Atheist..Please stand up

<i>** The origin of cells?</i>

Cells formed from simpler forms of life. The origin of the first forms of life is uncertain, but probably it was spontaneous. Simple molecules at some stage became self-replicating and life was born.

<i>** Energy from where?</i>

For the big bang? We don't know yet.

<i>Athiest don't deny the existance of other life forms...
** Why not?(confused)</i>

Because atheism is a disbelief in <b>God</b>. It has nothing to do with thinking that life on Earth is the only life possible.

<i>** How did you come into existence?</i>

When a mummy and a daddy love each other very much...

<i>** Are you dead?The life force that allows you to write me.</i>

How can I measure this "life force"? What kind of detector should I use? Does a rock have "life force"? How can I tell?

<i>There is no designer of this complex universe.
** Why not?</i>

Who knows?

<i>** How is it that sex interrupts a seemly progressive evolution?</i>

What do you mean "interrupts"? Sex doesn't interrupt evolution. If anything, it helps it.

<i>** Alternate universe created by us?(he-he)</i>

Maybe. If you think it's so funny, perhaps you can give a good scientific reason why it might not be possible to create extra universes?

<i>We didn't evolve from monkeys! We have a common ansestor!
** What?</i>

All of today's cars followed on from the Model T Ford, right? So, you might say that a Ferrari and a Mini Minor both evolved from the Model T Ford. But you wouldn't say that the Mini Minor evolved from the Ferrari, would you? Or that the Ferrari evolved from the Mini? They share a common ancestor.
 
Lady,

Most christians use the "Why are there still monkeys around then?" question. This is easily answered.

There are many different species of birds, were talkin alot. Now all bird species are not the same. If there was just one bird species then they would all evolve together. Humans are a off shoot of monkeys. We are almost the same but we are just different speices.

Explain the intelligence of monkeys to me, please do so.

P.S. The sun has no "Life Force".
 
I feel like I'm begging now...

Yo Lady, are you planning on responding to my last post? :)
If you simply don't have a response that is ok. If you need time
to formulate a response that is also ok. Just let me know! Set
my expectations!

-CC
 
"** The origin of cells? "

According to your genisis story, humans just popped in here. Not only was there absolutely no mention of bacteria or any other small creatures, but god obviously didn't believe in them sinse he tried to kill "all living things" with a flood. Bacteria thrive in water.

The origin of cells is most probably much to complicated for you to understand. I HAVE tried to explain it, but you seem to think life can only come from things that have a "life force". I'm pretty sure you don't think that calcium has a life force do you? We need a bit of calcium to survive.

We atheists think of the human body as a machine. You have many misconceptions about how the universe works. I highly doubt that we could clear those up on a forum like this.
LET US say that there was an engine, a car body, and a waterproof battery floating around in a very very dense liquid. If the battery somehow found its way into the engine, then the engine somehow found its way into the car front, the car could work. For some reason this car (once working) reproduces itself into other working cars.

So early earth had many of these "car parts" (organic material) floating around and over time a battery found itself in an engine and that engine got itself into a car body. The probability is low, but the time is huge. It could be equated to rolling 20 dice billions upon billions of time and expecting to get 20 6s at least once. You probably would.

"** Energy from where? "

As James R said, we don't know. Religious people have the tendency to think that everything is solved because god did everything. Atheists realize that we do not now everything and that is what science is for.

"** Why not?(confused)"

Why DON'T we dismiss other life forms? Because we think that out there, most probably a couple of the billions of stars harbor a planet that can support life. God has nothing to do with this.

Can you accept that there is no proof of god?

"** Are you dead?The life force that allows you to write me. "

Lady, where is this "life force" it is one of those many religious things that is not proven. How can you believe in something that has no proof?

Why would your god talk to you and not to me?

"** Why not? "

That is the most childish question I have ever heard. There is no evidence that the universe doesn't have a creator, period. Therefore we do not believe in one. There is no evidence that A giant space-rat lives on the moon, do you belive in it?

"** How is it that sex interrupts a seemly progressive evolution? "

Once agian, evolution is not progressive. Evolution is only a process that weeds out DNA patterns that never reproduce. Things that die before reproducing, go extinct. Sex doesn't interrupt evolution, but our society has "progressed" enough so that most of us, smart or stupid, usefull or not, live long enough to reproduce. In this way, all but the worst DNA patterns survive and give their traits, be they good or bad, to the next generation.

"** Alternate universe created by us?(he-he)"

No actually.

"Can the non-existence of God be proved scientifically?"

Something which is non-existent can NOT be disproven or proven. It is for this very reason that us Athiests do not belive.

"** As soon as people realize science is only the study of God's universe not the creator of it. "

That is an incomplete sentence, why do all religious people ASK for me to tell them to learn english?
 
