I said earlier that I was going to follow a chronological order but when I entered my last post I find a huge oral bowel movement from Lori. And being that I won't allow this lunatic to rant and rave, insulting me while she claimed repeatedly to be so loving and without judgment, I plan to skewer this dumb ass here and now right to the wall.
Boy Lori, it didn't take much chiding for you to reveal what a hypocrite you are, did it? You pranced on this board saying how loving you were, how you don't go to church because people are so judgmental, and look who's acting like a shit flinging monkey? Not very Christian of you Lori, I thought you knew God oh so well and loved your fellow man.
Ever hear "Curseth not thine enemy"? I wish I could tell you that you probably did and are just chosing to be a hypocrite. But as revealed by your consistent professions you don't even READ the bible. It is UTTERLY apparent you haven;t heard the verse because you just too plain ignorant, lazy (and dare I say stupid) to have ever read the bible. That is why you fail so miserably as a Christian, and as an intellectual being to be brutally honest.
So let's analyze your oral bowel movement publically, since you hung it out there, just begging for me to respond:
Why is it that just because you were stupid and naive enough to allow yourself to be indoctrinated that you assume that everyone else was as well?
I was a CHILD lori when I came to the faith. Not a fully developed intellectual being. That is how I got trapped into the frontal lobotomy you refer to as Christianity. (Please know Christians, I use the word frontal lobotomy not in the idea that all Christians are missing their lobes, but in the case of our very special Lori here.) I "assume" everyone else is indoctrinated because it's crystal clear to see. EVERY (and I mean EVERY) Christian I have EVER spoken to in my ENTIRE lifetime always had their faith boil down to personal reward or fear of leaving the faith. It never boiled down to truly loving god, truly desiring to be moral, because they thought it was the sincere truth. Christianity is diseased with egocentricism, so much so that 99.99..% of Christians are not fit to call Jesus savior, because they have absolutely NO concept of what martyrdom is. And I'm not alone in seeing this. 2/3irds of the world agrees that egocentric Christianity is a stain on humanity.
I see that you are still stupid and naive...
Lori, I'm going to be brutally honest here, it's going to sound pompus to you, but I really don't care: I shit more brains then you have, and so does everyone else on this thread minus water (who is coming off like a flaming idiot currently, but we shall see where that leads with time.)
Step to me when you are able to discuss the eschatological urgency of the markan narrative and it's imposition on the ignorance of bodily integrity. Step to me when you explain how the Nag Hamadi has altered our understanding of the matricide of matriachy in Christianity. You can't even ascribe to tell me I am niave and stupid until you contain at the very least have the knowledge I have concerning this topic. Until then: realize you are talking out of your ass, and I will regard you as such.
just regarding a different opinion now.
What you don't seem to understand here, is that I was Christian when I was niave and through education I arrived at atheism. My opinion changed as a result of gaining knowledge, not of losing it. It's extremely common, natural: to deafen the level of fundamentalism as you excell in studying scripture. This is why you don't meet fundamentalist theologians. And this is why Christians with education tend to be apologists. Cole has independantly studied scripture and it shows via his struggle to understand God and the contradictory nature of the Bible. Christianity isn't a comfortable place of niave acceptance Lori. It's a place of forever striving to know God in all the ways he has chosen to reveal himself. And this struggle is made apparent in the apologetics and gentle nature of educated Christians. This is the theme of all the prophets, the jews and the apostles, and should continue to be the theme of modern christians.
I could have never claimed to believe in something so consequential as God, the Christian God especially, just because there was some organization that existed with His name on it, or some book that told me to.
Save it, that's EXACTLY what you do.
That would be retarded, and I'm not.
It is, and you are acting like a retard lori. Sincerely. You're acting as if no amount of education could possibly help you intellectually. The mentally handicapped however have a reason for this, you do not.
And people who do so, don't really want God or knowledge of, or a relationship with, Him...
Oh you mean like you? You profess to know God but are too fucking LAZY to actually read ONE book written about him.
they want to belong to an organization, or to read a book.
And if you actually READ the Bible you'd understand that the book is ESSENTIAL to being a Christian. Church may not be, but the scripture IS. You claim to avoid church because the people are judgmental. WAKE UP LORI! You avoid church because YOU are judgmental. You are too lazy to follow the scripture and don't want to be reminded of your duties so you avoid the church like a plague. Preach to me all you want how the church does not embody Jesus, but you don't either Lori, not even CLOSE! And in your claim that others are judgmental, you reveal yourself to be their judge!
