chistians are hypocrites
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Gravity said:
Humans are not animals. If humans really were animals they would do the things animals do. That doesn't mean that we don't have the animal in us, just as animals have the vegetative in them, and plants have the material in them.
Since humans are not animals anymore, they may have forgotten "the instinct to preserve their own kind" (so it seems at least) Humans express themselves more than animals so they should be even less destructive than animals, but instead they are as destructive as tsunamis, earthquakes, thornados and volcanos.
Anyone can find truth in wisdom but it takes someone really wise to find that in stupidity (i'm not saying that cartoons are stupid)
"Humans are not animals'' -- that is one of the more stupid pronouncements I've heard. Homo Sapians has advanced intelligence, can powerfully manipulate our environment and that of other species - but we *are* a species.
Hey, maybe Dolphins don't consider themselves ''animals''? And when did we stop being animals? At the Neadrethal stage? Or Cro-Magnon? Is it when we started using tools? No wait, some monkeys and such do that - or when we started driving SUV's, eating junk food and watching FOX? Since natural selection/evolution never stops (unless the species goes extinct) - that means in a million years we might look back and look at what we are NOW as ''animals''?
Do tell.
Hey, maybe Dolphins don't consider themselves ''animals''? And when did we stop being animals? At the Neadrethal stage? Or Cro-Magnon? Is it when we started using tools? No wait, some monkeys and such do that - or when we started driving SUV's, eating junk food and watching FOX? Since natural selection/evolution never stops (unless the species goes extinct) - that means in a million years we might look back and look at what we are NOW as ''animals''?
Do tell.
Humans are species but not animals, why else do you call them humans and not animals? Calling humans for animals is like calling animals for plants.
This human generation stopped being animals 6666 years ago when free will was given to them.
Life should be divided into 4 stages and 7 octaves: Matter, plants, animals, humans > geniouses > prophets > God-men.
This human generation stopped being animals 6666 years ago when free will was given to them.
Life should be divided into 4 stages and 7 octaves: Matter, plants, animals, humans > geniouses > prophets > God-men.
Thank you for taking the time to post, I had spent a small amount of time reading a few books of early Christianity, Gnosis Christians, and other sorts of mystery-type religions.CritiquingChrist said:
While growing up, I was fortunate enough to only have received the indoctrination that US society itself places on us – as my family wasn’t very religious. Funny enough, when I was a child I thought the idea of God seemed like a bit of BS, yet as I grew older I think I just took “God is Real” for granted and went about my life. Luckily for me, I went to Uni and also moved away from the US. I did a PhD with a bunch of people who were atheists (they had no interest in religion or religious history) but, just being in a place where people didn’t believe got me to thinking – Hey this may be BS afterall
It’s like I went back to square one – when I was a kid Hence I got to looking into early Christianity and thus the interest. I’ve been atheist for years now, but I can still remember the day it “clicked” for me.Anyway, thanks again for the Posts. I hope you stay around this board and also feel free to start up any threads regarding early religious history, I’m sure you’ll find a number of people who will be interested in the topics. As for the others, they're worth some time, but not too much of it
Have a nice weekend,
Michael
Yorda said:
Huh? Why do you call a dog a dog and not an animal? Why do you say "pass the corn'' and not ''pass the plant"? Corn is a type of plant, dogs are a type of animal, so are humans.
Yorda said:
Wow, right here in 2005 it just now suddenly happens to be 6666 years ago that we got free will? What a nice pretty number! So last year if we'd been talking about this, it would have been 6665 years ago though right?
Does that nice pretty number with all the 6's mean this is the "LAST YEAR"?
And here is a hint . . . misspelling "geniuses'' is pretty sad irony kiddo!
wow. *chuckles*
Really, you can make ANY lexicon you want. However, the Biological Nomenclature uses a classification called Taxonomy whereby a human is an animal.Yorda said:
So in English a human is classified as animal.
It’s not that you can’t say Dog means Cake and Plant means Music. But the agreed upon meaning of words states that Human is Animal. So a human falls into the generally excepted category of animal.
Why 6666? That’s very fortuitous huh? Who’d have thought – 2005 is exactly 6666 years since the Gods endowed us (and dolphins) with consciousness
Gravity said:
Yeah, but I don't agree.
Gravity said:
Last year it would have still been 6666 years ago.
Gravity said:
No, why would it mean that? The end of the world is tomorrow.
Gravity said:
Why is it sad irony?
Michael said:
Ye3, but I don't believe in English or lexicons.
Michael said:
I see, but humans are not animals for me.
Michael said:Why 6666? That’s very fortuitous huh? Who’d have thought – 2005 is exactly 6666 years since the Gods endowed us (and dolphins) with consciousness
About 6666 years ago God gave us free will. All life has consciousness, but no creature on earth has as high consciousness as humans.
Humans are conscious of themselves. The self is the same as God, so humans are conscious of God, but not fully.
i have been absent from this thread for a few days. what do i find when i return? the atheist calling people that believe in god names. well....lets see....i dont think name calling has any place in these forums. not like this, anyhow. there is nothing but inappropriate rudeness in this following series of CritiqingChrist's quotations. i dont want to have to read this kind of thing when i come on here for friendly conversation. as far as i am concerned, it needs to stop. this isnt debate. this is outright attacking of character. this isnt the whole post, but i admit.....i took the time to read the whole thing, and was disgusted.
i admit my own hypocrisy by posting this, but i feel it is necessary to draw attention to this issue.
