Come and attack Christian belief please.

Many answers

Non! suitable.

First of all, my take on (sin) is that everyone is born in sin "Original Sin")? If this is so, this is a slap on Justice, it is a slap on reason, and above all it is a slap on morality!.


Quote: ( BIBLE IS HISTORICALLY RELIABLE:

I’m going to use the argument based on the bibliographical test, to prove that the Bible has not been changed by man. I’m using Josh McDowell’s apologetic book, The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict.)

Thanks for the morning joke!!, it was most helarious.

The bible was changed or otherwise we would all be speaking hebrew in order to read it, the bible was changed many times throughout history every time it was (traslated) from one language to another!!.

The bible is full of controversy, writen by many authors, therefore there are conflicts on text.

Here are some.

Should we kill?
Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill."
Leviticus 24:17 "And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death."
vs.


Exodus 32:27 "Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, . . . and slay every man his brother, . . . companion, . . . neighbor."
I Samuel 6:19 " . . . and the people lamented because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."
I Samuel 15:2,3,7,8 "Thus saith the Lord . . . Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. . . . And Saul smote the Amalekites . . . and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."
Numbers 15:36 "And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."
Hosea 13:16 "they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with children shall be ripped up."

Here you can read more for yourself:

From Losing Faith In Faith: From Preacher To Atheist, by Dan Barker -- Chapter 23
http://www.ffrf.org/lfif/contra.html

My suggestion is, why listen to a kid, who hardly knows what the hell is talking about?

Most of your answers were an attack upon Vienna, why?. you chose to avoid everyone else, or simply you may claim that you haven't got around to us!.

Without using your (guide) book of lies, tell us why is Christianity right, and all the other thounsand religious believes wrong?.

Godless.
 
Re: Many answers

Originally posted by Godless
Non! suitable.
Quote: ( BIBLE IS HISTORICALLY RELIABLE:
.
Click to expand...

relialble my ass.


The entire Bible is corrupted anyway according to its Theologians!

The Bible itself admits that it has been tampered with and corrupted by man's alterations and corruptions:

"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"


And regarding who wrote the books and gospels of the Bible, well here is a sample of what the NIV Bible's theologians and historians wrote:

"Serious doubts exists as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark. They are absent from important early manuscripts and display certain peculiarities of vocabulary, style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark. His Gospel probably ended at 16:8, or its original ending has been lost. (From the NIV Bible Foot Notes, page 1528)"

"Although the author does not name himself, evidence outside the Scriptures and inferences from the book itself lead to the conclusion that the author was Luke. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1643)"

"The writer of this letter does not identify himself, but he was obviously well known to the original recipients. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1856)"

"The letter is difficult to date with precision....(From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1905)"

"It seems safe to conclude that the book, at least in its early form, dates from the beginning of the monarchy. Some think that Samuel may have had a hand in shaping or compiling the materials of the book, but in fact we are unsure who the final author or editor was. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 286)"

"Although, according to tradition, Samuel wrote the book, authorship is actually uncertain. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 322)"

"The date of the composition is also unknown, but it was undoubtedly during the monarchy. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 322)"

"The author is unknown. Jewish tradition points to Samuel, but it is unlikely that he is the author because the mention of David (4:17,22) implies a later date. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 360)"

"Who the author was cannot be known with certainty since the book itself gives no indication of his identity. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 368)"

"There is little conclusive evidence as to the identity of the author of 1,2 Kings. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 459)"

"Whoever the author was, it is clear that he was familiar with the book of Deuteronomy. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 459)"

"According to ancient Jewish tradition, Ezra wrote Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah (see Introduction to Ezra: Literary Form and Authorship), but this cannot be established with certainty. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 569)"

"Although we do not know who wrote the book of Esther, from internal evidence it is possible to make some inferences about the author and the date of composition. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 707)"

"The unknown author probably had access to oral and/or written sources....(From the NIV Bible commentary, page 722)"

"Regarding authorship, opinions are even more divided....(From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 773)"



I dont' even have to say thing, so much for the word of GOD or should say Word of Gossip.



Answer the above. ;)
 
Answers:

Why do Christians believe in Hell when it is not mentioned in the Bible? All I could ever find was that "lake of fire" business, and it
1) Only happens on judgement day, and
2) isn't eternal torment, it's just ceasing to exist again.

Why do Christians often believe in NON-BIBLICAL concepts, such as Limbo and The Rapture? Are people just making up crap and then believing it?

