Come and attack Christian belief please.

[Vienna]

Originally posted by answers
Vienna said: "Now, tell me if I'm wrong I but thought various "people" wrote books of the Bible at different times.

You say God wrote it. Please Explain."

My Answer: Tell me if I use a pen to write a letter, who writes the letter. Should I write:

Dear Paper

...........

From Pen

?

No, the pen is the tool, the paper is also a tool, who the letter is from, and who it is to, stays the same regardless of the tools used to write and recieve it.

Thereforethe Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are lies for they should read "The Gospels according to God, God, God and God by whoever. "The letters from God" written by"whoever" using various "Pens" on various "Bits of writing material".

Now the people who wrote the Bible were tools of God. God used the people to write the Bible, just like we use a pen to write a letter. We are all servants of God. If a leader commands an army to attack a certain place, who is the one responsible for the attack, is it the leader or the soldiers serving him? If a master orders a servant to bring a message to a person, and the message makes the person who gets it, angry, who is responsible for that anger causing message? It is the master, not the servant.

I find this a very weak attempt using poor logic to prove a point. Why can't you give me a solid answer?

Now I believe that If God had written the Bible it would never need to be translated, it would never be in a certain "tongue". I believe it would be available to be read by anyone in the world without the need for translation, without the need for theoligians, and WITHOUT discrepencies.

Prove me wrong.

 

[Vienna]

Originally posted by answers
For God gave us a logical mind, that fills us in on the things the Bible leaves out.

Therefore if I say that "God is a figment of mans imagination" am I using Gods gift?

It is said that if I don't not accept Jesus as saviour I will go to hell. But how can I go to hell if I'm using a gift from God?

 

[Mogget]

I find this a very weak attempt using poor logic to prove a point. Why can't you give me a solid answer?

Now I believe that If God had written the Bible it would never need to be translated, it would never be in a certain "tongue". I believe it would be available to be read by anyone in the world without the need for translation, without the need for theoligians, and WITHOUT discrepencies.

Prove me wrong.

The books were not physically written by G-d. It says so in Duet that when Moses had finished writing the Laws and so on. The prophets wrote most of the bible (OT), to be a prophet you either spoke with G-d directly, through the angels or via dream. Now you have to remember these prophets spoke a particular language, they wrote what G-d had transitted to them down in the language they knew. If they knew English then it would have been in english.

 

[Godless]

I like this guy answers...

If anything, his simple mind, nose buried in the bible is a comic relief for my mornings.

Quote: (Answer: If the Bible told us everything about life then it would take more then a persons whole life to read it. God gave us the gift of logic so lets use it.)

Using the word "logic", with the most ilogical beign conceived by man, is quite a joke to me.

Certainly by his answers, answers does not understand the concept of "free will".

If you have an omnipotent beign, which is omniscient. That it knows the outcome of any event, then there is no free will.

There is free will, so this would make your supreme beign, not omnipotent nor omniscient, therefore god does not exist.

For simpleton minds:

If god is omnipotent, this means god would have all knowledge of past present and future, no event has ever happened, nor will happen without his knowledge, if god knows the outcome of events before they happen, then he would have direct knowledge of man's decissions, rendering our free will, null. Non-existent.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/goddeniesfreewill.html

Venting on some more and going forward;
Quote answers: (Now the people who wrote the Bible were tools of God. God used the people to write the Bible, just like we use a pen to write a letter.)

If the above is true, then these men had no free will!!.

Answers, your friend gave a typical apolegetic answer to hell's dilema.

Hell & heaven are just tools, tools used to manipulate the massess by intimidation, do god's bid or otherwise you'll end up in hell!.

To me is just rediculous not to see it any other way; i.e.

I have a girlfriend I love her dearly, though I find that her love his fading from me, I get a gun place it upon her head, and order her by "force" to love me or other wise I'll kill her!.

The above is the threat used by theologians concerning heaven and hell. God loves you, though don't let his love slip from your heart, if you do, god will send your soul to hell!!.

This reward/punishment after death, for the works during our lives, is nothing more than mere threats used to manipulate and decieve the people who fall for such notions.

Quote: (lol it's answers like this that make me wish I didn't have to wait 2 years before I go to Bible college.) good!!