[/QUOTE] Boy Lori, it didn't take much chiding for you to reveal what a hypocrite you are, did it? You pranced on this board saying how loving you were, how you don't go to church because people are so judgmental, and look who's acting like a shit flinging monkey? Not very Christian of you Lori, I thought you knew God oh so well and loved your fellow man. [/QUOTE]
shit flinging monkey?
[/QUOTE]That is why you fail so miserably as a Christian, and as an intellectual being to be brutally honest.
So let's analyze your oral bowel movement publically, since you hung it out there, just begging for me to respond:[/QUOTE]
this kind of talk has no place in a conversation like the one we were having.
[/QUOTE](Please know Christians, I use the word frontal lobotomy not in the idea that all Christians are missing their lobes, but in the case of our very special Lori here.) [/QUOTE]
at least SOMETHING sort of positive was said 0_o
[/QUOTE] so much so that 99.99..% of Christians are not fit to call Jesus savior, [/QUOTE]
and you are qualified to judge that....how?
[/QUOTE] 2/3irds of the world agrees that egocentric Christianity is a stain on humanity. [/QUOTE]
i see....they finally finished that poll, have they?
[/QUOTE]Lori, I'm going to be brutally honest here, it's going to sound pompus to you, but I really don't care: I shit more brains then you have,[/QUOTE]
wow. again...that dazzling ability to intentionally insult!! take a bow!!!
You can't even ascribe to tell me I am niave and stupid until you contain at the very least have the knowledge I have concerning this topic. Until then: realize you are talking out of your ass, and I will regard you as such.
wow. dont look right at the humility, timmy.....it might blind you.
[/QUOTE]It is, and you are acting like a retard lori. Sincerely. You're acting as if no amount of education could possibly help you intellectually. The mentally handicapped however have a reason for this, you do not. [/QUOTE]
didnt you already say this? like forty different ways? why is it necessary again?
[/QUOTE]You claim to avoid church because the people are judgmental. WAKE UP LORI! You avoid church because YOU are judgmental. You are too lazy to follow the scripture and don't want to be reminded of your duties so you avoid the church like a plague. [/QUOTE]
how do you know the reasons that someone doesnt go to church? jesus christ....you arent THAT smart.
[/QUOTE]Thanks for the swear word Christian, I love it when you let one fly for Jesus![/QUOTE]
i actually enjoyed this one. lol i agree. LET ONE FLY FOR THE BIG GUY!!
[/QUOTE]By what measure of SHEER ARROGANCE can you ascribe to tell me that I never knew God? That I never had a relationship with him? I was a Christian for 20 years Lori, I have a M.div. You never read the bible, profess to be new with christianity, and yet think you can tell me that I don't know or never knew God? Take your self righteousness and shove it right up your ass Lori. (To other Christians: (especially water) let me explain; my degree does not entitle me to tell other people whether they know god, THAT is up to their personal view, but it does verify that I have dedicated a great deal of my life to understanding theos, and for that reason, Lori should not ascribe to tell me what I know or don't know.) [/QUOTE]
i am confused....i thought you didnt believe in god...should we take these above statements to be lies? or are you a hypocrite? you tell others what they do and do not know, but the same cannot be done for you? i see why you dont like it.....it makes you realize that you dont even believe half of the statements you make. BOOOOOO!!!!
[/QUOTE]No Lori, you never read the bible, so you don't know. [/QUOTE]
an example of this hypocrisy in the NEXT paragraph.
[/QUOTE] Thanks for showing everyone just how limited and judgmental you are.[/QUOTE]
yep. exactly what i was just thinking.
[/QUOTE](I feel like a broken fucking record here.) [/QUOTE]
you sound like one, too.
[/QUOTE]You just fucked up Lori. Not only did you offend every body here that does not belong to your denomination, but you just told fellow christians: cole and okinrus, that they don't really know God, and are confused little heathens. [/QUOTE]
i am not part of the denomination she is....she didnt offend me. dont include me in your idiocy, please. you cannot speak for everyone, no matter HOW important you seem to think you are.
[/QUOTE]They at least TRY to be tolerant. And they TRY to not fling around random curse words at people because they are filled with hate for their fellow man and can only mask it for a limited period of time, like YOU! Your mask fell off Lori. And you revealed yourself to be exactly what you condemn. [/QUOTE]
wow. maybe you should practice what you preach, if you want to point fingers at people.
[/QUOTE]And I never said people should take my words for truth. I tell people CONSISTENTLY to go out there and study, to read, to find for themselves. I'm an educator lori, not a preacher. My goal isn't to convert others to my thinking, my goal is to inspire a thirst for knowledge. A knowledge that leads them to their OWN truth, what ever that truth may be, as long as it is accounted for and researched. That's why I have no judgment for a bishop spung but plenty for the falwells of the world. THAT is the difference between a bible scholar and a clergy member. Clergy are under no obligation to receive an education. They take counciling and psych courses to understand how to convert people and minister to spiritual needs. Religion scholars spend decades studying foreign languages, anthropoloy, geography, archeaology, history and scripture to earn their title. And we do it simply to understand, not to convert. Your assumptions about me are so off base it's friggin sad.[/QUOTE]
i have a feeling that your assumptions about being able to give reasons why clergymen do things is a bit off base, myself.