And so there you have it...f'ing rocket science yea? no, not really.
Thanks for the swear word Christian, I love it when you let one fly for Jesus!
People like you join cults and drink poison just because some charismatic guy says to, while the rest of us look on in bewilderment, wishing for something to say to you that would make you yank your head out of your ass.
Lori you are off your fucking rocker! I'm an atheist, that means I LACK faith. The LAST place on earth you are going to find an atheist is in a cult drinking poison. I don't have the niave mindset that would require that kind of conversion. Don't fool yourself, YOU are the cultist. By all defintions your religion is a cult (Especially when you compare born agains to the rest of Christian denominations.)
Cult:
-A system or community of religious worship and ritual. (CHECK!)
-A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. (2/3irds of the worlds agree! CHECK!)
-The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual. (CHECK!)
-A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease. (CHECK!)
Now considering I am an atheist who relies on science, void of religion, you could NEVER classify me as such. Now "yank YOUR head out of your ass" and crack open a dictionary sometime.
You "deconvert" because you were a gullable idiot to "convert" in the first place...big surprise.
Moron, do you realize by saying that I was a gullible idiot to be a Christian, that you are calling yourself a guillable idiot? For someone who refers to others as "slow", you sure aren't quick on the up take, Lori.
You never knew God...you never had a relationship with Him.
By what measure of SHEER ARROGANCE can you ascribe to tell me that I never knew God? That I never had a relationship with him? I was a Christian for 20 years Lori, I have a M.div. You never read the bible, profess to be new with christianity, and yet think you can tell me that I don't know or never knew God? Take your self righteousness and shove it right up your ass Lori. (To other Christians: (especially water) let me explain; my degree does not entitle me to tell other people whether they know god, THAT is up to their personal view, but it does verify that I have dedicated a great deal of my life to understanding theos, and for that reason, Lori should not ascribe to tell me what I know or don't know.)
Which is the definition of being born again. Which is what the "religion" and the "book" teaches in the first place.
No Lori, you never read the bible, so you don't know. The bible talks just as much about NOT needing baptism as it talks about it being a requirement. If you actually studied the shit instead of listening to some moronic pastor that has bias, and no education, you would realize what completely errant claims you are making right now.
After all, how can you have faith in something that you don't know? In something that you haven't experienced? You can't.
So what you are saying right now is that NO ONE is a Christian unless they belong to your pathetic little denomination. So you don't just judge other religions or non believers, you judge anyone that doesn't fit into your tiny world view of right and wrong. Thanks for showing everyone just how limited and judgmental you are.
By what measure of arrogance can you say to the 1,900 other Christian denominations that your way is the ONLY way? Even Jesus praised the Samaritan woman, Lori. But you wouldn't know that, considering you never read the bible (I feel like a broken fucking record here.)
You just fucked up Lori. Not only did you offend every body here that does not belong to your denomination, but you just told fellow christians: cole and okinrus, that they don't really know God, and are confused little heathens.
Now, I don't agree with Okinrus and Cole, but at least they NEVER ascribed to tell one of their brethren that their way was the only way. So I'm taking a moment to praise Okinrus and Cole, because they have at least mastered what you have not: Comprehending that the path to Christ is diverse and to claim your way is the only way is to completely miss the mark regarding Christ's teachings. They at least TRY to understand scripture. They at least TRY to be tolerant. And they TRY to not fling around random curse words at people because they are filled with hate for their fellow man and can only mask it for a limited period of time, like YOU! Your mask fell off Lori. And you revealed yourself to be exactly what you condemn. You feel the need to sign all your posts "Love" but the rest of your words turn the signature into a joke. Cole never once signed love, but his desire to ascribe to understand the moral worth of the bible is very evident in the rest of his words. He doesn't have to provide a "false image" because the content of his post pays testimony to his character.
You're ignorant of God...you missed the entire point and were therefore "duped" by some "organization". Congratulations. So now you expect people to take your word for the truth? Hopefully, you will know the truth when it bites you in the ass, but until then, don't count on anyone taking your word for it.