Education of any form is a good thing, I know of some individuals who have gone to bible college and come out atheists!!. LOL.


Godless.

 

[answers]

Trying to make an atheist give even a little ground in a debate, even when the atheist knows that his argument is flawed, is like an ant trying to eat an elephant. How's the joke go? -- How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time! --

Unfortunately it is going to take an eternity for an ant to eat an elephant, and it's going to take an eternity for me to even start correcting your blatant ignorance for anything to do with the Bible. I give you credit for knowing about your own beliefs, but you lack greatly in your knowledge about others'. I think your problem is that you look into the Bible to find problems, yet you don't put the effort into finding answers to the probems you encounter. Just posting on an anti-Christian site won't answer many of your questions. Words of advice: read a commentary, and read some apologetics. If you don't like reading, go to this forum site www.theologyforums.com I've put the effort into finding answers for your problems, now it's your turn. In the past I have been able to answer all the questions an individual atheist had and he became a Christian, however he was not an elephant.

Anyway I'm goin up to vist my nefew in a few days (YAY), and in those days before then, I have to do heaps of stuff. PLUS this is my holiday time. So I'm sure to much rejoicing I say farewell, may you seek and find answers. For those who seek shall find.

Cya's it's been interesting answering all your questions, and you've definetly motivated me to learn more about the Bible and other beliefs, so for that thanks heaps.

P.S I have left a message on theologyforums.com to come over to this site to help you guys out with your questions. If they will come over or not, I don't know, but keep a look out.

 

[Mogget]

Hell & heaven are just tools, tools used to manipulate the massess by intimidation, do god's bid or otherwise you'll end up in hell!.

I agree. This notion of hell started with the advent of Christianity, adopted from Greek/Roman beliefs to scare. I find that Christians and Muslims are far more worried about where they end up in the afterlife and who has more rights to heaven than most other religions.

 

[Vienna]

Now I believe that If God had written the Bible it would never need to be translated, it would never be in a certain "tongue". I believe it would be available to be read by anyone in the world without the need for translation, without the need for theoligians, and WITHOUT discrepencies.

Prove me wrong.

I would like to hear "Answers" answer to this, no offence Mogget.

Originally posted by Mogget
The books were not physically written by G-d. It says so in Duet that when Moses had finished writing the Laws and so on. The prophets wrote most of the bible (OT), to be a prophet you either spoke with G-d directly, through the angels or via dream. Now you have to remember these prophets spoke a particular language, they wrote what G-d had transitted to them down in the language they knew. If they knew English then it would have been in english.

I can't but help quoting Godless here: "If the above is true, then these men had no free will!!."

And if these prophets were messengers of God why didn't God give them the tools to communicate with all "tongues" of the world.

Mogget you are a braver man than me, for I too have attempted to answer questions aimed at "Answers" only to find myself at the end of insults from him for interfering.

 

[Vienna]

Re: I like this guy answers...

Originally posted by Godless
If anything, his simple mind, nose buried in the bible is a comic relief for my mornings.

Quote: (Answer: If the Bible told us everything about life then it would take more then a persons whole life to read it. God gave us the gift of logic so lets use it.)

Using the word "logic", with the most ilogical beign conceived by man, is quite a joke to me.

Certainly by his answers, answers does not understand the concept of "free will".

If you have an omnipotent beign, which is omniscient. That it knows the outcome of any event, then there is no free will.

There is free will, so this would make your supreme beign, not omnipotent nor omniscient, therefore god does not exist.

For simpleton minds:

If god is omnipotent, this means god would have all knowledge of past present and future, no event has ever happened, nor will happen without his knowledge, if god knows the outcome of events before they happen, then he would have direct knowledge of man's decissions, rendering our free will, null. Non-existent.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/goddeniesfreewill.html

Venting on some more and going forward;
Quote answers: (Now the people who wrote the Bible were tools of God. God used the people to write the Bible, just like we use a pen to write a letter.)

If the above is true, then these men had no free will!!.

Answers, your friend gave a typical apolegetic answer to hell's dilema.

Hell & heaven are just tools, tools used to manipulate the massess by intimidation, do god's bid or otherwise you'll end up in hell!.

To me is just rediculous not to see it any other way; i.e.