[/QUOTE]You can NOT take personal accounts that can NOT be verified as evidence. If we did then we might as well say aliens exist, elvis is alive, zeus was real and vishnu is a boar all because some two bit retard with a hallucination tells us its true. [/QUOTE]
so what you are saying...is that most of the history from before the time of christ is absolutely incorrect......very interesting......
[/QUOTE] Personal experiance doesn't account for SHIT, THIS is why. It can matter to you personally all day long, but don't try to pass it off to secular society as proof, we have standards for proof and this does not meet them. [/QUOTE]
again.....speaking for an entire society of people. you dont see people of faith speaking for eachother....in fact, most conversations are about differences, in this forum.....*crushed under the weight of your humility*
[/QUOTE]We will continue to exist whether or not it is believed by you. Your belief isn't what matters anyway[/QUOTE]
then why do you have to call someone rude names? if you know for a fact that you are right, that is.
[/QUOTE] I do not believe something because someone told me. I use what people tell me to go out and research whether it is verifiable by empirical evidence. Then, and ONLY then do I ascribe to accept something.[/QUOTE]
really? so you have absolutely no beliefs about anything that you dont research? interesting. i would like to see some of this evidence that god doesnt exist. other than you telling me so, that is.
[/QUOTE]You could of course find this out for yourself if you took a class in hebrew [/QUOTE]
you read hebrew? then why do you never quote the actual literal translations? i mean...for the sake of accuracy and all.
[/QUOTE]I just love it when you judge and belittle! It makes me grin ear to ear when I see your manifest your hypocrisy for all to see. [/QUOTE]
me too!!
[/QUOTE]YOU out of ALL people are going to tell me how much I have read and what I understand biblically? [/QUOTE]
again...practice what you preach. you DONT know.
[/QUOTE]Lori, you're making yourself look like an ass. [/QUOTE]
not just lori, lady. self examination is great. try it.
[/QUOTE] You can call me a bitch, you call me an atheist, you can say I am condescending and abrasive. Say I'm pompus or aloof, because all those things are true! [/QUOTE]
wow. get tired of calling others dirty names? haha.
[/QUOTE] Most people are not able to communicate with deity directly in a physical manner [/QUOTE]
so SOME can?
[/QUOTE] you're dealing with someone who can small bull shit a mile away when it comes to theology. [/QUOTE]
you too. me.
[/QUOTE]And don't try to pretend that you are the alpha and omega of knowledge on god compared to every other being outside of your denomination.[/QUOTE]
considering that the previous paragraph in your post was about how much you know about religion, i suggest you take some of this, YOUR OWN STATEMENT to heart. just a suggestion though.
[/QUOTE] You however continue to insist that you are the alpha and omega and know my heart and have the truth compared to ALL others. And you have NOTHING in your corner to solidify this claim to the world. You're like a kid who covers her ears and shuts her eyes and screams "lalalalala" just to shut everything else out. [/QUOTE]
sounds like this was written about someone i know....*grins sheepishly*
[/QUOTE]Consider yourself lucky I don't bust out with theological terms just to belittle the shit out of you intellectualy. [/QUOTE]
please dont....i dont want to be crushed underfoot by your titanic knowledge!!! please!!
[/QUOTE] I go out of my way to always speak in laymen's terms so I do not ostracize people who desire to understand these concepts. But I can use those terms lori! Oh yes I can, anytime you want me to I can make you consult a fucking dictionary for every sentence I type. Would that solve our issue here? No, it would only serve to chase away people who honestly desire a discussion that everyone can maintain. But if you keep being a sarcastic asshole I'll employ it. [/QUOTE]
all hail the mighty!!! bow before how smart she is!!!!
[/QUOTE]Do ya triple dog dare me? [/QUOTE]
yes.
[/QUOTE] (I can hear my fellow atheists reading this and just laughing till they are blue in the face.) [/QUOTE]
if i were an atheist, id be fairly upset that you make such a big show of making fun of someone who you OBVIOUSLY believe to be "lower" than you.
[/QUOTE] Religion is about hope, so I will never condemn my fellow man for having faith, [/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]Get your defintions straight because I'm tired of playing elementary school teacher.[/QUOTE]
then be as half as mature as you claim to be, and stop.
[/QUOTE]Humility is what forces man to stay ignorant and feel insignificant.
really? wow. i thought ghandi was a wonderful man...i mean....ive only read about him....but im sure you have a personal experience with HIS humility to be able to make such a statement.
[/QUOTE] "True knowledge is knowing you know nothing". [/QUOTE]
strange for you to quote that, considering how much you brag about your knowledge base.
[/QUOTE]And I'm telling you that you are: nuts, hypocritical, annoying, judgmental, ignorant, lacking of compassion, self righteous, arrogant and someone who really can not engage in a constructive conversation because you lack the wits.[/QUOTE]
i ascribe this to you, as well....except for the wits part. ill give you that one. you have them. but you use yours in a negative way toward people that YOU SAID cant understand anything you say.
[/QUOTE]My energy is best spent on people with half a brain who at least understand the basic rules of debate. [/QUOTE]
exactly why i am not going to even acknowledge another post you make. i agree. wholeheartedly.
[/QUOTE]Knowing this: there is nothing left to discuss. You made it quite evident that you aren't capable of debate, that you embody everything you accuse others of. You made it evident that you are comfortable in your ignorance and seek only to argue; not to actually learn or share anything of intellectual value. [/QUOTE]
again.....pictures of you pop to mind.