Ya lori, I am ignorant, EVERYONE who does not follow your little tiny path to God is ignorant. Thanks for explaining that to us "slow" people, we could really use a sermon from someone who has yet to take one theology course or even read the bible. (I would find more wisdom in a friggin fortune cookie compared to what you have to offer. LMAO)
And I never said people should take my words for truth. I tell people CONSISTENTLY to go out there and study, to read, to find for themselves. I'm an educator lori, not a preacher. My goal isn't to convert others to my thinking, my goal is to inspire a thirst for knowledge. A knowledge that leads them to their OWN truth, what ever that truth may be, as long as it is accounted for and researched. That's why I have no judgment for a bishop spung but plenty for the falwells of the world. THAT is the difference between a bible scholar and a clergy member. Clergy are under no obligation to receive an education. They take counciling and psych courses to understand how to convert people and minister to spiritual needs. Religion scholars spend decades studying foreign languages, anthropoloy, geography, archeaology, history and scripture to earn their title. And we do it simply to understand, not to convert. Your assumptions about me are so off base it's friggin sad.
Forget the Bible, it's useless to you without the knowledge of the Holy Spirit anyway. I dare you to get your head out of a book and look to God Himself. It's not about a book.
And there we have it! Forget what it actually tells us about God. Forget the thousands of years of his messages. Forget the duties, the moralities, the requirements. Just have faith, the rest requires too much work! And if you don't agree with me, it's because you don't REALLY have the spirit. What a fucking joke Lori.
We can all see how you are trying to errantly justify your laziness. And it's by NO coincidence that EVERY christian denomination EXCEPT yours thinks the Bible has importance. Gee, but your little denomination must be right. LMAO, sure! For 2,000 years no one had any idea what they were talking about. We had to wait for the spirit to encompass your denominatination, only to try and pretend you are part of the apostolic tradition. All those billions of Christians between then and now were just confused little heathens. And we should take YOUR word for it, even though you have nothing to back the claim. But I am the arrogant one, okay! LMAO
That's not true. You can read and hear the testimony of many people who have known God personally and have had their lives turned upside down by Him...and in a good way. There is documentation of miracles and spiritual rebirth, which in itself is a miracle to everyone who experiences it, everywhere and throughout history. God is right there in your face and He has been all along. Just because you have chosen not to look at Him doesn't mean that no one else has.
This is what I meant when I said you have no idea what empirical means. You can NOT take personal accounts that can NOT be verified as evidence. If we did then we might as well say aliens exist, elvis is alive, zeus was real and vishnu is a boar all because some two bit retard with a hallucination tells us its true.
Millions of Muslims say they have documented miracles, and experiances. Millions of Hindus say it, millions of Jains say it, millions of Sikhs, millions of Zoroastrians, millions of Buddhists say it, they must ALL be right, right? Because if I am to accept what you are saying, then you are killing your own assertion that your truth is the only truth. You can NOT have it both ways Lori. Personal experiance doesn't account for SHIT,
THIS is why. It can matter to you personally all day long, but don't try to pass it off to secular society as proof, we have standards for proof and this does not meet them.
The evidence of what? That you're a human being? Well congratulations...how long did it take you to realize that? I moved on from that when I was in gradeschool...and now I have the same kind of evidence as to the relationship that I have with God, and therefore God's existence, and identity. You must be "slow". But it's never too late to catch up.
Thanks again for the judgment, you make Jesus very proud, I'm sure! Okay Lori, I must be slow. I'm sure my tail bone was just planted there by god to trick me into believing that evolution occured. It's his way of throwing a monkey wrench into science to fool us, he's just testing our faith. I knew a freak like you once Lori. He told me that Dinosaur bones were planted in the ground by "The devil and two evil jews to fool you atheists". Then he told me to "throw away hell's keyboard and ride with jesus". I'm glad there's some of you still around. Fundies are fun! When you hold them up to your ear you can hear the ocean! Come here Lori, let me hold you! LMAO
You want to test something? Want to conduct your own experiment? See if you can sincerely tell God that you want evidence of Him in your life...no screw evidence...tell Him that you want proof of His existence, because if He exists, you want know Him...to understand Him...to the point at which you can decide whether or not you would like to have a relationship with Him. That my dear is simplistic, easy to understand, and very verifiable.