QUOTE]Originally posted by Frencheneesz
sinse he tried to kill "all living things" with a flood. Bacteria thrive in water.

Just out of curiosity, if He tried to kill everything, why did He as Noah to gather up 2 of every kind?

The origin of cells is most probably much too complicated for you to understand.

Please explain it again, or direct me to your previous explanation, I am most interested, thanx.

We atheists think of the human body as a machine.

It takes a deliberate act to assemble machines, wouldn’t you say, the natural physical laws alone can not produce the artificial form of a machine, as you are suggesting. Imagine what would be involved for even the simplest machine, (a wheel barrow for example) to come together by chance, in a world without life, so what to speak of the human body, which is stupidly complex by comparison.
The form of a machine depends on the desire of an intelligent conscious being, and not just on the natural physical laws. This is fact.

The probability is low, but the time is huge. It could be equated to rolling 20 dice billions upon billions of time and expecting to get 20 6s at least once. You probably would.

And you probably wouldn’t.

As James R said, we don't know. Religious people have the tendency to think that everything is solved because god did everything.

No, God is the cause of everything.

Atheists realize that we do not now everything and that is what science is for.

Science cannot explain what happened before the alleged big-bang, science cannot explain consciousness, nor life, so science is not a very good method in that context, at best it can tell us the building blocks of nature from a certain point.
Imagine being trapped in the nucleus of some gigantic form which has a certain time span and extends for billions and billions of miles, and digging our way out with pencils, we will progress, but not before total destruction.

Can you accept that there is no proof of god?

No.

"** Are you dead?The life force that allows you to write me. "

Lady, where is this "life force" it is one of those many religious things that is not proven.

She did, the fact that you are writing to her is proof that you are alive, there has to be some mechanism that makes you alive, and that mechanism is described as “life force.” It cannot be any material compound that creates this life-force, because when you are dead, these chemicals are still present within your body. It is logical to assume that the chemicals operate, as long as there is life, but cease to function when there is no "life," just as our physical bodies would cease to exist without the energy of the sun.

How can you believe in something that has no proof?

That’s a good question.

There is no evidence that the universe doesn't have a creator, period. Therefore we do not believe in one.

What complex machines do you know, in this present day and age, have been created purely by natural physical laws?

It is for this very reason that us Athiests do not belive.

This “belief” is purely subjective, common sense will tell you that a wheel barrow is not suddenly going to appear, or it is not naturally going to evolve into something else or has evolved from something, and that it is only going to made by some form of intelligence, which operates outside of the laws of nature.

That is an incomplete sentence, why do all religious people ASK for me to tell them to learn english?

Why are you so arrogant?

Love

Jan Ardena.
 
Dear Jan,

Jan,
I’ve just finished reading the entire thread, and I now have a few questions to ask you. If you really believe in God, then from what I understand, you should answer these questions honestly and in good faith, because that’s what God would want, right? And bear this in mind - your answers will possibly contribute to me converting, so please, again, keep that in mind.
Okay, here goes:-
Why don’t you like monkeys? - as I understand it, they are also one of God's creatures.
Why does God exist?
Where did God come from?
How did he make humans?
How did he make all the other creatures on the planet? Could you include the extinct species with this answer?
Were the extinct species (like the dinosaurs) mistakes made by God?
Who did God have sex with to make his son, Jesus?
Did God just put us on one little planet in the universe and leave the rest of the universe alone?
Does God talk to you?
If I told you that God spoke to me and he said you were unbalanced, would you believe me?
What does God look like?
Is he really a ‘he’? Could he be a she?
Does God love atheist equally?
Does God love everyone? - if the answer to that is 'yes', then why is there a heaven and hell?
Has God ever given you a tangible sign that he exists? If so, what was that sign?

I have many other questions, but for now, I would like to see whether you will do the right thing and answer these questions to the best of your ability.
Thank you
Teri.
 
Originally posted by Teri 2

Why don’t you like monkeys? - as I understand it, they are also one of God's creatures.
Click to expand...
Are you kidding? Monkeys are pure evil! Those things are freaky. Especially the Ebola Monkeys! :eek:
 
"It takes a deliberate act to assemble machines, wouldn’t you say, the natural physical laws alone can not produce the artificial form of a machine, as you are suggesting. Imagine what would be involved for even the simplest machine, (a wheel barrow for example) to come together by chance, in a world without life, so what to speak of the human body, which is stupidly complex by comparison.
The form of a machine depends on the desire of an intelligent conscious being, and not just on the natural physical laws. This is fact. "

Lets say you have a puzzle, Jan, with 10,000 pieces. You throw all these pieces onto a large surface that vibrates evenly. As soon as a piece lands in the right spot of the puzzle it locks in, so that it and the piece(s) it connects to now move as one larger piece. No go away for 10,000 years and come back, would you say there is at least a good chance of the puzzle being formed by the time you get back?