[/QUOTE]I'd sooner spend my time debating with him and answering michael's questions and engaging people with a rudimentary education then to spend one more second dirtying my intellect with your oral bowel movements[/QUOTE]
me too. me too.
i admit my own hypocrisy by posting this, but i feel it is necessary to draw attention to this issue.
inappropriate.CritiquingChrist said:
[/QUOTE] Boy Lori, it didn't take much chiding for you to reveal what a hypocrite you are, did it? You pranced on this board saying how loving you were, how you don't go to church because people are so judgmental, and look who's acting like a shit flinging monkey? Not very Christian of you Lori, I thought you knew God oh so well and loved your fellow man. [/QUOTE]
shit flinging monkey?
[/QUOTE]That is why you fail so miserably as a Christian, and as an intellectual being to be brutally honest.
So let's analyze your oral bowel movement publically, since you hung it out there, just begging for me to respond:[/QUOTE]
this kind of talk has no place in a conversation like the one we were having.
[/QUOTE](Please know Christians, I use the word frontal lobotomy not in the idea that all Christians are missing their lobes, but in the case of our very special Lori here.) [/QUOTE]
at least SOMETHING sort of positive was said 0_o
[/QUOTE] so much so that 99.99..% of Christians are not fit to call Jesus savior, [/QUOTE]
and you are qualified to judge that....how?
[/QUOTE] 2/3irds of the world agrees that egocentric Christianity is a stain on humanity. [/QUOTE]
i see....they finally finished that poll, have they?
[/QUOTE]Lori, I'm going to be brutally honest here, it's going to sound pompus to you, but I really don't care: I shit more brains then you have,[/QUOTE]
wow. again...that dazzling ability to intentionally insult!! take a bow!!!
You can't even ascribe to tell me I am niave and stupid until you contain at the very least have the knowledge I have concerning this topic. Until then: realize you are talking out of your ass, and I will regard you as such.
wow. dont look right at the humility, timmy.....it might blind you.
[/QUOTE]It is, and you are acting like a retard lori. Sincerely. You're acting as if no amount of education could possibly help you intellectually. The mentally handicapped however have a reason for this, you do not. [/QUOTE]
didnt you already say this? like forty different ways? why is it necessary again?
[/QUOTE]You claim to avoid church because the people are judgmental. WAKE UP LORI! You avoid church because YOU are judgmental. You are too lazy to follow the scripture and don't want to be reminded of your duties so you avoid the church like a plague. [/QUOTE]
how do you know the reasons that someone doesnt go to church? jesus christ....you arent THAT smart.
[/QUOTE]Thanks for the swear word Christian, I love it when you let one fly for Jesus![/QUOTE]
i actually enjoyed this one. lol i agree. LET ONE FLY FOR THE BIG GUY!!
[/QUOTE]By what measure of SHEER ARROGANCE can you ascribe to tell me that I never knew God? That I never had a relationship with him? I was a Christian for 20 years Lori, I have a M.div. You never read the bible, profess to be new with christianity, and yet think you can tell me that I don't know or never knew God? Take your self righteousness and shove it right up your ass Lori. (To other Christians: (especially water) let me explain; my degree does not entitle me to tell other people whether they know god, THAT is up to their personal view, but it does verify that I have dedicated a great deal of my life to understanding theos, and for that reason, Lori should not ascribe to tell me what I know or don't know.) [/QUOTE]
i am confused....i thought you didnt believe in god...should we take these above statements to be lies? or are you a hypocrite? you tell others what they do and do not know, but the same cannot be done for you? i see why you dont like it.....it makes you realize that you dont even believe half of the statements you make. BOOOOOO!!!!
[/QUOTE]No Lori, you never read the bible, so you don't know. [/QUOTE]
an example of this hypocrisy in the NEXT paragraph.
[/QUOTE] Thanks for showing everyone just how limited and judgmental you are.[/QUOTE]
yep. exactly what i was just thinking.
[/QUOTE](I feel like a broken fucking record here.) [/QUOTE]
you sound like one, too.
[/QUOTE]You just fucked up Lori. Not only did you offend every body here that does not belong to your denomination, but you just told fellow christians: cole and okinrus, that they don't really know God, and are confused little heathens. [/QUOTE]
i am not part of the denomination she is....she didnt offend me. dont include me in your idiocy, please. you cannot speak for everyone, no matter HOW important you seem to think you are.
[/QUOTE]They at least TRY to be tolerant. And they TRY to not fling around random curse words at people because they are filled with hate for their fellow man and can only mask it for a limited period of time, like YOU! Your mask fell off Lori. And you revealed yourself to be exactly what you condemn. [/QUOTE]
wow. maybe you should practice what you preach, if you want to point fingers at people.
[/QUOTE]And I never said people should take my words for truth. I tell people CONSISTENTLY to go out there and study, to read, to find for themselves. I'm an educator lori, not a preacher. My goal isn't to convert others to my thinking, my goal is to inspire a thirst for knowledge. A knowledge that leads them to their OWN truth, what ever that truth may be, as long as it is accounted for and researched. That's why I have no judgment for a bishop spung but plenty for the falwells of the world. THAT is the difference between a bible scholar and a clergy member. Clergy are under no obligation to receive an education. They take counciling and psych courses to understand how to convert people and minister to spiritual needs. Religion scholars spend decades studying foreign languages, anthropoloy, geography, archeaology, history and scripture to earn their title. And we do it simply to understand, not to convert. Your assumptions about me are so off base it's friggin sad.[/QUOTE]
i have a feeling that your assumptions about being able to give reasons why clergymen do things is a bit off base, myself.