I would dearly love to know what status non-biblical doctrine has in your view.
 
BigBluehead,

Why do Christians believe in Hell when it is not mentioned in the Bible?
Click to expand...
It is a mistake in translation which has been perpetuated over the centuries because it is a simple concept used by unscrupulous preachers to make people fear God and hence convert more easily to Christianity.

Try this -

http://hector3000.future.easyspace.com/hell.htm
 
Hey, I found the hell comments really interesting, I read through that site you posted as well. Just a little tip, don't rely on a site that says that the NWT is the best translation. It's the Jehovah Witness's Bible. I can post some stuff on its unreliability if you want, I got the info off of ex Jehovah Witness's. But anyway, back to hell :p

HELL
7585 sh’<oÆwl (31), abode of the dead
86 ha<W0V>ideµs (10), Hades, i.e. place of the dead
1067 geáeánna (12), valley of (the son of) Hinnom, fig. hell
5020 tartaroáoµ (1), to incarcerate in Tartaros

7585. l/av]
sh’<oÆwl, sheh-ole’; or
laov]
sh’<oÆl, sheh-ole’; from 7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), incl. its accessories and inmates:— grave, hell, pit.

86. a{/dh" haideµs, hah´-dace; from 1 (as neg. particle) and 1492; prop. unseen, i.e. “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls:— grave, hell.

1067. gevenna geáeánna, gheh´-en-nah; of Heb. or. [1516 and 2011]; valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (fig.) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:— hell.

5020. tartarovw tartaroáoµ, tar-tar-oá´-o; from Tavrtaro" Tartaroás, (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment:— cast down to hell.

James Strong, New Strong’s dictionary of Hebrew and Greek words [computer file], electronic ed., Logos Library System, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson) 1997, c1996.
___________________________________________________

HELL: Hades, the place (state) of departed souls, place (or state) of everlasting punishment, the deepest abyss of Hades, to incarcerate in eternal torment. To me this sounds much like the hell described in the translations.

Hell is just a place where God isn’t. Think of it this way: the earth has both God and Satan in it. It has both good and bad. When you go to a place without God, then you go to a place without good. This in itself is the punishment, to be forsaken by God, to experience nothing but evil. This is what hell is. The Bible describes it as eternal torment, because being without God is eternal torment. Think about every single bad thing in the world; now think of it with no good things. Even when all else is lost, on earth we still have hope, but in hell there is not even that.
 
Yes, there is a hell. And it looks like this.

0096_15.gif


0052_06.gif


0052_08.gif


Who could doubt Jack T. Chick?
 
RE: HELL.

We've been down this path many times here and I believe the final agreement was that -

HELL means death, and everyone dies, good or bad – this is the first death. They are then judged and the righteous are resurrected and inherit the earth. Those that fail enter the lake of fire to perish forever – this is the second and final death.

There is no eternal punishment or torture.
 
What the "hell"?

Quote: (Hell is just a place where God isn’t.) So if there exists such a realm, (very dubious) and the above is true, then god is not omnipresent, therefore god would not be omnipotent, because god would hold no power in such place, nor would god be omniscient, for god would not know what the hell is going on in hell!! LOL

Hell & heaven are considered other realms of existence, which is a metaphysical imposibility, there are no other existence other than the one we exist, if we were to postulate such existence of other realms such as hell or heaven we surely deny the existence of this realm.

Heaven & hell are just part of the tools used by theists, to usurp and practice their power over the ignorant massess, who believed such notions, no one knows what happens when one dies, so they use these tools to manipulate. Heaven for the obedient followers, hell for the dissenters of their rule.


Godless
 
I got a theologian to help me out on this one, I don't have all the answers, but I can still get them (and the answer is much better than mine) :p
_________________________________________________

God's ability to be omnipresent does not necessarily mean he always exercises that omnipresence.

Not that I'm sure it makes a difference. God created the creature to function inside of a specific framework. The way the creature preceives that framework and the way it actually functions may be two entirely different things. Satan's mistake from the beginning was to assume that he had the attributes of God. His view of God was colored by his own limitations. He evidently was arrogant enough to assume he was seeing all of God and could compete. Man is pretty arrogant to.

Lyd
 
Answers: my history may be a little off, but...

Gehenna (geaeanna, whatever) was a pit near Jerusalem where they burned garbage; it is, at best, an analogy. If that was really Hell, people might just walk there and help their poor sinning relatives back out of the pit.