Lori I did EXACTLY that for 20 years. And NOTHING, I mean NOTHING happened. I had a stretch of time that lasted almost two years where I cried out and prayed on a weekly basis begging god with everything that I had to fill me with faith. Nothing happened. So what now Lori?
I took your experiment. And I'm not the only one, millions of atheists and agnostics have done and continue to do this, but nothing happens. Let me guess, you're going to say it's OUR fault somehow. That we don't have enough sincerity. It's a crock lori. You don't know my life, you don't know how I hung onto my faith, you don't know the hundreds of times I wept out of lonliness for god. The many nights I cried myself to sleep just begging him for an answer. You don't know and won't believe me because the truth of my experiance violates what you claim is so easy and verifiable. And that's okay! Because as I said earlier, personal experiance unless observed and documented by outside verifiable sources is not empirical. You can deny it, and the millions of us who have tried and failed can have that experiance. We will continue to exist whether or not it is believed by you. Your belief isn't what matters anyway, it is the documentation of the failed test which does.
And please don't ever suggest that you had evolution all figured out without having to consult a book again...it doesn't lend to your credibility at all...Ms. Darwin Jr.
I said that the evidence for evolution was obvious Lori, get your shit straight.
Your opinion based upon what exactly? Again, based upon the fact that you are now bitter and jaded from allowing yourself to be duped? You never knew God...and so you don't know what (who) you're talking about. You believe that something is a fact because "scholars unanimously agree"? Why? Why do you allow others to make up your mind for you? Why do you rely on others to do your realization for you? It's not prudent.
No lori, this is what you do not comprehend because you are not an intellectual: I do not believe something because someone told me. I use what people tell me to go out and research whether it is verifiable by empirical evidence. Then, and ONLY then do I ascribe to accept something. Stop trying to paint me up like you lori. I actually back up what I accept with evidence, you don't. You attempt to paint up personal experiance as evidence which can not even apply because it violates the scientific method. Shit, you don't even know what the scientific method is because you're too lazy to friggin read or research as you have proclaimed so vehemently.
And that's fine to have faith! People do it everyday, but people with faith should at the very least have the integrity to admit it is faith, and not use words like truth, evidence and empirical so flippantly. That is the difference between you versus Cole and Okinrus, they are at least admitting their religion is a faith. Most Christians do, but as you said, most Christians are not "really" christians, because they don't belong to your tiny little denomination of like minded individuals.
Jesus IS the word. He is the living manifestation of it...THAT is how I know the word...because I know HIM.
Another difference between you and I. You believe that Jesus is the word because some idiot patriarchal grecco roman who misterpolated pistle sophia wanted to crush the matriarchy from scripures. You could of course find this out for yourself if you took a class in hebrew and koine Greek, and then studied the scriptures, but that would just be too hard!
Instead you claim Jesus is the word so you can subsequently claim that you have no need for the bible. You are the victim of biased, interpolating, political/cultural agenda & propaganda. And though you could release yourself from that bondage, you prefer not to, because you ENJOY the bondage of ignorance. Ignorance allows you to continue in your tiny little world view of judgment, while enabling you to pretend that you are the martyr.
But you can't escape the judgment of the true martyr if Jesus exists, Lori. Because he said unequivacally that to KNOW him you must LIVE THE LETTER OF THE LAW AND KNOW THEY ROD AND SCRIPTURES. And if you fail in this, that you are not worthy of reward. That's okay Lori, all you are hurting is yourself. See, I don't believe in hell or heaven, but you do. So you're the one who is going to have live with the fear of being drop kicked into a firey lake for being too friggin lazy and loving god too little to actually learn about him from the guide he sent you to know him. That much I have settled with "God". I'm a doubting Thomas, you're a Judas. (Let's hope that in the VERY least, you know who the hell these people are.)
I have taken it up with the source, which is why I am born again.
You've taken it up with a pastor, not the source. You must understand Lori, I am an atheist. I don't believe there is a source. Religion is a colletion of mythos that evolved with humanity. And we ascribe to a particular mythos in accordance most often to our region and culture. I accept this because this is what the evidence states.
Apparently you are unfamiliar with the conversation that Jesus had with Nicodemus about being a pharisee vs being born again.
I am most aware, and I am equally aware with the MANY passages regarding how baptism "profiteth little".
