Darwin's Theory is False

Silas says,

Neither do I, but what about the force of their argument, Woody? How can you worship a manifestly Unjust God? (I'm not suggesting for a moment that you cease to worship God, just the God that sentences you to eternity years of torture.)
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Woody says: God sentences me and you both to life after death. I will be in his presense -- willingly and with his approval, and it will be love that we have forever and my love for him will never cease. Without his salvation, You will be in his presense with no place to hide -- even in hell, with all the hateful things you feel toward Him, and those feelings will burst into flames - forever. Your hatred for Him will never cease and it will become your torment.
 
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I love how there have been no instances where this alleged "god" has actually spoke to anyone in 2000+ years. WTF? Wasn't 9/11 good enough for him to appear like he did in the OT? The bastard couldn't even make an appearance for the "Chosen" during the Holocaust. Why isn't he making additions to this bible? Surely he realizes that the 1st edition is ready for the recycle bin and we need some updated info. All the shit about stoning adultresses; stoning those that don't go to church or work on saturday; avoiding women on the rag; etc, etc.

If there is a god, his dumb-ass is unemployed.
 
Giambattista said:
Tell me about hell, woody.

Tell me about God's design for His Creation, and how loving He is to send us all to Hell. Oh, when I said ALL, of course I didn't mean you!
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You didn't mean Jesus either, or those that trust Him.
 
I generally respect my fellow humans, but, for the love of god (!) how can anyone be so stupid as to fall for and follow this religious idiocy? There are Phd theologians out ther for shit sake! The power of this moronic delusion is incredible! The sheer mental lazyness and the lies told to the self are mind boggling to me. I mean, WTF? Woody sounds like a six year old talking about santa for fuck sake! I've known a few true believers well enough to come to the conclusion that they just aren't very bright, god (!) love 'em. It's amazing to me that in the 21st century we're still debating the god thing. Christ on a fucking stick! It's too much for me. Believers are all petty, frightened, self-deceivers. What a crowd of numbskulls. It's a good thing early christians and muslims didn't have nukes. The planet would be devoid of life. Sheesh!
 
" The sad thing is, you aren't sure about what you believe in, you can't be, because all the descriptions are vague at best. ”

Woody said:
I believe you are going there -- that is not what I want for you -- that is the sad part.
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So you don't know where I'm going, or for how long, and that makes you sad?

Luckily, I have less fear of the unknown!

Anyway Woody, stop wasting words. Biblical references are the only currency here. You still need to provide support for 'spending an eternity in hell'.

So far, with biblical support, we have established that;

1, The beast and the false prophet burn for ever in lake of fire and brimstone.
2, that sinners are cast into a lake of fire.
3, that this lake of fire is never quenched (good job, or the guys from No1 get off easy)
4, that God never turns his back on man for ever.

so, still need to tie mortals sinners down to that eternity bit Woody, to justify your position.

Of course then, if you can find a biblical reference (and I know damned well (pun intended) you can't), you have to show that the bible is inerrant.

Well, that too is a bit of a task.

So, you might as well give up Woody, and admit it's all based on faith, and the voices in your head.
 
Darwin's theory, with adaptations and modifications as provided by more recent work by biologists, geneticists and the like, is not false. It is correct.

For those who think the above statements are off-topic, it was a just a gentle reminder of what the thread was meant to be about.
 
Ophiolite said:
Darwin's theory, with adaptations and modifications as provided by more recent work by biologists, geneticists and the like, is not false. It is correct.

For those who think the above statements are off-topic, it was a just a gentle reminder of what the thread was meant to be about.
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Yes, this is about evolution after all. But like I said, Woody hasn't got an issue with Evolution because he has a better scientific theory, he has a problem with evolution because it differs from his dogma.

I was just falsifying his reasons for holding that dogma.
 
Hmm..

God DOES exist.

(to woody and gazillions of others)

I don't think it's a crime and it's definately a question that cannot be satisfied ontologically... so one can make up whatever they like and call it truth.

