion, but you have none in my right to reject your religion. Thus, there is nothing to discuss with you. You have only beliefs to offer. That's no route to productive discussion. It's a route to you trying to give a sermon to a gaggle of hecklers.

I'm with the hecklers really, as while I respect your beliefs... I have no respect for your application of them to the hecklers. I think you deserve the heckling for your lack of respect.

It's funny that you say you weren't being snide about your comfort in your "I'm going to heaven and you're going to burn you dirty sinner" wrap. It's most obvious that you were. You expect people to believe you because you believe the bible.

You may be bright in some areas, but philosophically/ethically - I don't see how you demostrate the slightest clue. You're a bully masquerading as a concerned friend. I respect that you believe the bible. You respect that I think it's stupid and withold your judgement of what you think's going to happen to me, or kiss my ass. Don't feel guilty because you can't save me. Worry about saving your own sorry ass.

phlog made me do it.

I don't want to be preachy -- I first provided the reference verse numbers to show what the bible said about the subject -- instead of posting the verses directly on the forum. Phlog said he read them, and could not conclude sinners went to the lake of fire according to the bible text -- so I posted the verses directly on the forum.

You're response was courteous for the most part -- but I didn't "post bible" for you to read and become defensive. I would prefer not to post bible verses unless there is no other way to make a point about what the literature says -- I didn't ask you or anyone else to believe it is true. It's merely a statement about the literature.

FYI -- here was phlog's post:

“ Originally Posted by Woody
Here's a quote from the Wikipedia:

The Christian idea of Hell is different from the Sheol of Judaism. The nature of Hell is described in the New Testament on several occasions. For example, in Matthew 3:10-12, 5:22 and 29-30, 7:29, 8:12, 22:13 and 33, 25:30 and 41-46, Luke 3:9, 12:5, 13:28, 16:19-28, and the Book of Revelation 12:9, 14:9-11, 19:20, 20:10 and 14-15, 21:8; in the Book of Revelation Hell is also mentioned as the "abyss" and "the Earth".

This debate is over.
”

Pholgistician's response:

Far from it, did you take the time to actually read those verses? They mention the word 'Hell' and being cast into 'Hell' and fire, but this really could just be the same as 'Gehenna' the PHYSICAL place where wrongdoers bodies were burned, instead of being buried properly. You really are going to have to try and get something to illustrate Hell.

Conclusion: It was requested, so I provided. Wesmorris, I'm sorry you were offended.

 

[qwerty mob]

What has all this got to do with Darwin's theory?

It's descended from simpler drivel?

 

[wesmorris]

My apologies then Woody. You do come off pretty preachy though.

 

[phlogistician]

Woody, you still haven't shown scriptural references for sinners spending eternity in Hell, have you?

Yes, the false prophet and the beast get cast into the 'lake of fire and brimstone' and are burned forever. Sinners are cast into the lake of fire, but there is a glaring omission about for how long. The OT specifically states that God does not turn his back on men forever. Now, please find a reference to specifically back up your 'spending eternity in Hell' line.

On what has this got to do with Darwin, well, people who disagree with Evolution are not doing so because they have a competing scientific theory, are they? They try and debunk Evolution, by promoting their religion. I'm doing the converse, that's all.

 

[Woody]

Pholgistician,

Rev 20:12 Says they (sinners) will be judged according to their works. Tell me what that means.

How about the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:23-24 as told by Jesus:

the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

This debate is over.

 

[phlogistician]

Woody, there are words missing in every source you cite; 'for eternity'. You said that spending eternity in hell is no joke, but so far, have failed to provide a single shred of scriptural support for your statement!

If this debate is over, it's because you have failed to prove your point.

 

[Woody]

Woody, there are words missing in every source you cite; 'for eternity'. You said that spending eternity in hell is no joke, but so far, have failed to provide a single shred of scriptural support for your statement!

If this debate is over, it's because you have failed to prove your point.

Referring to Luke 16 -- When does the torment end? Do you have a scriptural reference to prove your point?

 

[phlogistician]

Referring to Luke 16 -- When does the torment end?

When does it say it ends, Woody? Just because it doesn't give an end, doesn't imply eternity. Eternity is specified for the beast and false prophet, but nowhere else.

Do you have a scriptural reference to prove your point?

Don't try and turn this around! I'm asking for you to show where eternity is mentioned, Woody.

But, just to drive my point home, with scriptural support

Lamentations 3:31-32 (NIV):

31 For men are not cast off, by the Lord forever.
32 Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love

So it seems that 'eternity' is reserved just for the specific characters named in Revelations.

So, now not only do you need to provide scriptural support for your assertion that mortal sinners will spend eternity in Hell, but also show that the OT verse is false! You could not do the former, now you must do both.

 

[SkinWalker]

Sorry Woody. The debate never was. There simply is no reference for "hell" in the bible. You are ignoring the fact that Luke was written by its anonymous author in English, but rather in Greek. The word 'hell' you quote is really ΕΘΗΚΕ, or Hades. Hades meens unseen or is the Greek god of the underworld.