You told me you are under no obligation to follow the old law, but baptism IS old law. According to the new covenant (if youw ant to believe there is one) Jesus' blood is the baptism which washes humanity of sin. Water blessed by levite priests for earning purity is no longer needed. And this contradiction is reflected in the bible. You may want to cover your eyes Lori because we all know how you just HATE to read the bible:
Col. 2:11-12: "In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead" (In this verse we see that circumcision and baptism is not necessary, for Christ through sacrifice did away with such necessities.)
"I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel..." (1 Cor. 1:14-17).
If baptism is necessary for salvation then why did Paul downplay it and even exclude it from the description of what is required for salvation? It is because baptism isn't necessary for salvation according to many passages in the scripture.
Acts 10:44-46 says, "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, ‘Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.' So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days". These people were saved. The gift of the Holy Spirit was on the Gentiles and they were speaking in tongues. This is significant because tongues is a gift given to believers, see 1 Cor. 14:1-5. Also, unbelievers don't praise God. They can't, according to the bible, because praise to the true God is a deep spiritual matter that is foreign to the unsaved (1 Cor. 2:14). Therefore, the ones in Acts 10 who are speaking in tongues and praising God are definitely saved and they are saved
before they are baptized.
Another way of making this clear is to use an illustration. Let's suppose that a person, under the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 16:8), believed in Jesus as his savior (Rom. 10:9-10; Titus 2:13), and has received Christ (John 1:12) as Savior. Is that person saved? Of course he is, according to these passages. Let's further suppose that this person confesses his sinfulness, cries out in repentance to the Lord, and receives Jesus as Savior and then walks across the street to get baptized at a local church. In the middle of the road he gets hit by a car and is killed. Does he go to heaven or hell? If he goes to heaven then baptism isn't necessary for salvation. If He goes to hell, then trusting in Jesus, by faith, isn't enough for salvation. Doesn't that go against the Scriptures that say that salvation is a free gift (Rom. 6:23) received by faith (Eph. 2:8-9)?
Saying that baptism is necessary for salvation is regarded as dangerous by some biblical passages because it is saying that there is something the Christian must do to complete salvation. See Gal. 2:21; 5:4.
The bible contradicts over what in fact saves you. Some parts say baptism (John 3:5), Jesus says knowing the law (Matthew 5:18), by the gospel (1 Cor. 15:2), some say good works (John 6:28), some say pure faith (Rom. 12:3). THIS is what causes a great deal of the division in denominations, and NO ONE can state unequivically they are right, because the bible agrees, and disagrees with each and every one of them! Unless of course, you're judgmental, ignorant of the Bible and too lazy to actually research what you claim to be truth. And this is what Christians like you do everyday, unfortuantely.
Here's how it works in a nutshell. You desire sincerely to KNOW God...to have proof of Him personally, and given that proof, you sincerely seek to know Him. And so you do come to know Him, and in that knowledge, you come to understand things which are confirmed 100% in the scriptures of the Bible. It's not the other way around...duh.
"Duh" That's not the only way, as I showed above. (I can't help but observe I don't like shelling out the word "duh" here, but in the name of the golden rule I'm utilizing it.)
I didn't assume anything...that's exactly what you said, and are still saying. You're still trying to make it about a book.
Lori, you need to understand that "I" am not making it about a book. "I" am
merely repeating what Jesus himself says. Like I said earlier, take it up with the bible, if it wasn't in there, "I" wouldn't be quoting it.
Certainly you didn't confess to actually meeting God or having knowledge and understanding of Him via a relationship with Him, as you go on to say later in this post that you don't believe that is even possible.
What I am confessing is that I was as you: thinking I "knew" the lord when I was a christian. All I knew was propaganda. And that became evident when I reaped an education and learned MORE about what is ascribed to God. Do I believe god is an existent being? Nope. But I do confess I know more about the works attributed to him than the average person. I don't think any Christian who attempts to understand the bible can honestly say they "know" the lord completely. Educated Christians proclaim the opposite, that they strive to know him, only being sure that he is an infinite mystery.
Listen, I know that you're slow, but my name is spelled L...O...R...I.
I just love it when you judge and belittle! It makes me grin ear to ear when I see your manifest your hypocrisy for all to see. It does nothing but back up the whole point of this thread, that your brethren by and large are hypocrites.
Yes, according to the Bible, which even though being "indoctrinated", you really didn't read much of, or maybe it's that you just didn't understand what you read.