In Greek mythology, Hades was a guy. The place he ruled over was also called Hades, because it was his place. Unless you believe in OTHER GODS, specifically HADES, you probably shouldn't believe in the PLACE called Hades either.

In Greek mythology, Tartaros was another place where the dead went, usually to be punished or locked away. The three hecatoncheires (Briareos, Gyges, Kotus) were giants with a hundred hands each, who keep people from leaving this place... here Tantalus sits in a lake of sweet water, with succulent fruit bonking him on the head, unable to eat or drink and endlessly suffering from deprivation. Here Sisyphus endlessly rolls his rock up the hill... and here you can hang out with the exiled Titans, so it seems unlikely that Christians would believe in this place either.

Forasmuch as I understand Christian doctrine, they are not supposed to believe in other gods, like the Titans or Hades, any more than they are supposed to believe in Ragnarok (which, as far as I know, was made up by Christian missionaries).

So, given that Gehenna is only an allegory for pain, and Hades and Tartaros don't fit into the Christian pantheon without some pretty dangerous idolatry..

Why do so many Christians believe in Hell?

Godless: I see no reason why two seperate worlds cannot exist...
 
BBH...

Quote: (I see no reason why two seperate worlds cannot exist...)

I see no reason why two worlds can't co-exist either! however I was not refering to another world, was I?.

We are refering to another realm of existence. That is not another world, it is an existence beyond this existence, after death. This is silly to think that we have two or more realms of existence, it is a metaphysical controversy.

Quote: ( The primacy of existence states the irrefutable truth that existence is primary and consciousness is secondary. Consciousness is the faculty which perceives and identifies existents (things that exists). For two reasons we say that existence is primary, that consciousness requires existence, and that there is no consciousness without existence.)

http://www.importanceofphilosophy.c...ilosophy.com/Metaphysics_ExistenceExists.html

Without consciousness there can't be another realm of existence. Death is final, our brains go out, our consciouness seize to exist.

Ancient men used the unknown certainty of death, Egiptians thought they go to another form of exitence in the after life, the idea is very old, and adopted by religious philosophy, thus giving these usurpers a tool, to use against the ignorant massess, and manipulating people by intimidation of what there after life would be, if they didn't conform to religious values.

Godless.
 
Answers?.

First of all omnipresent means that an entity would be present at all times at the same time in every place.

Therefore this: (God's ability to be omnipresent does not necessarily mean he always exercises that omnipresence.)

Makes no sence, cause this would disqualify god, as omnipopresent!!.

Nice attempt of non-sequirtus though.

Godless.
 
Originally posted by answers
you need God to explain some things to you. And He just so happened to write a very very long explanation called the Bible, maybe you should read it. :D
Click to expand...
Now, tell me if I'm wrong I but thought various "people" wrote books of the Bible at different times.

You say God wrote it. Please Explain.

Also you have ignored my question "I would like to know whereabouts in the Bible does it mention freewill existing with an omniscient god?

I believe it can't be found, so where does the idea come from in the first place?"
 
I would like to know whereabouts in the Bible does it mention freewill existing with an omniscient god?

Answer: If the Bible told us everything about life then it would take more then a persons whole life to read it. God gave us the gift of logic so lets use it. We have freewill, how do I know this, well because in reality, we have freewill. I'm demonstrating this fact to you right now, I want to type this reply, and I'm free to do it, nothings stopping me at all. Now if God knows what I'm going to do, does that mean I can no longer do it? Does that mean I'm not free to do it? The answer is logically no. If God stopped everything He didn't want us to do, then would He have let Adam and Eve sin. Would He have let people crucify His son? No God lets us excersise our freewill, even though He knows what we're going to do with it. How do I know this? The answer is, because I have logic, it doesn't need to be written in the Bible to be known. I don't see where in the Bible it tells us that when you chop off your foot it hurts, so does this mean that because it isn't written in the Bible, that it isn't so? I don't see where in the Bible it says don't drink poison, yet should we do it anyway? No! For God gave us a logical mind, that fills us in on the things the Bible leaves out.

You could say that God has stopped people from doing things in the past, knowing that what they were doing was going to be bad? Maybe so. But if a parent know's their child is doing drugs, and takes away their money so that they can no longer buy drugs, does that mean that the notion that humanity has freewill is no longer true? If God excercises the same parental control every now and then, how does His omniscience affect anything, if His omniscience is affecting humanities freewill no more then humanity affects it themselves?