Unfortunately, certain zealot mindsets cannot or will not recognize the validity of that which they do not endorse.

To such a mindset, your guess is definately NOT as good as theirs.

In fact, you might look better toasted or headless, you heathenous infidel.

Ego?

Yah, the ego is fully gratified when filled with the righteousness of that which it sees as divine and external to itself. It is as such unburdoned with the dilemma of conscience.
 
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phlog said,

1, The beast and the false prophet burn for ever in lake of fire and brimstone
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.

According to Revelation, and they are both humans, born to a mother and a father just like any other human. So that proves at least two humans will spend an eternity in torment -- agree?

2, that sinners are cast into a lake of fire.
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According to Revelation, yes -- who is to say they are any better or worse than the false prophet and beast? If they are even worse then what do they get? Does God use a different set of scales for everyone else besides the beast and false prophet?

3,
that this lake of fire is never quenched (good job, or the guys from No1 get off easy)
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Agree.


4,
that God never turns his back on man for ever.
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Could you show me where the bible says this chapter and verse? As I said before the beast and false prophet are both men, and your whole argument collapses on that point alone.

Also, the devil and his angels are created beings, and they spend their eternity in torment. What makes you think man is any better? What did they do that is worse and deserves an eternity in torment vs. your claim for humans?

so, still need to tie mortals sinners down to that eternity bit Woody, to justify your position.
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I don't need to justify a position. All major christian denominations believe there is an eternal hell where people are tormented forever. I've never heard anyone argue over it, and I've heard it preached at every church I've been to for the last 23 years (a lot of churches). Any church that preaches about Christ also preaches about hell because Jesus had a lot to say about it, and it's not a good place to be.
 
Woody said:
All major christian denominations believe there is an eternal hell where people are tormented forever. I've never heard anyone argue over it, and I've heard it preached at every church I've been to for the last 23 years (a lot of churches).
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You really should get out more.
 
But like I said, Woody hasn't got an issue with Evolution because he has a better scientific theory, he has a problem with evolution because it differs from his dogma.
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How soon we forget! I've already explained the misunderstanding. I don't have a problem with evolution -- as I said before -- it is good that life can adapt -- very good. If life was created to evolve -- then fine -- I see no problem here.

The problem is -- so many people on both sides of the fence are defensive, and I explained that in the original post (which I edited). As a result, the communication is ineffective and misunderstood.

I think that is a pretty fair assessment -- evolution has bad PR, and that is partially because of the way it is explained. On the christian side of the fence -- I think people should have a little more faith in their God when he says " you shall know the truth and it will set you free." I have been set free of the delimma by realizing both evolution and creation are true, and I don't see a biblical contradiction. Evolution possibly could explain, for example, where the people from Nod came from (the ones that married Adam's children) -- I don't know.
 
Woody said:
According to Revelation, and they are both humans, born to a mother and a father just like any other human. So that proves at least two humans will spend an eternity in torment -- agree?
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The Beast is Human? No. I don't agree on that one. False prophet? Not sure, is he sent by, or created by Satan? I need to check some sources before I can comment. Even if they were human though, it changes nothing, as the rest of us are not assured such a fate.


According to Revelation, yes -- who is to say they are any better or worse than the false prophet and beast? If they are even worse then what do they get? Does God use a different set of scales for everyone else besides the beast and false prophet?
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Who is to say? The bible says! It clearly states that the false prophet and the beast spend eternity on the lake of fire and brimstone, while making NO such claim about mortal sinners.

Could you show me where the bible says this chapter and verse? As I said before the beast and false prophet are both men, and your whole argument collapses on that point alone.
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You offered no scriptural support for your assertion that the beast and the false prophet are simple mortals, so that point is far from proven. If your argument hangs on that point, that point needs proving. Please provide support for this assertion too, therefore.

