City Revives Paddling, sees major improvement in Behavior

[sifreak21]

I know this, you know this- we all know this.

Using my son as a guilt trip against me was something I could not endure.
I confess... I couldn't stand the thought of him in front of a paddle. :shrug:

not saying your a bad parent at all if u dont like a paddle use your hand ^_^ but thats up to the parent what i have a problem with is saying spanking is abuse with lasting psychological effects which couldnt be further from the truth

 

[Bells]

I know this, you know this- we all know this.

Using my son as a guilt trip against me was something I could not endure.
I confess... I couldn't stand the thought of him in front of a paddle. :shrug:

You brought your son into it when you stated that you would delegate corporal punishment to the school administrators against your son. And then you brought him in some more when I asked you if you would at least confirm or speak to him before you allowed the school administrators to hit him and your response was no, he's 6 and would therefore lie.

I didn't use your son against you. No one did. You used your son against yourself.

bells your spinning everything every oppisition says to you.. if you want to have the same effect on an adult as spanking has on a child you would have to beat the piss out of them.. my mother and grand mother were hit with rulers and more in school.. as did i would say 99% of every user heres parents did. look at how bad and psychologically messed up they aLL are.. o wait.. now look at our parents grandparents generation. now look at this generation the kids and teens and what there doing you tell me what works and what doesnt its one of the most obvious things out there todays kids have 0 respect for athority and for there elders

Do you know what I see?

I see a generation of people, born of people who were smacked and who smacked their children, and look at the state of the world today. People who were smacked are having children and repeating the same behaviour towards their own children. And you question the behaviour of today's generation?

If schools aren't allowed to paddle, is it still ok if the police clubs a suspect into submission? Or should the parents of the suspect discipline the suspect.

Here's the thing. Suspects have legal protection that children do not. Funny that, huh?

 

[Bells]

not saying your a bad parent at all if u dont like a paddle use your hand ^_^ but thats up to the parent what i have a problem with is saying spanking is abuse with lasting psychological effects which couldnt be further from the truth

Well research has shown, time and again, that it does have a lasting psychological affect. Scroll through this thread. There are many links, all of which detailing research that has shown that there is a negative affect and that it can and does leave psychological scars, not to mention give children the impression that violence is acceptable. Do you have links to the opposite? In short, back up your claim that it "couldn't be further from the truth". The onus is on you to prove your claims.

 

[sifreak21]

Do you know what I see?

I see a generation of people, born of people who were smacked and who smacked their children, and look at the state of the world today. People who were smacked are having children and repeating the same behaviour towards their own children. And you question the behaviour of today's generation?


Here's the thing. Suspects have legal protection that children do not. Funny that, huh?

ehh much less people parents spank there kids now adays so your argument fights agianst itself there. and yes i do unless you live on a different planet than i do.. kids are now getting pregnant as young as 14 the respect children/kids give you is non exsistant you must live on pandora i want to go there

 

[sifreak21]

Well research has shown, time and again, that it does have a lasting psychological affect. Scroll through this thread. There are many links, all of which detailing research that has shown that there is a negative affect and that it can and does leave psychological scars, not to mention give children the impression that violence is acceptable. Do you have links to the opposite? In short, back up your claim that it "couldn't be further from the truth". The onus is on you to prove your claims.

id really like to see this research where are you getting this information? i was spanked all of the time 0 - effect on me had my parents not takin it to spanking i gaurentee id be in jail/prision right now.. it doesnt leave psychological scare thats pure poppycock.. giving childrent impression tha violence is acceptabe? are you kidding? spanking a kid for doing something wrong shows them there will be consequence for there actions should then not listen to you.. let me look around

seems there is alot saying they do leave psychological scars i dont really need to cite anything i know that spanking worked for me and i dont have any emotional scars thats why i think this research is bullshit.. i dont ever fight i dont want to i avoid it. i dont have self image issues i have no psychologial problems at all. having gone thru it i know that reasearch can say what it wants but it is bullshit

 

[Bells]

ehh much less people parents spank there kids now adays so your argument fights agianst itself there.

You have proof of that of course?

and yes i do unless you live on a different planet than i do..

I believe I live on the same planet as you do. If not, then my internet provider must have put down some far out cables.

kids are now getting pregnant as young as 14

They did back then as well. Do you think teen pregnancy can be prevented with a few good smacks? Would you smack them before or after they got pregnant?

the respect children/kids give you is non exsistant

Really? How so? How is it less different to the rebel children of the 60's and 70's? They were smacked too. Oh wait, back then it must have been the music, right? Damn hippy music and boys growing long hair..

you must live on pandora i want to go there

Really, cliche's won't help you much at this point in time.

 

[Ophiolite]

Bells,
I notice you are still scrupulously failing to address the point that, by definition, paddling and spanking - correctly applied - are not violence.
You cite the selective research indicating pyshological scars caused by corporal punishment, but avoid considering the scars that may be created when parents use violent non-corporal methods, born out of frustration.

 

[Bells]

id really like to see this research where are you getting this information?