CyA's
 
Vienna said: "Now, tell me if I'm wrong I but thought various "people" wrote books of the Bible at different times.

You say God wrote it. Please Explain."

My Answer: Tell me if I use a pen to write a letter, who writes the letter. Should I write:

Dear Paper

...........

From Pen

?

No, the pen is the tool, the paper is also a tool, who the letter is from, and who it is to, stays the same regardless of the tools used to write and recieve it.

Now the people who wrote the Bible were tools of God. God used the people to write the Bible, just like we use a pen to write a letter. We are all servants of God. If a leader commands an army to attack a certain place, who is the one responsible for the attack, is it the leader or the soldiers serving him? If a master orders a servant to bring a message to a person, and the message makes the person who gets it, angry, who is responsible for that anger causing message? It is the master, not the servant.

CyA's
 
Okay I've never been to hell, and I plan on not going there either, so I truthfully don't know everything about it. I should have been more specific when I said that God isn't in Hell, i should have said that His blessings aren't there or aren't there like they are in Heaven or on Earth. Basically Hell is such a wierd place, that I don't think any human can presently understand. However I think we can understand it enough to know that it is a place we would rather not be in. I think that's why the Bible doesn't give us exactly a literal description of Hell, it more so describes it in a way, which would make people of the day, not want to go there. For example it describes it as the rubbish tip bascically, things that the people could understand, because God in His wisdom knew they couldn't grasp a literal description. Perhaps these days we could say that instead of Hell being a place of fire, it could be the World Trade Towers while they were collapsing. It is basically just a place, by using our logic in interpretting it's descriptions, where we would really dislike being. But anyway here's another answer from a theologian that might clear things up for you.
_________________________________________________

Hi all,

David says in Psalm ?? (sorry, I don't have the time to look it up right now) that "if I go down to Sheol" that God will be there too. We also believe that Jesus preached to the souls in hell. The atheist is wrong if he believes that there is anyplace in the universe that God cannot and does not go. That there will be souls in the eternal torment of hell speaks of His justice and glorifies Him. God has just as much power over the wicked as the righteous--Jesus told us to fear the One who could destroy our bodies and souls in hell. He would have just as much knowledge of what goes on in hell as heaven.

I think we have to try to wrap our heads around the torment of "eternal death." God rules in hell just as He rules in heaven but He tells us that the "death of the wicked gives me no pleasure." I therefore think it inevitable that He chooses not to dwell there. It could be likened to owning a derelict piece of real estate in a bad part of town---you could be there if you chose to be, but, for the most part, you do not. However, that does not mean that your will over that property is ineffectual. Your atheist friend is thinking of omnipresence as a pagan would--that God is everywhere at all times. This is not a Biblical concept--otherwise He would not have a "dwelling place." All of God's angels serve Him, including the fallen ones. That they are part of the presence of God is a measure of the mystery of iniquity.

In Him,

Ellen

___________________________________________________

lol it's answers like this that make me wish I didn't have to wait 2 years before I go to Bible college, I see just how ignorant I am when I see answers like the one above, which someone could write with just the knowledge they had in their head. You can't really complain about that answer, unless you are ignorant of what it is talking about. And people on this forum are anything but ignorant, they do have lots of questions, but that just shows that you people are honest in seeking answers.

N e way.

CyA's
 
Ah!!! another really good answer to that question. As I said, I don't know everything about Hell, and I have also said that I don't know everything about everything. So here's an alternative answer which another theologian posted on the forum where I asked the question for you people. I'll be honest with you, basically I'm learning from these answers I'm gettin from these other people, just like you are. I'm not saying that I don't have confidence in the answers I've already given people, if I didn't then I would be honest and tell you. What I'm saying is that with some questions, this one in particular, I'm just simply too ignorant to give you the good answers you deserve for asking a good questions. Anyway enough of being nice for today, here's the alternative answer:

I agree with the idea that God's omnipresence implies that God is everywhere, no exceptions. One way one of my Profs phrased it, which alters the scenario slightly, but I think in an important way, is to say, rather than God being in Hell, as well as every place else; Hell, and every place else, is ever before God's presence. This different perspective maintains God’s sovereignty and rulership over all, rather than implying God is experiencing the torment of Hell by virtue of His “being there”. That is, God is not like some cosmic peanut butter spread throughout all of physical space. In the case of Hell, indeed God’s presence is felt, and all who are there would give all they ever had to make that presence go away! Those in that frightful place will forever experience God’s wrath and displeasure at their rejection of His Son. I recall something of this in John’s Revelation, and perhaps it is the way those in Hell would be feeling and saying.
(Rev 6:15-17 NNAS) Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; {16} and they said^ to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; {17} for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

Hope this helps! Blessings!
 
