Atheists

[superluminal]

So what are we on about here? Chemicals? Actually everything comes down to quarks. But analyzing feelings in terms of quarks would be pretty useless. All feelings are clearly complex neurochemical adaptations and reactions to various stimuli, but so what? Anyway, I read some previous posts about how atheism and theism are both weak and "founded" on, oh, I forget, suppositions or something. Or that everyones point of view has validity or something.

Bollocks. Atheism is, for the umpteenth time, a-theism. A lack of a need to invoke a god to explain the universe. How freaking easy is that? It's not a belief system. I don't believe there is no god. I just don't invoke one in my life. My worldview consists of accepting the best scientific wisdom of the day regarding objective reality. Subjective reality (your inner states) have no bearing on the objective world except in how they influence your outward behavior.

samcdkey:

1) What exactly is your religion? I forget.

2) Is that you in your avatar?

3) Whether it is or not, that's one very alluring avatar.

 

[superluminal]

samcdkey,

You said that those arguing on both sides of this deal don't know what they're arguing about. How's that, exactly?

 

[S.A.M.]

samcdkey,

You said that those arguing on both sides of this deal don't know what they're arguing about. How's that, exactly?

Well I don't remember the exact context, but I believe that many Muslims like many Christians simply read their scritures without understanding them; due to social responsibilities and increasing changes in the perception of what role religion plays in life, they simply focus on specific points in the history or the scriptures as a basis for argument.

The main thing that everyone should remember is that the religion you choose to follow is a personal choice. Why are you a Christian/Muslim/Jew/atheist/Hindu/Buddist etc is an inappropriate question.

The question must be why am I a ......(fill in the blank with your religion)?

Why do you choose to follow this religion?

What attracts you about its philososphy?

Why do you need this philosophy?

What are the benefits to you, if you choose this religion?

Do these beliefs enrich and sustain you; do you feel they encourage you to be the best?

All five fingers are not of the same length; if they were would they be as functional.

The Quran says: There is no compulsion in religion.

I believe that, because I CHOOSE to be a Muslim.

That does not mean everyone has the same needs, the same questions, the same philosophy about life. You can choose to be anything to want. We all have FREE WILL.

I think if people looked inwards and expended the same energy on examining their own faith, which is more productive, than trying to break down every one else's we would actually get some answers.

 

[superluminal]

Well I don't remember the exact context, but I believe that many Muslims like many Christians simply read their scritures without understanding them; due to social responsibilities and increasing changes in the perception of what role religion plays in life, they simply focus on specific points in the history or the scriptures as a basis for argument.

The main thing that everyone should remember is that the religion you choose to follow is a personal choice. Why are you a Christian/Muslim/Jew/atheist/Hindu/Buddist etc is an inappropriate question.

The question must be why am I a ......(fill in the blank with your religion)?

Why do you choose to follow this religion?

What attracts you about its philososphy?

Why do you need this philosophy?

What are the benefits to you, if you choose this religion?

Do these beliefs enrich and sustain you; do you feel they encourage you to be the best?

All five fingers are not of the same length; if they were would they be as functional.

The Quran says: There is no compulsion in religion.

I believe that, because I CHOOSE to be a Muslim.

That does not mean everyone has the same needs, the same questions, the same philosophy about life. You can choose to be anything to want. We all have FREE WILL.

I think if people looked inwards and expended the same energy on examining their own faith, which is more productive, than trying to break down every one else's we would actually get some answers.

Ok then. Except for lumping atheism in with the religions, I think that's just super. What do you say to those of us who find that religious belief breeds a certainty of correctness, not subject to logical verification, that much of the time results in oppressing or injuring those who do not believe?

 

[Zephyr]

Atheism is similar to religions in that it presumes a certain truth; agnosticism disagrees with the certainty of any truth.

 

[spiritual_spy]

Atheism is similar to religions in that it presumes a certain truth; agnosticism disagrees with the certainty of any truth.

Depends on your defintition of atheism.

 

[Regulus]

Well, here's the thing. Religion, is a belief. Though in Athiesm there's nothing dogmatic about it, there's still a belief factor there.

And it's not to say Religion has no logical explanation of it, but it does however preach an apsolute and only path, thus with apsolutes there is ignorance, because it praches no other way.

And as SS says, depends on your definition of athiesm. Agognostic is different, agognostic is tipping towards no belief, no matter how logical or illogical it is. Athiesm is the end all be all, NO GOD WHATSOEVER.

 

[superluminal]

Atheism is similar to religions in that it presumes a certain truth; agnosticism disagrees with the certainty of any truth.

Again:

a-moral: not moral.
a-typical: not typical
a-theist: not a theist.

We don't have beliefs, for the billionth time. We have a LACK of belief in a god. How simple is that?

 

[Regulus]

Here's how it's a belief, becuz you logically haven't explained how a Universe can create itself.

You have no scientific evidence. You act as if it's a truth, not a belief.

A belief has no scientific evidence. Neither does Athiesm.

 

[S.A.M.]

Ok then. Except for lumping atheism in with the religions, I think that's just super. What do you say to those of us who find that religious belief breeds a certainty of correctness, not subject to logical verification, that much of the time results in oppressing or injuring those who do not believe?