Is reading through this thread and reading the links provided that hard?

i was spanked all of the time 0 -

I'd have never have known.

effect on me had my parents not takin it to spanking i gaurentee id be in jail/prision right now..

So you think it is your parents hitting you that kept you out of jail?

it doesnt leave psychological scare thats pure poppycock..

Again, do you have proof of that? Show me a study that says that hitting children does not leave psychological scars. It has even been found that smacking children in school can impede in their learning.

giving childrent impression tha violence is acceptabe? are you kidding? spanking a kid for doing something wrong shows them there will be consequence for there actions should then not listen to you.. let me look around

I'm sorry. But hitting a child as a consequence of their actions and teaching them that that will be the consequence of their actions is naught. As adults, they won't be hit as a consequence of their actions.

Do you allow your boss to hit you if you don't do exactly as they tell you?

So pray tell, how exactly is smacking a child going to teach them about adult life and about consequences? Smacking an adult is deemed assault. Will being smacked as a 5 year old prepare them for getting fired? Will it prepare them for getting their first speeding ticket? No. It won't.

 

[sifreak21]

You have proof of that of course?

I believe I live on the same planet as you do. If not, then my internet provider must have put down some far out cables.


They did back then as well. Do you think teen pregnancy can be prevented with a few good smacks? Would you smack them before or after they got pregnant?


Really? How so? How is it less different to the rebel children of the 60's and 70's? They were smacked too. Oh wait, back then it must have been the music, right? Damn hippy music and boys growing long hair..


Really, cliche's won't help you much at this point in time.

bells smacking is abuse if you ever hit your child in the face you should be put in jail spanking is not abuse. if applied correctly its not abuse at all altho u keep saying smacking i would never ever ever smack my child i would spank them given i feel it was earned im not going to spank my child for throwing something at my 2nd child.. now if he keeps doing it after the 3rd of 4th time i will give one last warning then i will spank

 

[sifreak21]

Is reading through this thread and reading the links provided that hard?


I'd have never have known.


So you think it is your parents hitting you that kept you out of jail?


Again, do you have proof of that? Show me a study that says that hitting children does not leave psychological scars. It has even been found that smacking children in school can impede in their learning.


I'm sorry. But hitting a child as a consequence of their actions and teaching them that that will be the consequence of their actions is naught. As adults, they won't be hit as a consequence of their actions.

Do you allow your boss to hit you if you don't do exactly as they tell you?

So pray tell, how exactly is smacking a child going to teach them about adult life and about consequences? Smacking an adult is deemed assault. Will being smacked as a 5 year old prepare them for getting fired? Will it prepare them for getting their first speeding ticket? No. It won't.

had my parents hadnt taken control of my behavior problems when i was young. yes i would have been in jail had they ignored it or let them grow i would be in jail.

as i have said before i dont need a study to show it doesnt im living proof of it.. do you need proof that your hair is brown? our you laugh if tickled a certin way? if someone told you no i have a study that shows people dont laugh when ticked that certin way. so i dont need to look up studies i already know.

no adults wont be hit as a consequence for there actions depending on there actions the will be put in jail or prision which is much worse. again ihave NOOO idea why you are compairing spanking an adult to a child there are 2 completely different entities.

I am an adult so no my boss doesnt spank me.. again this is the last time im going to respond to you if you compaire spanking a child. to hitting an adult we are talking about children here not adults.

SPANKING a child is not assault HITTING an adult is.
if you go by what is spanking a child going to teach them about life and consequences then why parent them at all?
if you use spanking as a last resort it will teach the child that you need to listen to the athorities in your life if you dont the consequences will keep getting worse
to put it in your mind set when your an adult and you speed you are given a ticket.. then 2nd ticket is higher the 3 ticket is even higher and you get your lisence taken away keep driving? you go to jail. get out of jail and you still keep driving but this time you kill someone? death penelty may be enforced
what is timeout going to theach them about consequences?

 

[Bells]

Bells,
I notice you are still scrupulously failing to address the point that, by definition, paddling and spanking - correctly applied - are not violence.

By whose definition?

It is not defined as violence, because it is against a child, but against an adult, it is deemed and defined as violence. What I am asking is why do we change the definition when it applies to children. The response I have been given is that it is because children are less mentally developed. Apparently the level of one's mental development determines whether it is deemed abuse or not. I have been told that because adults are more mentally developed, it would be abuse to hit an adult with a paddle or a hand. But children are less mentally developed, so it is somehow not deemed as "violence". My question is simple. Why is that? Why is it that the less mentally developed don't get equal protection at law as those who are mentally developed?

You cite the selective research indicating pyshological scars caused by corporal punishment, but avoid considering the scars that may be created when parents use violent non-corporal methods, born out of frustration.

What I cited was not selective. It is consistent and across the board.

At least I cited something. No one from the other camp has yet to cite anything at all. Do you think the psychological scar of taking away privileges or time outs can be the same as hitting a child? Could be. But everything I have cited has stated that it is preferred to actually hitting a child.

 

[Neverfly]

Bells,
I notice you are still scrupulously failing to address the point that, by definition, paddling and spanking - correctly applied - are not violence.
You cite the selective research indicating pyshological scars caused by corporal punishment, but avoid considering the scars that may be created when parents use violent non-corporal methods, born out of frustration.