[/QUOTE]You can NOT take personal accounts that can NOT be verified as evidence. If we did then we might as well say aliens exist, elvis is alive, zeus was real and vishnu is a boar all because some two bit retard with a hallucination tells us its true. [/QUOTE]
so what you are saying...is that most of the history from before the time of christ is absolutely incorrect......very interesting......
[/QUOTE] Personal experiance doesn't account for SHIT, THIS is why. It can matter to you personally all day long, but don't try to pass it off to secular society as proof, we have standards for proof and this does not meet them. [/QUOTE]
again.....speaking for an entire society of people. you dont see people of faith speaking for eachother....in fact, most conversations are about differences, in this forum.....*crushed under the weight of your humility*
[/QUOTE]We will continue to exist whether or not it is believed by you. Your belief isn't what matters anyway[/QUOTE]
then why do you have to call someone rude names? if you know for a fact that you are right, that is.
[/QUOTE] I do not believe something because someone told me. I use what people tell me to go out and research whether it is verifiable by empirical evidence. Then, and ONLY then do I ascribe to accept something.[/QUOTE]
really? so you have absolutely no beliefs about anything that you dont research? interesting. i would like to see some of this evidence that god doesnt exist. other than you telling me so, that is.
[/QUOTE]You could of course find this out for yourself if you took a class in hebrew [/QUOTE]
you read hebrew? then why do you never quote the actual literal translations? i mean...for the sake of accuracy and all.
[/QUOTE]I just love it when you judge and belittle! It makes me grin ear to ear when I see your manifest your hypocrisy for all to see. [/QUOTE]
me too!!
[/QUOTE]YOU out of ALL people are going to tell me how much I have read and what I understand biblically? [/QUOTE]
again...practice what you preach. you DONT know.
[/QUOTE]Lori, you're making yourself look like an ass. [/QUOTE]
not just lori, lady. self examination is great. try it.
[/QUOTE] You can call me a bitch, you call me an atheist, you can say I am condescending and abrasive. Say I'm pompus or aloof, because all those things are true! [/QUOTE]
wow. get tired of calling others dirty names? haha.
[/QUOTE] Most people are not able to communicate with deity directly in a physical manner [/QUOTE]
so SOME can?
[/QUOTE] you're dealing with someone who can small bull shit a mile away when it comes to theology. [/QUOTE]
you too. me.
[/QUOTE]And don't try to pretend that you are the alpha and omega of knowledge on god compared to every other being outside of your denomination.[/QUOTE]
considering that the previous paragraph in your post was about how much you know about religion, i suggest you take some of this, YOUR OWN STATEMENT to heart. just a suggestion though.
[/QUOTE] You however continue to insist that you are the alpha and omega and know my heart and have the truth compared to ALL others. And you have NOTHING in your corner to solidify this claim to the world. You're like a kid who covers her ears and shuts her eyes and screams "lalalalala" just to shut everything else out. [/QUOTE]
sounds like this was written about someone i know....*grins sheepishly*
[/QUOTE]Consider yourself lucky I don't bust out with theological terms just to belittle the shit out of you intellectualy. [/QUOTE]
please dont....i dont want to be crushed underfoot by your titanic knowledge!!! please!!
[/QUOTE] I go out of my way to always speak in laymen's terms so I do not ostracize people who desire to understand these concepts. But I can use those terms lori! Oh yes I can, anytime you want me to I can make you consult a fucking dictionary for every sentence I type. Would that solve our issue here? No, it would only serve to chase away people who honestly desire a discussion that everyone can maintain. But if you keep being a sarcastic asshole I'll employ it. [/QUOTE]
all hail the mighty!!! bow before how smart she is!!!!
[/QUOTE]Do ya triple dog dare me? [/QUOTE]
yes.
[/QUOTE] (I can hear my fellow atheists reading this and just laughing till they are blue in the face.) [/QUOTE]
if i were an atheist, id be fairly upset that you make such a big show of making fun of someone who you OBVIOUSLY believe to be "lower" than you.
[/QUOTE] Religion is about hope, so I will never condemn my fellow man for having faith, [/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]Get your defintions straight because I'm tired of playing elementary school teacher.[/QUOTE]
then be as half as mature as you claim to be, and stop.
[/QUOTE]Humility is what forces man to stay ignorant and feel insignificant.
really? wow. i thought ghandi was a wonderful man...i mean....ive only read about him....but im sure you have a personal experience with HIS humility to be able to make such a statement.
[/QUOTE] "True knowledge is knowing you know nothing". [/QUOTE]
strange for you to quote that, considering how much you brag about your knowledge base.
[/QUOTE]And I'm telling you that you are: nuts, hypocritical, annoying, judgmental, ignorant, lacking of compassion, self righteous, arrogant and someone who really can not engage in a constructive conversation because you lack the wits.[/QUOTE]
i ascribe this to you, as well....except for the wits part. ill give you that one. you have them. but you use yours in a negative way toward people that YOU SAID cant understand anything you say.
