Come and attack Christian belief please.
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N.B. I haven't read all the posts, some of my responses might be repeated.
First, I want to declare my belief in god and I think to most people, the definition of god is quite different, some might think god is male, some female, some are just not quite sure, but god just is.
I don't believe that we are sinners. It is just something religion made up to restrict our behaviours therefore controlling us. The story of Adam and Eve to me is more a blessing as they have created the world of relatives. Let me explain this further. In order for we to experience who we are, we need the opposite of who we are. For example, someone who is 2 metres tall knows that, but imagine everything in this world is 2 metres tall, the trees, tables, everything, this person will never be able to experience being 2 metres tall. In order for that person to be able to experience that, there has to be something that is not 2 metres tall. This is the same with everything. Adams and Even lived in paradise, but they did not know it, until they do, we call that sins, but rather it's a blessing which allowed all human experience. Therefore, there is no such thing as the original sin, but original blessing. There are no sins, everything is a blessing.
N.B. I haven't read all the posts, some of my responses might be repeated.
First, I want to declare my belief in god and I think to most people, the definition of god is quite different, some might think god is male, some female, some are just not quite sure, but god just is.
I don't believe that we are sinners. It is just something religion made up to restrict our behaviours therefore controlling us. The story of Adam and Eve to me is more a blessing as they have created the world of relatives. Let me explain this further. In order for we to experience who we are, we need the opposite of who we are. For example, someone who is 2 metres tall knows that, but imagine everything in this world is 2 metres tall, the trees, tables, everything, this person will never be able to experience being 2 metres tall. In order for that person to be able to experience that, there has to be something that is not 2 metres tall. This is the same with everything. Adams and Even lived in paradise, but they did not know it, until they do, we call that sins, but rather it's a blessing which allowed all human experience. Therefore, there is no such thing as the original sin, but original blessing. There are no sins, everything is a blessing.
Yes, god changes, nothing in this universe is constant. To me god is everything that is, and everything that is not, and he/she/it or whatever you call god, is defined by us. We are god experienced. We are part of god, we are god's son and daughters, therefore, we are sums of god, and we are god (many people will find this offending, but I'm just telling my truth)
My answer to that is that there is no hell, just heaven. Many religion had depicted a god that is similar to the way we behave that is with hatred, who punishes us for not doing what he/she/it wants us to do. This is all made up. Why would god do that? As I said before, everything that exists serve to allow us to experience who we are. Therefore nothing should be looked down on. God had gave us free will, but what would be the use of free will if we are going to be sent to hell if we do something god doesn't like? Just like things, all actions also define human beings and are blessings, even though sometimes it doesn't seem to be.
I stand corrected, thank you!
Hevene,
It is so nice to know that someone else shares a similar view on things. You have expressed almost to the tee what I feel.
The ability to reject "eden" is the ability to achieve self determination, thus free will.
The story of the "apple" is all about having the courage to stand up and make a decision even in the face of severe retribution.
God as such new exactly what choice Adam and Eve would make and as a parent does when he sees his children start to make decisions for them selves no doubt smiled to himself and thought...Job well done.
Adam and Eve are an analogy of the creation of free will and the ability to reject Gods (parental) generousity so as to create a life of your own.
Also it may be worth noting that by getting Adam and Eve to be freewilled also meant that God also achieved a greater degree of freedom in that like a parent, to have to make decisions always for your children binds the parent to the child and therefore when the children leave the nest the parents achieve greater freewill themselves. So in reflection God has given himself free will.
Hmmmm.......interesting concept...yes?
Again, Hevene, thank you for your insights
It is so nice to know that someone else shares a similar view on things. You have expressed almost to the tee what I feel.
The ability to reject "eden" is the ability to achieve self determination, thus free will.
The story of the "apple" is all about having the courage to stand up and make a decision even in the face of severe retribution.
God as such new exactly what choice Adam and Eve would make and as a parent does when he sees his children start to make decisions for them selves no doubt smiled to himself and thought...Job well done.
Adam and Eve are an analogy of the creation of free will and the ability to reject Gods (parental) generousity so as to create a life of your own.
Also it may be worth noting that by getting Adam and Eve to be freewilled also meant that God also achieved a greater degree of freedom in that like a parent, to have to make decisions always for your children binds the parent to the child and therefore when the children leave the nest the parents achieve greater freewill themselves. So in reflection God has given himself free will.
Hmmmm.......interesting concept...yes?
Again, Hevene, thank you for your insights
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I want to suggest a few books, "Conversations with God" and "The New Revelations" by Neale Donale Walsch. I think it is time for us to start exploring possibilities in a world of much trouble and don't just take other people's words as our own truth.
Just also want to add that I am not here to attack anyone's belief about god for that I think there is no such thing as right and wrong but rather what works and what doesn't. Given what we want, ie a world of peace, love and tolerance, many of our old belief systems just nolonger work. I hope anyone can have the courage to finish those books, for what it talked about can at first can seem threatening to some, but please realise this is a process towards a higher understanding, an expansion on our understanding of life and ourselve.