I think that the violence we see in people is a basis for this. We have not yet, and perhaps never will advance to a state where we are able to look at someone who has diametrically opposite views from us and say: we are both right.


I certainly do not believe that a godless society will bring peace. Is there any society anywhere in the world that has ever lived in peace for an extended period of time?

There will always be people who will steal rape murder; why else do we need laws?

People with similar beliefs will always find a way to get together and do what thay want; they may call it cult, tribe, religion, language, whatever.

 

[spiritual_spy]

Well, here's the thing. Religion, is a belief. Though in Athiesm there's nothing dogmatic about it, there's still a belief factor there.

And it's not to say Religion has no logical explanation of it, but it does however preach an apsolute and only path, thus with apsolutes there is ignorance, because it praches no other way.

And as SS says, depends on your definition of athiesm. Agognostic is different, agognostic is tipping towards no belief, no matter how logical or illogical it is. Athiesm is the end all be all, NO GOD WHATSOEVER.

thats just one definition. thats is common misconception though. We dont believe there IS no god we just lack belief in a god.
its not belief there is no god but lack of belief there is god. there is a diffrence

 

[superluminal]

Here's how it's a belief, becuz you logically haven't explained how a Universe can create itself.

You have no scientific evidence. You act as if it's a truth, not a belief.

A belief has no scientific evidence. Neither does Athiesm.

1) I have no "beliefs" regarding the origin of the universe, prior to the Big Bang, therefore I have no "explanation" nor do I require one.

2) I have a mountain of scientific evidence that describes the evolution of the universe from hot-dense state to the current state. That interpretation is always subject to change based on new evidence.

3) Atheism is not a belief system. All it means is that we have a LACK of belief in a god. So easy, isn't it?

 

[superluminal]

I think that the violence we see in people is a basis for this. We have not yet, and perhaps never will advance to a state where we are able to look at someone who has diametrically opposite views from us and say: we are both right.


I certainly do not believe that a godless society will bring peace. Is there any society anywhere in the world that has ever lived in peace for an extended period of time?

There will always be people who will steal rape murder; why else do we need laws?

People with similar beliefs will always find a way to get together and do what thay want; they may call it cult, tribe, religion, language, whatever.

I agree. I suppose my opinion though, is that "religious mania" as I will call it (as opposed to the common form of "church-on-the-weekend" kind of religion) is one major avoidable source of suffering.

 

[S.A.M.]

I agree. I suppose my opinion though, is that "religious mania" as I will call it (as opposed to the common form of "church-on-the-weekend" kind of religion) is one major avoidable source of suffering.

Ah, my dear, you have a lot of faith in people.

Me, I believe people with such tendencies, just look for the most plausible excuse to justify their actions.

Take away the excuse, by all means, but will that change the people?

 

[Regulus]

2) I have a mountain of scientific evidence that describes the evolution of the universe from hot-dense state to the current state. That interpretation is always subject to change based on new evidence.

Not exactly, evidnce of how the Universe eventuated doesn't explain the eventuality of what eventuated the Universe. You may have scientific evidence of how the Universe came to be, but that doesn't rule out Gods existance, if that is what you were trying to use as a way of disproving God.

3) Atheism is not a belief system. All it means is that we have a LACK of belief in a god. So easy, isn't it?

Alright, then I apologize for the misconception.

 

[superluminal]

Ah, my dear, you have a lot of faith in people.

Me, I believe people with such tendencies, just look for the most plausible excuse to justify their actions.

Take away the excuse, by all means, but will that change the people?

That is one damn fine question.

I've said it before - I wouldn't mind trying the experiment. A world without religious certainty driving events. Hmmm...

 

[S.A.M.]

That is one damn fine question.

I've said it before - I wouldn't mind trying the experiment. A world without religious certainty driving events. Hmmm...

Do you know of any atheist societies? Its not an issue where I come from so I have never looked at it.

 

[superluminal]

Do you know of any atheist societies? Its not an issue where I come from so I have never looked at it.

Nope. That's the thing about it. That social experiment has never been done to my knowledge. Religion seems to have been the overwhelming organizing force behind societies since the dawn of man.

 

[S.A.M.]

Maybe there have been atheists in every society; but like homosexuality, atheism is a deviation from the accepted norm of the majority and that would probably have discouraged them from giving voice to their beliefs.

Same reason that they may not have got together as a group.

According to wiki:
Secular/Irreligious/Agnostic/Atheist = 1.1 billion

that is a heck of a lot of people.

 

[superluminal]

Maybe there have been atheists in every society; but like homosexuality, atheism is a deviation from the accepted norm of the majority and that would probably have discouraged them from giving voice to their beliefs.

Same reason that they may not have got together as a group.

According to wiki:
Secular/Irreligious/Agnostic/Atheist = 1.1 billion

that is a heck of a lot of people.

Yes it is.

Also, "coming out" as an atheist is definitely dangerous in a rural, fundamentalist christian area such as where I live. It would make my life difficult to say the least. Which is one of the ironies of so-called christian behavior. Love thy neighbor, as long as he's a christian. Go figure.