"No, God is the cause of everything. "

In your opinion of course.

"Imagine being trapped in the nucleus of some gigantic form which has a certain time span and extends for billions and billions of miles, and digging our way out with pencils, we will progress, but not before total destruction. "

So what do you propose we do? Simply do away with science altogether? We'd be sitting in caves wearing animal skins and eating raw meat. We've discovered more in the last century than we have in the last millenium before that. Science may be a slower process than religion when it comes to answers, but at least with science you can be absolutely sure the answers you eventually get are the right ones. Personally, I'd rather wait for the right answer than pick the faster, wronger answer.

"No."

So if I took you to court and asked you to prove God existed in front of an agnostic judge and jury they would (based on your evidence) rule that he does?

"What complex machines do you know, in this present day and age, have been created purely by natural physical laws? "

The sun. Black holes. Galaxies. Quasars. Just to name a few.

"This “belief” is purely subjective, common sense will tell you that a wheel barrow is not suddenly going to appear, or it is not naturally going to evolve into something else or has evolved from something, "

Evolution is a property of life Jan.

"and that it is only going to made by some form of intelligence, which operates outside of the laws of nature. "

Jan all of your examples so far have been technological. Technology forms because we create it, however stars don't form because someone creates them. Neither do planets or black holes. They form because the laws of physics guide them. They don't seem to need a creator, so why should the rest of the universe?
 
"Just out of curiosity, if He tried to kill everything, why did He as Noah to gather up 2 of every kind? "

I thought you would understand I meant everything EXCEPT noah and his arch. What is your answer to the fact that god didn't realize that sea creatures would survive along with the many billions of bacteria and viri that terrorize human health?

"Please explain it again, or direct me to your previous explanation"

I really don't want to explain it again. Pretty much, tini particles formed that did certain things, when those particles came together they worked as a unit. Those units came together in a simple cell and it went on from there. MANY MANY of these particles formed and came together. BILLIONS did not work together and rendered eachother unable to work together. Maybe only a couple (1 or 2) actually worked and went on to reproduce and eat everything else. Life is really just an eating machine.

"And you probably wouldn’t. "

Good job at the contradiction. But give me a bit more insight than that.

"there has to be some mechanism that makes you alive"

This does not mean there is a "life force". Does a rock have a "rock force" that makes it a rock? No. Does a dust particle have a "dust-particle force"? Ill let you answer that one.

"It is logical to assume that the chemicals operate, as long as there is life, but cease to function when there is no "life," "

As we describe the death of a human, many of the body's parts are still alive. Hair and nails continue to grow well after the brain is "dead". The cells continue to live as long as they get food. Thus proving your life force wrong. If it is right, then a human has millions of life forces, and not a single "one".

"What complex machines do you know, in this present day and age, have been created purely by natural physical laws? "

Life, for one. If you don't like that one. How bout solar systems? Stars. Atoms.

"Why are you so arrogant? "

Likewise.

Why does your god want us to worship him? Is he lonely?
 
As we describe the death of a human, many of the body's parts are still alive. Hair and nails continue to grow well after the brain is "dead". The cells continue to live as long as they get food. Thus proving your life force wrong. If it is right, then a human has millions of life forces, and not a single "one".

Really? Im going to start going to the morgue to pick up chicks...LITERALLY!!!
 
Here we go again...

prove disprove prove disprove... blab blab...

The fact is theists believe because of faith in that which is unseen (God). So do atheists (unseen past occurances).

Theists believe that Jesus was the proof of God. Atheists either think Jesus did not ever exist, or that he was an eccentric rabbi who died long ago.

Theists see the universe as a devinely created system which proves beyond doubt that a creator exists. Atheists reject all theistic claims as bogus hogwash. Why? Because the evidence isn't sound? Because the evidence isn't logical? No. Because a theist made the claim. Plain and simple.

The illogical-ness of atheism is very clearly demarcated in my rather cogent post called <a href="http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9060">"atheistic syllogisms"</a>. Please peruse them and see that most atheist arguments fit one of the syllogisms that I constructed.

Ours is not a debate, but individual presentations of divergent viewpoints. As I have said before...

"We must seek to convince the unconvinced, not vise versa."

There can only be tolerance and understanding. Intolerance (often alleged by atheists to be a common practise of theists) is destructive. I have seen in my life that intolerance is most common among those with more to lose. Atheists, whose "heaven" is this realm of misery called Earth, would stand to lose all that they hold dear: hedonism, self-gratification, mind-altering substances, mood-altering drugs, recreational sex, etc. They stand to lose all of this because of the damned theists... who constantly harp about a just and all-powerful God, and morality, and self-control, and temperance, and (worst of all) judgement.