[/QUOTE]My energy is best spent on people with half a brain who at least understand the basic rules of debate. [/QUOTE]
exactly why i am not going to even acknowledge another post you make. i agree. wholeheartedly.
[/QUOTE]Knowing this: there is nothing left to discuss. You made it quite evident that you aren't capable of debate, that you embody everything you accuse others of. You made it evident that you are comfortable in your ignorance and seek only to argue; not to actually learn or share anything of intellectual value. [/QUOTE]
again.....pictures of you pop to mind.
[/QUOTE]I'd sooner spend my time debating with him and answering michael's questions and engaging people with a rudimentary education then to spend one more second dirtying my intellect with your oral bowel movements[/QUOTE]
me too. me too.
sorry for the quote thingies...for some reason i cant edit the post.
Really you're being one sided, CritiquingChrist was just dishing what had been dished by Lori.The Devil Inside said:
ie: In repose to a child being raised to be a believer:
Lori: “You "deconvert" because you were a gullable idiot to "convert" in the first place”
or
“Listen, I know that you're slow, but my name is spelled L...O...R...I.”
Gravity said:
GRAVITY and MICHEAL,
Perhaps animals and humans are just very complex versions of the things we now call plants. I'm not supporting this theory at all, and an animal differs from a plant far more than a human differs from an animal, but the theory's use here is just to bring attention to the following point -
The word human is often used in opposition to the word animal to indicate the hominid and it's qualities. There is common belief that man is the only animal capable of having certain thought patterns. There are implications made that we are not on the same level as the other families, when it comes to our level of consciousness and responsibility for our actions, when people use the word "human" in the way Yorda seems to be.
Human - adjective 1)characteristic of humanity; "human nature" 2)relating to a person; "the experiment was conducted on six monkeys and two human subjects" 3)having human form or attributes as opposed to those of animals or divine beings; "human beings"; "the human body"; "human kindness"; "human frailty" [ant: {nonhuman}]
noun 1)a human being; "there was too much for one person to do" [syn: {person}, {individual}, {someone}, {somebody}, {mortal}, {soul}] 2)any living or extinct member of the family Hominidae [syn: {homo}, {man}, {human being}]
Perhaps if we all come to believe we are part of one cosmic machine we will toss aside the use of "human" and "animal," as words distinguishing levels of consciousness. For now I think there are understood distinctions between us and the other animals. Maybe we will find these distinctions incorrect. If so, I'm sure better words will be accepted into the language at that time. For now the word "human" seems to be a useful tool for making definitions with, and I will support it's use in this way, although it may be giving us more credit than we deserve.
This usage is not JUST a functional laxity. This is not a biology forum, so strict definitions are harder to come by. If you would like to argue the point that there is no difference between the hominids and the other families, go ahead. If you would like to argue with YORDA that everything is not a unity, please do. Please don't waste my time with empty words, I can watch tv for that.
MICHEAL, I appreciate you trying to be understanding.
GRAVITY, you don't look smarter when you poke fun, you just look louder and meaner.
I would suggest that the aggressive behavior is a symptom of unfaced fear in some people's cases. I will refrain from pointing fingers, as I am just extrapolating this from other available knowledge, but it's just something to think about.
CAN WE END THE PISSING CONTEST PLEASE? I am not here to referee, but we're wasting too much time with this stuff. It is kind of pathetic.
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>>GRAVITY, you don't look smarter when you poke fun, you just look louder and meaner. <<
Not trying to ''look smarter'' -- I'm just telling it how I see it. And generally such accusations come from seeing yourself in others. Sometimes called ''transference''.
And after the "god-man'' and ''its always 6666 years ago'' idiocy, don't worry about judging me further - I'm out of this thread! Flat-earthers, UFO abuctionists & crystal healers all have at least more rational arguments than this!
Not trying to ''look smarter'' -- I'm just telling it how I see it. And generally such accusations come from seeing yourself in others. Sometimes called ''transference''.
And after the "god-man'' and ''its always 6666 years ago'' idiocy, don't worry about judging me further - I'm out of this thread! Flat-earthers, UFO abuctionists & crystal healers all have at least more rational arguments than this!
Michael said:
i agree. i apologize for my one sidedness.
for CritiquingChrist AND Lori.......here are some of our forum rules.
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Yea, I haven't responded to her last post because I don't want to play like that. It's not worth it. I'm sorry but I don't know if I've ever heard anyone so pompous before, and she just really pissed me off...sorry. Temptation's a bitch sometimes.
Love,
Lori
Love,
Lori
i see your posts just like i see hers.
i chose to use hers because they were written more intelligently. please dont flatter yourself.
i chose to use hers because they were written more intelligently. please dont flatter yourself.
CritiquingChrist
Registered Member
Oh boy Michael, you just opened up a can of WORMS! This question, right here, is the biggie all comparative religions scholars face. This is the most magnificient question theology has ever posed, and it has the most magnificent answer as well.
Theology is not a science, but is a proto version in that: religion was man kinds way of making sense of the natural, (primitive science) It was mankind's first philosophy, it was mankinds first attempt at recording history. Though religion is saturated with mythos that have no basis in fact, it also contains truths about our evolution. A great deal of information regarding the migration of humans was taken from theology. How is this done? We separate biological based mythos, from mythos concerning ritual, linguistics, race and geography. We then turn to these in their sciences (sociology/anthropology, linguistics, dna studies concerning human relation and geology/archeaology) to find the empirical evidences we need to solidify our theories which were originally formed on scripture.