I have a girlfriend I love her dearly, though I find that her love his fading from me, I get a gun place it upon her head, and order her by "force" to love me or other wise I'll kill her!.

The above is the threat used by theologians concerning heaven and hell. God loves you, though don't let his love slip from your heart, if you do, god will send your soul to hell!!.

This reward/punishment after death, for the works during our lives, is nothing more than mere threats used to manipulate and decieve the people who fall for such notions.

Quote: (lol it's answers like this that make me wish I didn't have to wait 2 years before I go to Bible college.) good!!

Education of any form is a good thing, I know of some individuals who have gone to bible college and come out atheists!!. LOL.


Godless.

Good answers.

I haven't seen anything as convincing come from "Answers" yet. Maybe he can suprise us all, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[Mogget]

I can't but help quoting Godless here: "If the above is true, then these men had no free will!!."

Depends on what you call free will. There is a story about a prophet who despite being given his orders by G-d went against them. Could have been Josiah can't remember.
Moses had complete contol over himself at all times. When G-d called for him, he went, he could have decided not to go, yet he decided to go. There is a Jewish tradition that during the time of David there were close to a million prophets roaming the land. They accepted their duty as being a prophet, much as I have accepted to work for the company I work for and abide by their rules.

Mogget you are a braver man than me, for I too have attempted to answer questions aimed at "Answers" only to find myself at the end of insults from him for interfering.

Answers doesn't have the answers to everything (neither do I), he/she can deal with it after all it is a forum. If I want to answer a question then I have every right to. Simple as that. If answers wants a one on one then they can PM.

 

[Mogget]

And if these prophets were messengers of God why didn't God give them the tools to communicate with all "tongues" of the world.

Who in that day and age would understand them if they start gibbering on in some foreign language. Some had secretarys to write it down. Something that needs to be said is that the OT was being written it was only for the Jewish people Forget what christianity preaches about it being for mankind. I know it sound rather chosiness.

 

[Vienna]

Originally posted by answers
Trying to make an atheist give even a little ground in a debate, even when the atheist knows that his argument is flawed, is like an ant trying to eat an elephant. How's the joke go? -- How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time! --

And what do you do with an argument which you think is flawed, point out and correct the flaws, but you can't.

Words of advice: read a commentary, and read some apologetics. If you don't like reading, go to this forum site www.theologyforums.com

And there I was thinking you didn't need any help!

I've put the effort into finding answers for your problems,

You haven't answered any of them convincingly.

So I'm sure to much rejoicing I say farewell, may you seek and find answers.

Whats that saying?

If you can't stand the heat.........

I can see the tail between your legs as you run for cover. You have not impressed me one bit. I would also say that you are far from qualified to speak with expertise on Christianity, and you are doing it more harm than good.

You are the weakest link.... Goodbye

 

[Vienna]

Originally posted by Mogget
Answers doesn't have the answers to everything (neither do I), he/she can deal with it after all it is a forum. If I want to answer a question then I have every right to. Simple as that. If answers wants a one on one then they can PM.

Yes thats exactly what I thought - so I tried to answer some questions.

Then "Answers" wrote this........

Originally posted by answers
Vienna, not meaning this in a bad way, but shut up and get out of my thread. Your answers scare me. They are so unbelievably cruddy that my stomach sunk when I read them. This thread is for attacks on Christianity, I'm the one defending and answering, not you. Make your own thread if you want to give out short and erroneous hollow bull crud answers to some very good questions. Please learn about Christianity before you try to preach it.

Ah well, thats Christians for you...LOL!

 

[BigBlueHead]

Answers:

It's nice that all your theologian friends have explanations for what hell would be like... I want to know why people believe in it when it doesn't seem to be in the Bible, but rather just an invention to cow the unimaginative.

In Paradise Lost there's a pretty famous line from Satan - "It is better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven." In a somewhat similar fashion, there are many people who would choose eternal suffering rather than death, which is ceasing to exist. For someone who lived in older times, and was no stranger to pain in their everyday life, eternal torment (which would imply eternal life) probably wouldn't hold the sting that it seems to hold for people today.

Even today, people read books about Vampires, who live eternally in various forms of torment, and some find this idea romantic rather than repulsive. Simply put, eternal torment is not that scary. Ceasing to exist is scarier for a lot of people.