Are you suggesting that the xian bible is acknowledging polytheism or are you saying that those that piss of their god will bee "unseen" to those that "go to heaven?"

 

[phlogistician]

The word 'hell' you quote is really ΕΘΗΚΕ, or Hades. Hades meens unseen or is the Greek god of the underworld.

Are you suggesting that the xian bible is acknowledging polytheism or are you saying that those that piss of their god will bee "unseen" to those that "go to heaven?"

But get this Skinwalker, there is scriptural support that those in Hell could see those in Heaven, and vice versa, so using a word like 'Hades' is rather inappropriate, considering it's meaning.

Of course, neither place actually gets filled until after judgment day. Another scriptural nitpick, but one xtians often fall foul of.

 

[Silas]

Are we still staying this far off topic? It's hardly fare to chide Woody for his belief in eternal damnation when that's pretty much a broad "folk-theology" belief for the majority of people. You're just Christian-baiting now, which is certainly not what I come here for.

 

[SkinWalker]

I made an error in the post above, the Greek for "Hades" as printed in the oldest texts of Luke is αδη. I used the capitalized version found in a much older Greek poem with ΕΘΗΚΕ. Still, it clearly refers to a masculine being -namely, the Greek god of the Underworld. More evidence that early xians were still trying having difficulty getting past their polytheism.

 

[SkinWalker]

Are we still staying this far off topic? It's hardly fare to chide Woody for his belief in eternal damnation when that's pretty much a broad "folk-theology" belief for the majority of people. You're just Christian-baiting now, which is certainly not what I come here for.

Woody chooses the topics and the directions they take with his own words. Others call him on it and the best he can do when it gets too much for him is to say "debate over." The "baiting" is quite the other way around. Nearly every thread Woody has ever started was an attempt to bait those that don't subscribe to his particular cult.

 

[phlogistician]

Are we still staying this far off topic? It's hardly fare to chide Woody for his belief in eternal damnation when that's pretty much a broad "folk-theology" belief for the majority of people. You're just Christian-baiting now, which is certainly not what I come here for.

Not at all. Like I said earlier, people who take issue with Darwin and Evolution are not doing so because they have a superior scientific theory, but because of their religious dogma. Their central argument is that because the theory of evolution isn't perfect, and cannot explain everything, god must have filled in the blanks.

All I am doing is using the same technique against their dogma. Woody is incapable of providing scriptural support for his beliefs. If his beliefs are unfounded, so perhaps are his religious perspectives of evolution and Darwin.

Anyway, as someone who found their way out of christianity, I feel it's my obligation to help others throw off the shackles.

 

[Woody]

Woody, there are words missing in every source you cite; 'for eternity'. You said that spending eternity in hell is no joke, but so far, have failed to provide a single shred of scriptural support for your statement!

If this debate is over, it's because you have failed to prove your point.

You failed to answer my question about the rich man and Lazarus. How long does the rich man's torment last in hell. When does it stop? You keep ignoring the posts I do provide.

What does Jesus mean when he says:

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

It tells me that a sinner in hell is like a worm, and it doesn't die. Let's hear your explanation.

As I said before I don't really care what hell is like because I'm not going there. You really don't believe hell exists so it shouldn't matter to you either.

Why do billions of christians believe there is an eternal hell, but they aren't going there, while non-believers don't believe there is an eternal hell, and tell christians they are wrong about their own bible?

 

[Woody]

Woody chooses the topics and the directions they take with his own words. Others call him on it and the best he can do when it gets too much for him is to say "debate over." The "baiting" is quite the other way around. Nearly every thread Woody has ever started was an attempt to bait those that don't subscribe to his particular cult.

Devil Inside baited me on this several posts back:

nowhere in the Torah is hell described as punishment for those who think differently than G-d. in fact, the only mention of anything even remotely resembling "hell" is the word "sheol", which means "grave" or "death". i speak, read, and write biblical hebrew, so i know this to be a fact.

response?

I didn't want to talk about it then, and I would like to drop it now if I could. It doesn't help anyone on this forum. They already know about it, and I'm not trying to "thump" them. It makes me look like I am trying to preach, but I was baited to start with, and would prefer to just drop the whole thing.

So I ask the question: Is this discussion about hell helping anybody -- I suspect it is not so why don't we drop it?

 

[spuriousmonkey]

As long as we are all clear on the fact that Darwin's theory isn't false.

 

[spidergoat]

If evolution is false, then why did Christianity evolve?

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Christianity was created by semi-intelligent designers.

 

[snake river rufus]

As long as we are all clear on the fact that Darwin's theory isn't false.

Not to put too fine of a point on it, but the theory of evolution was not Darwins. His cotribution to the theory of evolution was natural selection. educated people accepted evolution for 40 some years before darwin published " On the origins of the species"