Just also want to add that I am not here to attack anyone's belief about god for that I think there is no such thing as right and wrong but rather what works and what doesn't. Given what we want, ie a world of peace, love and tolerance, many of our old belief systems just nolonger work. I hope anyone can have the courage to finish those books, for what it talked about can at first can seem threatening to some, but please realise this is a process towards a higher understanding, an expansion on our understanding of life and ourselve.
I ahve often held to this concept of evolution by success. (Not a new Idea I might add)
What works and what doesn't to me is much the same thing. And yes I agree this is of higher impact than concepts of right and wrong.
Success succeeds and failure fails...very simple logic....but true.
What works and what doesn't to me is much the same thing. And yes I agree this is of higher impact than concepts of right and wrong.
Success succeeds and failure fails...very simple logic....but true.
It is this constant arguments of what is right and what is wrong that is holding us back. Because most of us will do anything to hold on to what we belief that is right, just look at the history, even when what you think is right just doesn't serve us. By looking at what works and what doesn't, it is much easier for the society to imporove on itself, allowing changes to be much much quickly in a time of need.
Oh also about failure. Failure should be just used as a tool for improvements, it is a gift through which we can recongnise what we need and do what we have to do to achieve what we need. Success can also be a failure if we stop growing once we which success. So never stop growing, always create yourself anew, become the next grandest version of yourself.
YES! I FINALLY GOT READING THROUGH THE WHOLE THREAD!! 
Wheew. Ok, let's see....Dam! Answers left. Anyway, if you read this Answers, contact me via PM. I would like to have a discussion with you. Thanks.
Now for some replies.
Islam around the world:
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/
http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/islam/islam.html
http://www.sim.org/simnow/religions/islam.html
http://www.iol.ie/~afifi/BICNews/Islam/islam21.htm
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/Fastest/australia.html
http://classic.sacbee.com/news/news/old/local01_20010701.html
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/Fastest/third.html
But in the Bible, God is given the characteristics of man. To feel emotion, have humans parts, etc. How is it that he cannot sin?
Ok, but can you elaborate on this.
Can you tell me where you get the idea that Jesus did some sins?
My question is why does it say that these are the ways to Heaven while in another verse, it says, this is the only way to Heaven? It seems as if God changes his decree according to Christianity.
What do you mean by "follow Jesus"?
Wheew. Ok, let's see....Dam! Answers left. Anyway, if you read this Answers, contact me via PM. I would like to have a discussion with you. Thanks.
Now for some replies.
Originally posted by Mucker
Fastest growing since when?
Islam around the world:
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/
http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/islam/islam.html
http://www.sim.org/simnow/religions/islam.html
http://www.iol.ie/~afifi/BICNews/Islam/islam21.htm
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/Fastest/australia.html
http://classic.sacbee.com/news/news/old/local01_20010701.html
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/Fastest/third.html
But in the Bible, God is given the characteristics of man. To feel emotion, have humans parts, etc. How is it that he cannot sin?
Ok, but can you elaborate on this.
Can you tell me where you get the idea that Jesus did some sins?
My question is why does it say that these are the ways to Heaven while in another verse, it says, this is the only way to Heaven? It seems as if God changes his decree according to Christianity.
What do you mean by "follow Jesus"?
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
Being a Christian
SPIDERGOAT:
Quoting from your posting:
"God can control our will, but chooses not to. Controlling our will is like cheating at cards, it can give you a certain outcome, but you won't find out who the best players are.
Hey, that wasn't so hard, it's kind of fun to be christian!"
...................................YOU ARE A NUT! ........Actually, that is not a bad answer at all. I am having a sleepless kind of thing so was browsing. This will probably be my only contribution here. It is a bit too muddy for me to wade. Enjoyed this though! PMT
SPIDERGOAT:
Quoting from your posting:
"God can control our will, but chooses not to. Controlling our will is like cheating at cards, it can give you a certain outcome, but you won't find out who the best players are.
Hey, that wasn't so hard, it's kind of fun to be christian!"
...................................YOU ARE A NUT! ........Actually, that is not a bad answer at all. I am having a sleepless kind of thing so was browsing. This will probably be my only contribution here. It is a bit too muddy for me to wade. Enjoyed this though! PMT
I think it's called Grace.
By the grace of God go I ( permission )
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
Now we are catching on.
Q.Q. Did not know you frequented this site. I like your answer too. My goodness, aren't we just being such good kids.
PMT
Q.Q. Did not know you frequented this site. I like your answer too. My goodness, aren't we just being such good kids.
PMT
Hevene, you said “I want to suggest a few books, "Conversations with God" and "The New Revelations" by Neale Donale Walsch. I think it is time for us to start exploring possibilities in a world of much trouble and don't just take other people's words as our own truth.”