On the other hand, your theologian pals don't seem to be able to even conceive of "death" as equating to "ceasing to exist". For some reason Hell seems indelibly ingrained in their minds, and yours, when there is no literary support for it in the Bible that I know of.

So, basically, you didn't answer my question. Where is the literary support for Hell?

 

[BigBlueHead]

Godless: The link you gave us doesn't argue that there cannot be more than one kind of existence. It only claims that existence must be observed to exist.

I personally believe that it is possible for a thing to exist without being observed; I think it's shortsighted to assume that an object must be observed to exist.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by Vienna
you can only realise the existence of God through Faith.

Quite true eh?

LOL.

I might have chosen to replace the word "realize" with something else, but as you wish.

Your statement is MOST amusing though as is wholly telling of the whimsical nature of your belief (assuming you believe what you typed and that you believe in god).

I can realize the existence of a lot of things through faith no?

Originally posted by Vienna
Faith demonstrates the existence of God

Generally faith indicates the existence of fantasy.

 

[Mogget]

Originally posted by Mogget
Answers doesn't have the answers to everything (neither do I), he/she can deal with it after all it is a forum. If I want to answer a question then I have every right to. Simple as that. If answers wants a one on one then they can PM.


Yes thats exactly what I thought - so I tried to answer some questions.

Then "Answers" wrote this........

quoteriginally posted by answers
Vienna, not meaning this in a bad way, but shut up and get out of my thread. Your answers scare me. They are so unbelievably cruddy that my stomach sunk when I read them. This thread is for attacks on Christianity, I'm the one defending and answering, not you. Make your own thread if you want to give out short and erroneous hollow bull crud answers to some very good questions. Please learn about Christianity before you try to preach it.



Ah well, thats Christians for you...LOL!

Ahhh, I get it now. So this person wants people to attack christianity so they can answer the questions even though there are people out there who may actually know a bit more than them. Only one problem with this, some of the questions are not about christianity, but about Judaism, and like it or not Christians are not the authority there.

 

[BigBlueHead]

Uhhh... Christians are the authority on what Christians think about Judaism, and unfortunately this is an argument about what Christians believe... sorry.

 

[Mogget]

Uhhh... Christians are the authority on what Christians think about Judaism, and unfortunately this is an argument about what Christians believe... sorry.

What they think is Judaism is not Judaism.
I mean Answers can't even answer them correctly and just digs his/her hole even deeper to the point that people are ridiculing his/her beliefs. I know they asked for it, why did they then? To me it seems idiotic. When people start asking questions about the OT then it goes beyond the realm of it just being Christianity.

Soemone wrote, don't preach what you don't know (in refernce to christianisty) , this also applies here.

 

[spidergoat]

Proof the bible is not the word of God-

In Leviticus there is described a cure for leprosy:

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 14:2 This shall be the law of the leper in the day of his cleansing: He shall be brought unto the priest: 14:3 And the priest shall go forth out of the camp; and the priest shall look, and, behold, if the plague of leprosy be healed in the leper; 14:4 Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop: 14:5 And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water: 14:6 As for the living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water: 14:7 And he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field.

It could be tested; find someone with leprosy, and see if this manipulation of birds will cure it. If not, then the bible is not the word of God, because God should know that playing with birds does not cure leprosy.

 

[Mogget]

In Leviticus there is described a cure for leprosy:

quote:And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 14:2 This shall be the law of the leper in the day of his cleansing: He shall be brought unto the priest: 14:3 And the priest shall go forth out of the camp; and the priest shall look, and, behold, if the plague of leprosy be healed in the leper; 14:4 Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop: 14:5 And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water: 14:6 As for the living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water: 14:7 And he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field.

It could be tested; find someone with leprosy, and see if this manipulation of birds will cure it. If not, then the bible is not the word of God, because God should know that playing with birds does not cure leprosy.

Since Answers will be away for a while. I'll answer. Sorry it is not a christian POV.

This is not a cure for leprosy. If you read it carefully you will see this "4:3 And the priest shall go forth out of the camp; and the priest shall look, and, behold, if the plague of leprosy be healed in the leper;" it tells us that the Leper is not a actually a leper anymore. The ritual with the birds and all that is a "welcome back to the tribe" cleansing ritual.