Chapter and verse about god not turning his back for eternity;

Lamentations 3:31-32 (NIV):

31 For men are not cast off, by the Lord forever.
32 Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love

How can that passage be miscontrued? Hell, therefore, cannot be eternal. You must falsify this passage to prove your assertion. Of course, if you succeed in falsifying part of a bible, the whole subject is open for critique. As you have no scriptural support for an eternal Hell, and scriptural support for a transient one, I think it's best for you to to consider that you may have been misled, or you are in danger of undermining everything that you believe in.

Also, the devil and his angels are created beings, and they spend their eternity in torment. What makes you think man is any better? What did they do that is worse and deserves an eternity in torment vs. your claim for humans?
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Quite simply, because that's the way the bible says it.

I don't need to justify a position. All major christian denominations believe there is an eternal hell where people are tormented forever. I've never heard anyone argue over it, and I've heard it preached at every church I've been to for the last 23 years (a lot of churches). Any church that preaches about Christ also preaches about hell because Jesus had a lot to say about it, and it's not a good place to be.
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That's being selective, and is rather underhanded tactic. If you are to win this debate, you must do so honestly. You choose who is 'major', and you select 'christian', to conveniently reflect your personal beliefs. Sorry, that's not good enough. Biblical references are the only currency here bub. That so many people got it so wrong, for so long, is why your alleged messiah was sent to earth 2000 years ago. People getting it wrong again, for so long, is not news, therefore.

Scriptural support for your argument please, or I must insist that you concede this debate.
 
phlog:

The Beast is Human? No. I don't agree on that one.
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Yes, I'm afraid so. It looks like it is none other than Judas Iscariot the Son of Perdition:

2nd Thes 2:3-4
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
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So the son of perdition is a man. A man is a human, or do you disagree?

Jesus says in John 17:12

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
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This makes Judas the son of perdition.

Rev 13:18

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
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Use a little wisdom and you can understand it is indeed a man.


Phlog says:

Who is to say? The bible says! It clearly states that the false prophet and the beast spend eternity on the lake of fire and brimstone, while making NO such claim about mortal sinners.
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But they (beast and false prophet) are mortal sinners. So you are wrong.

You offered no scriptural support for your assertion that the beast and the false prophet are simple mortals, so that point is far from proven. If your argument hangs on that point, that point needs proving. Please provide support for this assertion too, therefore.
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Yes I have, it is clear that the beast is the "son of perdition" and he is a man. He is called "the man of sin" how much plainer can it be?


That's being selective, and is rather underhanded tactic. If you are to win this debate, you must do so honestly. You choose who is 'major', and you select 'christian', to conveniently reflect your personal beliefs.
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Call it whatever you want, but I'm just making an observation: I never met an atheist that believes in an eternal hell with torments, and I never met a christian that believes hell is slumberland.


Lamentations 3:31-32 (NIV):

31 For men are not cast off, by the Lord forever.
32 Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love

How can that passage be miscontrued? Hell, therefore, cannot be eternal. You must falsify this passage to prove your assertion. Of course, if you succeed in falsifying part of a bible, the whole subject is open for critique. As you have no scriptural support for an eternal Hell, and scriptural support for a transient one, I think it's best for you to to consider that you may have been misled, or you are in danger of undermining everything that you believe in.
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Your own point proves itself wrong. Where does the bible say sinners will be removed from the lake of fire and given a second chance? Reinstated as it were. You are grasping for straws and there aren't any.

Revelations 14:11 is the final coffin nail for your argument. It says:

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Whoever worships the beast will be tormented forever, and they shall have no rest forever.

As they say in geometry: QED

Your argument on hell is all washed up.

Here it is in the OT as well:

Dan 12:2

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
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Matthew 25:41,46

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
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"Everlasting" means there is no end to the punishment.

Isn't it odd that an atheist is going to tell christians what to believe about our bible and about hell?

Atheists don't even believe there is a God so why are we arguing about hell anyway?
 
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However, since without Judas, Christ could not have fulfilled his sacrifice and thus saved the believers, Judas must be a good guy. Which by analogy makes Darwin a good guy too, from the fundamentalist Christian perspective. Or am I missing something simple?
 
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