This is in reply to an earlier question, it is as follows:

In Genesis, the Bible says that God mandated for mankind to not eat the meat of animals:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yet in Leviticus 11 God says (among other things) that it is OK to eat meat providing that it is prepared following strict Kosher practices:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is cloven-footed, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.

4 Nevertheless, these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven-footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Then in Matthew 15 and Mark 7 Jesus (who you said is God, although the Bible does not) says that Mosaic law no longer applies:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:

11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.

16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

20 these are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written,
This people honoreth me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me,
teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10 For Moses said,
Honor thy father and thy mother; and,
Whoso curseth father or mother,
let him die the death:

11 but ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

12 And ye suffer him no more to do aught for his father or his mother;

13 making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

15 there is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19 because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23 all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

_______________________________________________

ANSWERS ANSWERS ANSWERS ANSWERS (sorry just gettin your attention so that you'd know when the question was finally finished) Okay I've gotten answers from another forum again, I really didn't have the time to research it myself, and these people know this kind of stuff off the top of their head, so here the answers are:

(1)

There is a progress in redemptive history from the Law of Moses to the Law of Christ. That explains the move from certain foods not being allowed to all foods being allowed.

As far as herbs and such, that was ok until the fall. Then animals were allowed as food. Proof of that was that Abels offering was superior. If anyone else can help that would be great.

(2)

On the passage above...the traditions of men was not the Mosaic Law. The Jews had put what they called a 'hedge' around the Law. They were practicing things the law didn't dictate. They thought if they took the Law and made it more extreme, then if a person broke the hedge then maybe they wouldn't violate the Law itself. It was a form of self-righteous arrogance. We see it all the time. The concentration on outward appearance.. appearing, acting holy and holier than thou. Its a real turn off to the unbeliever.

We know Christ kept the Law perfectly. The failure is in understanding the Law. Its like when the Pharisees accused Christ and the disciples of picking grain on the Sabbath. Luke 6. It was not against the Mosaic Law to pick grain for personal use on the Sabbath. The Law said you could not harvest, (work). It specified that it was okay to gather for food though...I think that is covered in Deut. 23. But, it is an example of what you mean.

Lyd
 
Originally posted by answers
I would like to know whereabouts in the Bible does it mention freewill existing with an omniscient god?

Answer: If the Bible told us everything about life then it would take more then a persons whole life to read it. God gave us the gift of logic so lets use it. We have freewill, how do I know this, well because in reality, we have freewill. I'm demonstrating this fact to you right now, I want to type this reply, and I'm free to do it, nothings stopping me at all. Now if God knows what I'm going to do, does that mean I can no longer do it? Does that mean I'm not free to do it? The answer is logically no. If God stopped everything He didn't want us to do, then would He have let Adam and Eve sin. Would He have let people crucify His son? No God lets us excersise our freewill, even though He knows what we're going to do with it. How do I know this? The answer is, because I have logic, it doesn't need to be written in the Bible to be known. I don't see where in the Bible it tells us that when you chop off your foot it hurts, so does this mean that because it isn't written in the Bible, that it isn't so? I don't see where in the Bible it says don't drink poison, yet should we do it anyway? No! For God gave us a logical mind, that fills us in on the things the Bible leaves out.

You could say that God has stopped people from doing things in the past, knowing that what they were doing was going to be bad? Maybe so. But if a parent know's their child is doing drugs, and takes away their money so that they can no longer buy drugs, does that mean that the notion that humanity has freewill is no longer true? If God excercises the same parental control every now and then, how does His omniscience affect anything, if His omniscience is affecting humanities freewill no more then humanity affects it themselves?

CyA's
Click to expand...
Cute answer, and one which I have heard the likes of in a court of law but on other subjects, using the same principle.

This is a universal reply which can apply to any God and therefore any God can be as real as the next.

How can you prove that this the real God, and all other Gods are false when you bring up an argument which proves all Gods have the same qualities??
 
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