Yes, the evidence cited only refers to heavy physical abuse.

Sifreak:
Teen pregnancy has always occurred. The cultural norm was to keep it hush hush, marry the daughter off immediately, etc.
Fortunately, recent times have seen a change in that. This provides healthier living for mothers and children.

Bells:
The claim that modern children are more disrespectful is apparent on all fronts.
Additionally, many people are making poorer choices entering into adulthood.

Personally, I do not think this ties into spanking OR Corporal punishment.

However, a change HAS been made to how we treat children that has given us this result.
Determining that change would be very helpful to this topic. It's understandable that some might attribute that to the change in practice of spanking or corporal punishment.

 

[Bells]

Yes, the evidence cited only refers to heavy physical abuse.

Actually, no it does not.

The claim that modern children are more disrespectful is apparent on all fronts.

You are aware that you are stating a complaint made in every single generation, right?

Additionally, many people are making poorer choices entering into adulthood.

Do you know what I see? I see people who are impatient. I see people who cannot explain or be patient enough to have things explained to them. Much like when we smack a child who does not alter their behavior immediately instead of explaining and teaching them why that behaviour is wrong, I see people get upset if they don't get their own way immediately. And impatience leads to poor decision making.

 

[Neverfly]

Do you know what I see? I see people who are impatient. I see people who cannot explain or be patient enough to have things explained to them. Much like when we smack a child who does not alter their behavior immediately instead of explaining and teaching them why that behaviour is wrong, I see people get upset if they don't get their own way immediately. And impatience leads to poor decision making.

Are you saying that spanking leads to a lack of wise choices made later in life?
You still seem to think that spanking is THE FIRST option used.

Again, this is NOT necessarily the case.
Every parent I have ever met that spanks uses it when All Other Methods have failed. These parents DO Explain it. They explain it til blue in the face and the child ignores it and continues the bad behavior.

I have repeatedly asked you to answer:
What do you DO with those children that Refuse to acknowledge all attempts at reason and discipline Prior to the last resort, Bells?

 

[Mr MacGillivray]

Here's the thing. Suspects have legal protection that children do not. Funny that, huh?

is that because they are not allowed to vote?

 

[Bells]

I have repeatedly asked you to answer:
What do you DO with those children that Refuse to acknowledge all attempts at reason and discipline Prior to the last resort, Bells?

You keep trying. You get help from professionals when all else fails. You know, you keep trying to reach your child and you keep trying to educate them. Strange concept, I know, but hey, it beats hitting a child.

 

[Bells]

is that because they are not allowed to vote?

Suspects, because they are adults, are granted protection under the US constitution, that children are not given. I find that astounding.

I don't know if it is because of their voting rights or not. What I do know is that once a child becomes an adult, they are granted full legal protection against assault on their person that they do not have prior to reaching that magical milestone of adulthood. Prior to being deemed adults, they can be legitimately hit by either their parents or their school, depending on which state or country they live in. But once they reach 18, they are granted legal protection from that. Why do you think that is?

 

[sifreak21]

Actually, no it does not.


You are aware that you are stating a complaint made in every single generation, right?


Do you know what I see? I see people who are impatient. I see people who cannot explain or be patient enough to have things explained to them. Much like when we smack a child who does not alter their behavior immediately instead of explaining and teaching them why that behaviour is wrong, I see people get upset if they don't get their own way immediately. And impatience leads to poor decision making.

bells your a very selective reader and only answer certin questions.. i havve asked you not to use smack you continue to.. its SPANK. and SPANKING is only use as a last resort all other options have been extinguishted.. and im fairly confident you wont answer the question presented to you about what to do if none of your grounding. timeout s dont work. again your thought is wrong your twisting what were saying you said

"I see people get upset if they don't get their own way immediately. And impatience leads to poor decision making"

didnt think id have to do this but
"child will contunte to do said action after every punishment"
please dont trown the ball timmy

timmy dont throw the ball serious look

go over to child get down to there level look into childs eyes timmy i said dont throw the ball takes the ball away

timmy grabs another ball.

timmy go sit in the corner for 5 min. time out

timmy gets out of timeout grabs a ball and throws it..

timmy get to your room now! your grounded

timmy gets out of his room comes downstairs and starts throwing the ball again

timmy gets spanked

 

[sifreak21]

You keep trying. You get help from professionals when all else fails. You know, you keep trying to reach your child and you keep trying to educate them. Strange concept, I know, but hey, it beats hitting a child.

bells my parents did take me to a professional for behavior problems guess what? didnt work then what do you do?

 

[sifreak21]

here we go bells if this fails then i give up. since you keep compareing children to adults for some unknown reason ill but it in your ters

Police are your parents
grown man/woman is the child

now answere this for me

cop asks you to do something you are insubordinate

cop asks you again your still insubordinate

cop tells you to get down on the ground insubordinate

cop either tazes your or uses force to get you to do what they say your now handcuffed and going to jail for insubordinate
depending on how insubordinate you were
you could be charged with assualting an officer along with insubordination
now your in jail