YOU out of ALL people are going to tell me how much I have read and what I understand biblically? Lori, you're making yourself look like an ass. It's evident to everyone here that I have read the bible, and I have you following behind saying that the bible has no use and that's why you don't read it. But then you turn around and think you are fit to tell me what I know about it? Fuck off lori! You're deceit is starting to reek! You can call me a bitch, you call me an atheist, you can say I am condescending and abrasive. Say I'm pompus or aloof, because all those things are true! But never attempt to tell me I don't know the friggin bible, because I'll find 101 things you have violated concerning scripture in just this singular post and skewer you with it. There are alot of things in this world I don't understand a thing about, it just so happens that theology is not one them.
Again, praise for okinrus and Cole, because at least they have cracked open the book, and can ascertain that in the very least, (even if our interpretations differ), that I have studied the scriptures and am conceded that point. It's rough to say, but Lori: you couldn't make a pimple on the ass of these Christians. The proof of that is in I bet Cole wouldn't even want me to say that. And Okinrus probably wouldn't want me to either, because to judge according to the bible is incorrect.
If you had, you certainly would have noticed the fact that just about everyone in the Bible had a personal relationship with God...heard His voice and followed His direction in their lives...seeking and gaining knowledge from Him personally. As...hello...there was no Bible to reference back then.
Ah Lori, because you don't understand the evolution of theology let me explain: These beliefs concerning Yhwh existed in Judaic oral tradition for about 6,000 years. They began writing down their scripture in 1,500 Bc. This means that the majority of the people in the bible actually had to read the scripture to come to know Yhwh, not vice versa. And the ones who didn't have scripture prior to then had to rely on oral tradition. The bottom line is: the majority of these people arrived at their faith by the words of OTHERS, not the word of God.
And how about according to HIM? How about according to my relationship with Him? How about the absolute mountain of undeniable proof that He has given to me of His existence, His identity, and His nature? Who needs the book when you've got the real thing? Oh yea, those who go at it ass-backwards like you did. lol.
Again what you consider "proof" is not empirical evidence. You have no concept of what even qualifies as empirical evidence. And just so you know, EVERYTIME you say that people who use the bible are "ass backwards" you are insulting the majority of the people in the world, and you are insulting your VERY OWN GOD who said the scriptures are essential to knowing him. Go ahead and laugh lori, and don't mind while the rest of us point and laugh at you for your ridiculous and errant idealism.
Of course He does. And what a brilliant response you have to offer to that. Brilliant.
Yes Lori, you should take my "brilliant" response seriously. If you honestly have conversations with God in which he responds to you in a physical audible manner, you should go see a psychologist. Because something may be wrong. Believe it or not, I'm not saying this to hurt you, I'm telling you this because that is a sign of psychosis. Most people are not able to communicate with deity directly in a physical manner, and the majority of people who claim to be able to do this have a mental disorder that needs treatment. It's called Hallucinogenic Schizophrenia.
No, I had studied all of the major world religions and mythologies prior to my relationship with Jesus.
Doubtful, VERY doubtful. I don't believe you even know what the "major world religions" are. I have a masters degree in comparative religions Lori, and I have not studied "all of the major world religions" in depth. In school we cover the top five, and the others are often given an over view. I highly doubt you can name for me the prevalent trinities of Hinduism. I highly doubt you have studied the dharmapada, the Rig Vedas, the Upinashads. I highly doubt you know what zoroastrianism is, sikhism or Jainism. I bet you don't even know the major divisions in buddhism and how they are accounted for.
Don't lie lori, you're dealing with someone who can small bull shit a mile away when it comes to theology. I know when someone is saying shit for the sake of debate or if they have really done it. Their words and personal beliefs reveal everything about them concerning what they have studied. I know the cues lori, I can site them immediatly. And I am calling you out: You have never studied the major world religions, and if I were to ask you to give me an exegesis of the top five you'd have to pull it off the net just to pretend to pass.
And had actually been seriously jaded against Christianity from my exposure to organized religious hypocrisy.
Oh yeah, I know. You're jaded by the same hypocrisy that you practice. It's very evident now after your last post.
I asked for the truth, no matter what it was, and Jesus was what I got. And to be honest, at the time, I probably would have hoped for a different answer...but it was the truth that I insisted upon.