When Einstein said: "Science is lame without religion, and religion is blind without science" THIS is what he was refering to. All of our ancient history as experianced by our species is ONLY personally known via religion. Science needs religion in that we provide the basis of mankinds' experiance. And religion needs science in that it helps us to decipher what is fact from what is mythos. We are handicapped without one another, and in relying upon each other we can then ascribe to understand the totality of humanity.
So Religion looks at commonalities between mythos and asks: WHY??? We trace the practices and beliefs of the ancients while science traces the empirical evidences. We blend these together to come up with what fits the evidence and the words of our ancestors as revealed by scripture. We have formed a theory based on this collaboration. It encompasses well over 25,000 years of human history so for me to explain it in detail would be an impossible task. For this reason I will give a very short summary of the first half of it, and the second half shall be more explanatory, but still brief.
I said earlier that religion originally started as a matriarchy, evolved into dualism and then went to patriarchy. What caused these evolutions were climate and technology changes. The theory religion scholars are working on is that religion developed with man in Africa (some wonder if it is an innate trait in humanity, something we developed as a result of being creatures which can understand our own demise and insignificance.) In either event, if you look at our migrations you will see we came out of African and settled into Asia, living in small hunting/gathering societies. And so humanity lived scattered in small bands across two main continents, slowly migrating following herds. We were a matriarchy then. All of our understanding of life derived from the human experiance: hence we viewed the earth as a female entity, and appealed to ancestral worship. We also practiced animism and pantheism (the idea that everything contains spirit) Humanity lived like this until about 13,000 years ago in which we experianced world floods.
These aren't the floods of Biblical proportions (which science maintains is impossible.) But as the ice age ended we suffered local geographical floods which impacted our lives as hunters and gatherers because traditional herding grounds moved and much vegetation was ruined. Humanity migrated accordingly, a great deal retreating to the Caucus mountains and others retaining their positions in low lands which were unaffected en masse by the floods. Such places as central Africa, India, Iraq, etc. These human groups which continued on in their traditional lands maintained their matriarchal practices, but the civilizations which retreated to higher lands became more dependant on Hunting versus gathering. These human groups ceased venerating matriarchal ideald. Logically, the ability to give life was no longer of the utmost importance, sustaining life took its previous place on the heirarchy of needs.
Who are the sustainers? Men. Women are vital for continuing on the species, but we are also dependant creatures due to the fact that we gestate, breast feed and nurture our young. Hence, we became more dependant on males when there was no vegetation to gather, and hunting became the prime source for food. This change in our lifestyle affected our view of matriarchy and we see these changes taking place in our oral traditions that were later recorded in scripture.
As I said earlier every religion on earth contains a flood story, ever one of these stories has a female womb creatrix, and a patriarchal deity battles this water to sustain creation. Then we see myths concerning sacrificial kings where the patriarchal deity who is victor, must also sacrifice himself back to the womb waters so that life may continue. This is dualism, where we have deities dependant upon each other, where we have adrogyeous deities, etc. Many scholars maintain that this trend could also be reflectant on biologicalism, but it suits better with the climatic catalysts and subsequent lifestyle changes. Why? Because if this was biologicalism then dualism would have always prevailed, and we would not see earlier cultures still practicing matriarchy where the floods did not effect them.
In any event, humanity lived like this for around 3,000 years, and eventually the caucus peoples retreated from the mountain following the migrating herds and came across the low level matriarchies, Indus Valley people, which we know as Hindus. (The Hindus adapted to agricultural lifestyle around 10,000 years ago along with Egypt, Iraq, etc.) Hindu oral tradition contained these stories and they are reflected in the Rig Vedas. The story is that a group of lighter skin people began invading their lands around 6,500 BC. They call these people the aryans (whose symbol was the swastika). These people brought to them the concept of patriarchy, and created a caste system in their culture. (All that I say here is recorded in sanskrit, the Hindu written language, there are early texts in the language of the original Indus valley people but it is in a language called Dravidian and know one is able to translate it as of yet.) It should be noted that some Indian scholars are offended by the idea of India being conquered by these Aryans. Their negation of the event violates the notion that the cities of Harappa and Mohenjodaro simply stopped ceasing to exist. But it it did lead to another interesting alternative: The Aryans cold have came down and coexisted with the Hindus, effecting each other's cultures and they fled the ancient cities due to some social event, and once again began migrating. I have hope this theory shall be settled once we are able to understand Dravidian.
Regardless of how they came to India, we can see the early matriarchal trinities being slowly replaced by matriarchal ones. We can trace a ceasing of matriarchy in the Vedas, and a division between these people in their cultural laws (such as the caste.) DNA evidence shows the mixing of races in this area, and Linguistics shows the merging of their languages.
We know small bands of Aryans mastered sea-faring as a result of their contact with the Indus peoples. And they also mastered land migration over the thousands of years of their existence. They left the Indus valley (by this time they are referred to by historians as Indo-Aryans.) and they spread their culture in all directions, the farthest migration heading north west ward. Up through the Balkans and making the first Galatian settlements. We can see this spread theologically. For everywhere the Indo-Aryans went, so too followed their patriarchy. Archeaology supports it, as well as linguistics. The Indo-Aryan language directly influenced Germanic, Slavic, Greek, Romance, Celtic, etc. Semitic langauge reflects a mixture of Indo Aryan with Afro-Asiatic tongues. Same too with Arabic, Egyptian, Berber, Cushitic & Chadic.