Wouldn’t this just be taking other people’s words as our own truth, in this case Neale Donale Walsch’s??
You said “Just also want to add that I am not here to attack anyone's belief about god for that I think there is no such thing as right and wrong but rather what works and what doesn't.”
Is this statement right or wrong? You seem to be saying that you believe that it is right that there is no such thing as there being right or wrong….????
You said “Given what we want, ie a world of peace, love and tolerance, many of our old belief systems just nolonger work.”
Pragmatism is no way to build a worldview. For Hitler, it “worked” to be anti-Semitic. It “worked” to kill as many Jews as possible in gas chambers. It “worked” for Lenin and Stalin to wipe out millions of their fellow Russians, simply because their political and religious views differed. Is that what you really want to say? That Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc etc were not really wrong?
Lastly, you said “I hope anyone can have the courage to finish those books, for what it talked about can at first can seem threatening to some, but please realise this is a process towards a higher understanding, an expansion on our understanding of life and ourselve.”
No offence, but I will stick with the One who created us, namely the Triune God of the Bible. I know that this can seem threatening to some, but if you think about it, who better to go to in order to get a higher understanding of ourselves? You can’t get much higher than God, can you?
Wouldn’t this just be taking other people’s words as our own truth, in this case Neale Donale Walsch’s??
You said “Just also want to add that I am not here to attack anyone's belief about god for that I think there is no such thing as right and wrong but rather what works and what doesn't.”
Is this statement right or wrong? You seem to be saying that you believe that it is right that there is no such thing as there being right or wrong….????
You said “Given what we want, ie a world of peace, love and tolerance, many of our old belief systems just nolonger work.”
Pragmatism is no way to build a worldview. For Hitler, it “worked” to be anti-Semitic. It “worked” to kill as many Jews as possible in gas chambers. It “worked” for Lenin and Stalin to wipe out millions of their fellow Russians, simply because their political and religious views differed. Is that what you really want to say? That Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc etc were not really wrong?
Lastly, you said “I hope anyone can have the courage to finish those books, for what it talked about can at first can seem threatening to some, but please realise this is a process towards a higher understanding, an expansion on our understanding of life and ourselve.”
No offence, but I will stick with the One who created us, namely the Triune God of the Bible. I know that this can seem threatening to some, but if you think about it, who better to go to in order to get a higher understanding of ourselves? You can’t get much higher than God, can you?
As the "Wiggles" sing, "smile and be merry" or was it "style of the many" or was it "Smile and be many" dear dear me I have to learn to listen better
Personally I think Hevene has much to offer by the idea of what works being right and what doesn't work being wrong. The problem as KJB pointed out, it may very well be determined by who is the beneficiary.
As KJB states, persons such as Hitler and Stalin etc operated on the premise of what was right and wrong for them, much to the detriment of the people they led and the target of their genocidal tendencies. It worked for them but obviously it didn't for others.
"Success with out the values of rightness can be wrongful success"
All the same Hevene's general thrust about belief being a possible obstacle and that right and wrong, success and failure deserves some consideration.
Quite often we seem to forget to look for what the person is actually trying to propose and get all hung up on the way it's proposed.
This is why I see value in Hevene's posts and also for that matter everyone elses posts as well.
As KJB states, persons such as Hitler and Stalin etc operated on the premise of what was right and wrong for them, much to the detriment of the people they led and the target of their genocidal tendencies. It worked for them but obviously it didn't for others.
"Success with out the values of rightness can be wrongful success"
All the same Hevene's general thrust about belief being a possible obstacle and that right and wrong, success and failure deserves some consideration.
Quite often we seem to forget to look for what the person is actually trying to propose and get all hung up on the way it's proposed.
This is why I see value in Hevene's posts and also for that matter everyone elses posts as well.
Thank you Quantum Quack, it's good to see someone appreciating my posts.
Originally posted by KJB
You'll be surprised, the words from these books contained many ideas that were never told and is very confronting and challenging. It is not one of those religion book, it is against organised religion and explored many other possibilities that WORKS (many not clear to humans). (not right or wrong but what works and what doesn't). It also relates science and religion together. If you are ready for such challenge, then try it.
Originally posted by KJB
You'll be surprised, the words from these books contained many ideas that were never told and is very confronting and challenging. It is not one of those religion book, it is against organised religion and explored many other possibilities that WORKS (many not clear to humans). (not right or wrong but what works and what doesn't). It also relates science and religion together. If you are ready for such challenge, then try it.
Hevene, You are going to have to sell the idea of reading these books better. So often there are posts suggesting radical or other ideas in books or Urls and from what I have seen most of them will get poo pooed simply because the post imply that the reader is currently stupid, mis-lead or just plain ignorant. And it's so easy to offend.
You'll have to go to the trouble of showing why we should bother to go to the Challenge that you recommend.
You'll have to go to the trouble of showing why we should bother to go to the Challenge that you recommend.