So you wonder why we can't agree? With so much at stake, to atheists, Christians don't represent an alternative point of view. No. We represent a serious threat to their existence and must be exterminated like a disease. Thus the frequent intolerance of atheists.

So, in the spirit of tolerance, and for the record, I don't hate you Mr. or Mrs. Atheist. And I don't feel threatened by you either. You are free to believe whatever you want. It is your life. ;)

-Mike
 
Hmmm. Thanks for saying Im free to believe whatever I want.:D

. We represent a serious threat to their existence and must be exterminated like a disease. Thus the frequent intolerance of atheists.
No ya dont. Havent you ever heard of the Crusades? Im wondering who started that war. Joan of Ark ring a bell? How about those damned salem witch trials? WHat about the muscleman?

And Im a agnostic.
 
Dear Teri....

Originally posted by Teri 2
Jan,
I’ve just finished reading the entire thread, and I now have a few questions to ask you.

Why are you asking questions which are out of context of my reply to Frencheez?

Love

Jan Ardena.
Click to expand...
 
"Why are you asking questions which are out of context of my reply to Frencheez? "

Because, I've got the Powah. Answer them, dillweed..... if you can, BWAHAHAHHAHA.
 
Ah, Jan,

Somehow I was pretty sure you would avoid my questions.

Cheers,
Teri
 
==============================================
CounslerCoffee wrote:
Havent you ever heard of the Crusades? Im wondering who started that war. Joan of Ark ring a bell? How about those damned salem witch trials? WHat about the muscleman?
==============================================

You atheists always drag out the Crusades, Salem, and the Inquisition... sheesh. Get over it already. Every new poster thinks he is the first one to bring up "the Crusades" as an example of how all Christians are blood-thirsty marauders, hell-bent on making the streets run red with blood. When the Crusades and Inquisition happened the Roman Catholic Church was a political entity, more than a true collection of regenerate believers. They didn't become a legitimate religious organization until the counter-reformation occurred. You'll have to study your world history.

Besides... 99% of the mass killings in history are done by non-Christians. See my post on this subject <a href="http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=135097#post135097">here</a>.

Would you say that the terrorists who carried out the 9/11 atrocities represent mainstream Islamic theology?

If you think they do then you don't know anything about mainstream Islamic theology. If you think they don't, then you can surely see that the Crusaders also do not represent mainstream Christian theology.

Therefore the tired old "Crusades" argument is hereby rendered null and void.

As for the Salem Witch trials, I'll leave you to research that subject on your own. But know this... I could trot out a dozen non-Christian atrocities for every one you can attribute to so-called Christians.

It helps to become informed, so why not do a little research instead of regurgitating old arguments that have long since been reduced to ashes.

-Mike
 
Mike:

I would blame Islam for 9/11.

But people are slaves and will be led by whatever master promises an eternity of bug eyed virgins (rather like hentai - one would expect them to dress up as schoolgirls and be raped - ah, right, that aside)

The values that were used to maintain power don't taint the Nazarene's values.
 
"You atheists always drag out the Crusades, Salem, and the Inquisition"

I haven't once heard someone mention this before here.

"Every new poster thinks he is the first one to bring up "the Crusades" as an example of how all Christians are blood-thirsty marauders"

You obviously missed the point. Atheists do not belive in god, therefore, every religion is just as wrong as the next. The belief in god is what leads people to do crazy things. If people believe they live in a whacked out world (with heaven, satan, and other counterintuitive mumbo-jumbo), then they tend to do whacked out things.

"When the Crusades and Inquisition happened the Roman Catholic Church was a political entity, more than a true collection of regenerate believers. "

I would rather call them degenerate believers. Of course the roman empire was a religious entity. It used religion to govern the people. Now, people actually believe this junk and decide to live by it, without proof.

"99% of the mass killings in history are done by non-Christians. "

First of all, those statistics can NOT be anywhere near accurate. Second, are you trying to prove that christians are the only good ones?
I can tell you one thing, WWI and II combined caused less casualties than the crusades alone.

"Would you say that the terrorists who carried out the 9/11 atrocities represent mainstream Islamic theology?"

Obvioulsy not. But what is obvious, is that religion had something to do with it. His belief in god led them to do what they did FOR GOD. In this way, his whacked out world led him to do this unbelievably whacked out terrorization.

"I could trot out a dozen non-Christian atrocities for every one you can attribute to so-called Christians. "

To you everything is about christians. Why are other religions wrong and you right?

Why did your god put the tree there if he knew that the genisites would eat from it?

"It helps to become informed, so why not do a little research instead of regurgitating old arguments that have long since been reduced to ashes."

The real argument is that you think god exists with no proof, you think your religion is better than the others, and you think that, for some stupid reason, god (the all-powerful one) needs YOU to pray.
 
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