Hence, we see all these cultures having matriarchal roots, a very short dualistic view, and suddenly immersed in patriarchy. It is theorized that it is due primarily to the Indo-Aryan influence. And all outside sources of evidence backs this theory up. This is how all of the world religions reflect one another: not only do we share commonalities due to our human condition, but also suffering the same climatic events, changes in techology, and finally shared cultures via the rampant migrating of Aryans, Phoencian sea-farers and the later Nordic sea farers. Modern people tend to see the world as it is now. Cultures separated via mass distances, and we also think of our ancestors as technologically deficient. That is our errant thought, not reflectant of the history of humanity. Our ancestors had a great deal of technology, much of it was lost as a result of cultural wars such as the dark ages, and destruction of institutions of knowledge such as with the Alexandrian library, etc. Wars that set us back nearly 2,000 years in technology. We are only know coming to understand that ancient cultures such as Rome, Greece, Carthage, etc. had vast understanding of the cosmos, medicine, geometry, architecture, transportation, etc.
So there ya have it, a brief summation of how we can explain for the commonalities in our religions. I hope it is somehow useful considering how short it is.
The best book I have ever came across in regards to how we have recycled our myths through out history is called: "The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets". By Barbara G. Walker. It is a literal encyclopedia, where you can look up any deity or religious practice, and it shall cover it's original appearance & meaning in history and subsequently trace how it evolved and relates to other religions through out the globe. I discovered this book in 1990 and have went through three copies thus far. I consult it on a minimum of a weekly basis. Out of all of my years studying religion, it is without a doubt the most informative book I have ever come across and it is a literal joy to own. I'm a lover of books Michael, having read more texts then I can house, but this book: it is the crown jewel. I reccomend it hands down to anyone who wants a crash course in comparative religions. You can not buy it book stores because it is out of print, but you can pick up a copy via amazon, which is where I scored my last two copies.
Yep, Amen is basically an affirmation. And yeah, it is shocking when you realize just how ancient our terms are. To this day I am still blown away when I read up on the history of terminology, for instance: the word "ferris wheel" actually comes from the ancient Gall myths of the fairies turning their wheel of Earth. Testify comes from the ancient practice of men holding their hands on the testicles and giving oath, swearing upon their fertility. "Ma" is one of the oldest words humanity has ever spoken. It may be as old as human language itself, and it has meant the same thing as long as it has been in existance. Anyway, back to Amen. It literaly means: "let it be". Priests of Amen (Amun) Rah chanted it every morning, calling him to raise from the belly of his mother, celebrating his rebirth so that life may continue. Amen's heiroglyph was actually a pregnant belly, signifying it's daily rebirth and the source of earth's fertility. Amen was simply the deity which represented the sun, and the first form of monotheism was basically to place him at the head of the pantheon and dismiss all the other deities. It didn't work... LOL But, the ancient praise of him kept. We must remember that this belief was in humanity far before he was exalted, just as Yhwh was around far before he was exalted, etc.
Michael, thanks for asking such thoughtful questions. I know I could have expounded on the answers more and I appreciate you accepting their brevity. Please know I am more than happy to expound upon them further if you desire me to do so. When I was younger I enjoyed killing sacred cows and knocking over sacred idols. The sermon that was copied here shows that. Though I am still abrasive and vocal concerning my thoughts on Christianity, as I aged and advanced in my education, my passion spread beyond critiquing, to understanding the need for ancient mythos, and sharing what I have learned. You have allowed me to do that by asking these questions. I appreciate the opportunity to go beyond mere debating and actually share things that are little known amongst people outside of my field. It puts me back in the role as educator and not mere antagonist, which is very refreshing. It also gives me the opportunity to show the people here that religion goes far beyond what is truth or false. That religion is man's attempt to understand his existence, man's attempt at veneration, and his attempt to share with his descendants (us) the world as he experianced it.
We sometimes get so involved in our own salvation, that we forget the deeper meaning of religion. We forget that these ancient mythos are exercises in our ancestors speaking to us about their history. We forget that these mythos can whisper to us our nature. Religion is not necessarily God reaching out to us, it includes our forefathers and mothers reaching out to us, in hope that we carry on the tradition of understanding our existence, and contemplating our role in the world. They carry to us their hope of a peaceful and meaningful existence. We spend so much time using religion to conquer one another, we forget that the goal of religion should be to conquer ourselves. So that we can live the heavens our forefathers dreamed of right here in human existence. THAT is my message to the world concerning religion. Christian, Muslim, Wiccan, Jew, Buddhist, it doesn't matter. Each of these beliefs LIMIT the totality of human experiance, and if the goal of religion is unification, then perhaps it is time to abandon a narrow path for a worldy one.
I'm an atheist, with a deep religiousness. I do not believe any scripture is literal truth. But it is subjective truth in testifying to our dire need for a better nature. It is our duty as "children of God" (or as I call it: existance) to embrace this ideal and live it before we pass the insanity on to the next generation, and become just another ancestor in the chain of mythos who failed in finding redemption. So the fundies here can battle me, screaming I don't know what I am talking about because I refuse to walk their narrow path. But I hope they can some day come to realize: my decision is not in hate of their life, but in love of all life.