Fine Lori, you found a faith, good for you! But don't try to come off as if I have a fault for lacking one. And don't try to pretend that you are the alpha and omega of knowledge on god compared to every other being outside of your denomination.
The Holy Spirit is not the only spirit that exists or that can interact with humanity, and spiritual truth exists in this universe regardless of what label you put on it, or what you choose to attribute it too. You don't believe in God, or in my testimony for one reason and one reason only...because you don't want to...period. It's law. And it's quite obvious given your rhetoric.
BULLSHIT! Lori I belong to the Wisconsin Paranormal research group. I have studied parapsychology in my spare time for years. I have spent decades searching for evidence, searching for faith, searching for answers, and I was lead to atheism. I didn't choose this path, it was the only logical alternative to the totality of what I had studied. I have exhausted the avenues Lori, and I don't just claim to have, I have the degrees to prove it. And I am STILL learning, and shall always continue to search. You however continue to insist that you are the alpha and omega and know my heart and have the truth compared to ALL others. And you have NOTHING in your corner to solidify this claim to the world. You're like a kid who covers her ears and shuts her eyes and screams "lalalalala" just to shut everything else out. You do it with the bible, you do it with foreign Christian denominations, you do it with education and you do it with science. You have a displacement problem Lori. EVERYTHING you have attributed to me manifests in you. Like I said before, you need a friggin psychologist.
Yes, your vocabulary is so advanced I can barely keep up.
Consider yourself lucky I don't bust out with theological terms just to belittle the shit out of you intellectualy. Scholars do this consistently, and I have always been regarded for NOT engaging in that. I go out of my way to always speak in laymen's terms so I do not ostracize people who desire to understand these concepts. But I can use those terms lori! Oh yes I can, anytime you want me to I can make you consult a fucking dictionary for every sentence I type. Would that solve our issue here? No, it would only serve to chase away people who honestly desire a discussion that everyone can maintain. But if you keep being a sarcastic asshole I'll employ it.
Get your own evidence...from the same One who gave me mine. I dare you.
WOHOO Do ya triple dog dare me? (In case you haven't noticed lori your immature usage of the words "dare" and "duh" are really entertaining me.) I took your test for a decade, it failed.
But don't look to others to get your evidence for you. I have my own testimony that I am very willing to share with anyone who wants to hear it.
If I wanted to hear delusions I could can always pick up a good ghost story. But go ahead, share it! Then I can explain to you why I say you are misguided in attributing your experiance to Jesus. And in turn you can look at my mystical experiances and tell me how they are supposedly evidence of God. We can play "ouija board" all damn day in here. But in the end, I'll still know you're pushing the pointer.
I've actually experienced a full blown whopping freak of nature miracle that will be corroborated by a world famous rock star as a matter of fact.
Ahhh........ OKay..... (I can hear my fellow atheists reading this and just laughing till they are blue in the face.)
How's that for empirical evidence?
Lori, books can't eat you! The Dictionary is NOT going to turn your soul over to satan, try looking up empirical.
But the fact is that people believe what they want to believe, no matter what is testified or presented as evidence.
Now this is true. We have a million points of evidence against the claims of the bible, but Christians continue to believe. I understand this. Religion is about hope, so I will never condemn my fellow man for having faith, for needing hope. I condemn him for having selective morality. And this is why I condemn you as well.
So believe what you want to believe, and see where it gets you. But I know, as well as you know, that you don't want the truth. You just want to be right.
Lori, I don't "believe" there is no god. While you're looking up empirical look up atheist. I am WITHOUT belief. I only accept unmitigated fact, that's it, that's why I am devoid of faith. I only accept what is "truth" (look that up too) YOU are the one chalk full of faith, not I. And what is faith? "Belief in absence of evidence". Truth requires evidence. So you don't have truth lori. You have not ONE shred of truth to offer me in regards to evidence for God. Get your defintions straight because I'm tired of playing elementary school teacher.
Yea, well pride is a sin. And that is because it is like a child that one enters into the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And there we have it, straight from god. Avoid the wisdom of the world, come onto him niavly like a child. And certainly don't ask why a religion would require you to remain ignorant to maintain a faith! That's evil! LMAO
Humility is the key that unlocks the truth.
Humility is what forces man to stay ignorant and feel insignificant. And ignorance and insignificance is what allows faith to exist. We do not need to debase the crap out of ourselves to arrive at truth. It is when we harnass our best abilities that we have come to understand truth. "All great Truths begin as blasphemies".
And you're not even looking towards the door...you must be blinded by all of your pride.
Yep, I take pride in knowledge versus faith. Faith is believing in something which could very well be false. And what is false has no virtue. If that makes me prideful, fine! I don't want to be devoid of intellect for reward. The Christian that refuses to pack in their brain is showing love and respect for what God bestowed upon him. You do not need to be ignorant to be of God Lori. I'm sorry that someone told you this and managed to make you believe it.
After all...how can you seek knowledge when you think you know it all already? How can you seek the truth when you've already determined what it is, or is not? You can't.
Yet another errant assumption that you ascribe to me yet manifest. I don't know it all, I admitt that every day when I walk into the class room and pick the brain of my professors who I regard as even more knowledgable then myself, which is why I pay them to be in their company. Right at this moment I am staring at a picture I have of einstein on my computer desk and on the picture are printed this great man's words: "True knowledge is knowing you know nothing". It is this philosophy which leads me to keep educating myself lori. I'm not about to stop my search simply because I am too lazy to keep looking. But you: you told us that your way is the only way, and everybody else is wrong, remember? You told us that the Bible is not necessary, it is "just a book", remember? So take your own advice.
Your "issues" haven't gone anywhere...they're just redirected.
I'm not the one claiming I talk to God here.
Listen, you're the one who said it...you're the one who attested to your prior "belief" being based upon a book and an organization.YOU said that, not me.
Yep, I followed the bible because that is what the Lord said to do. And as someone who was attempting to be a good christian I turned to the bible to understand my duties. As a Christian I took Christ's message very seriously, as an atheist I take it even more so, more than you apparently EVER will.
And YOU are also the one who said to do what you had done is gullable and naive...
I said that my believing in christ was gullible and naive. Not the act of looking at the bible to know god. That I would NEVER say. Only you would.
assuming in your ignorance that everyone else professing to be a Christian also derived faith from a book and an organization, and therefore is equally as gullable and naive.
Unless you NEVER heard the name Jesus breathed prior to him coming directly to you and explaining himself to you, you derive your faith from an organization that is built upon the book!
I'm simply telling you that you are mistaken.
And I'm telling you that you are: nuts, hypocritical, annoying, judgmental, ignorant, lacking of compassion, self righteous, arrogant and someone who really can not engage in a constructive conversation because you lack the wits.
Faith is not a belief in something that you don't know to be true, but a belief in something that you do know to be true.
Wrongo! Truth presupposes the availability of empirical evidence. Which you have none. Faith is HOPE, it is "belief in absence of evidence". I'm not playing the lexical definition game with you anymore lori. I'm ignoring the rest of your post where you flippantly use words like experiance, empirical, truth, faith, etc. to beef up your opinion, regardless of the rules of debate. I will not engage with someone so uneducated they can not even understand the proper definition of a word. It's akin to beating my head against the wall. I'm tired of this circular reasoning. My energy is best spent on people with half a brain who at least understand the basic rules of debate.
Knowing this: there is nothing left to discuss. You made it quite evident that you aren't capable of debate, that you embody everything you accuse others of. You made it evident that you are comfortable in your ignorance and seek only to argue; not to actually learn or share anything of intellectual value. And lori, with as immature as you are I am sure you think that you just won an argument here because I am wrapping it up without addressing the rest of the post.
The saddest thing is you probably don't realize this isn't an argument. This is about debate: sharing ideas so that others can understand my view point and I can understand theirs. Take Cole for example, though we do not agree, Cole stated to me the justifications for his faith, and I understand these justifications. They may not have made moral sense to me, but they did make scriptural sense, logic was used, and hence the view was sound. Equally, I shared why it is I have difficulty accepting these justifications, and that was heard by Cole.
Though Cole and I were brutally honest with one another we never had to personally attack each other's character because it was evident that there was enough wit to continue a discussion without having to resolve to ad hominems. And Cole had enough Christian character to not betray Jesus by acting in direct contradiction to the moral messages he gave by cusing his "enemy". You are devoid of these things which makes Cole a worthy opponent. I'd sooner spend my time debating with him and answering michael's questions and engaging people with a rudimentary education then to spend one more second dirtying my intellect with your oral bowel movements.
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