Atheist..Please stand up

to Lady:

Don't forget to give my responses to your questions a try.
I hate to see all that effort dissappear into a black hole :)
 
Crunchy Cat,


(1) Logically explain the origin's of human& animal evolution?

There is a small problem with the question. Humans ARE animals
as much as cats and dogs are. Now keep in mind evolution is
a theory. There is lots of evidence to support it at the macro
level (and even a little to contradict it at the macro level). Micro
evolution (small changes due to environmental pressures) has
been successfully reproduced in a controlled lab environment FYI.

Now on to the good stuff (in a simplified fashion). There are a
variety of chemicals that (when combined at certain
temperatures) produce Amino acids. These amino acids have
a natural tendency to clump with each other. This part has been
reproduced in a lab environment FYI. Any complex sequence of
chemicals can literally translate into a sequence of physical
actions... consider them biological programs if you will. Now
consider (when the world was in it's infancy) that over a long
period of time one or more 'programs' arose that can reproduce. Each offspring of course would contain a slightly different
program. Those programs that could meet or exceed the
demands of their environment would continue reproducing and
those that could not would die off. Now, continue this same
process over a huge period of time in environments that are
constantly changing and you are left with the life forms (chemical
programs) that you see on earth today (humans included of
course).



** You explain the mechanics of this complex process great,however, how is is that sex interrupts a seemly productive process?




4) As far as space travel goes we can't even get out of our own solar system so why dismiss the existence of God or any other life form?

I am not making the claim that there is a God. You (and others)
are, so prove it to me (your responsibility as the claimer). Alien
life forms could be a possibility. Given enough time in the correct
environment Amino Acids may form reproducing 'programs' in
other non-Earth environments. Once again, just logic at work. In
fact Amino Acids may not be the only building blocks for adaptive
reproducing 'programs'. There may be others that we simply don't
know about. Currently people are constantly testing the
hypothesis that extra-terrestrial life exists by simply looking for it.
To my knowledge there has been no success in this area, but
people are still trying. I have not, on the other hand, seen too
many people who are trying to prove that there is a god.



** See paranormal photo (paranormal thread)

** As far as wanting to know God........well I would suggest you pray( you have nothing to lose)



(7a) Did a human being create him or herself?
We can probably do it through cloning nowadays; otherwise,
it's a process of natural selection that account for the current
state of our species.


** Even Frankenstein needed electricity.


(8a) What does a atheist expect after death?
I have no expectations. I have desires (like everyone else),
but no expectations.

** What are your desires?




(11) Science is a on going study of the universe....why?

Here are just a few reasons off the top of my head:
A) Curiosity.
B) Necessity (pennacillin for example).
C) Makes life easier and more fun.
D) Makes it easier to kill your enemies.
E) Making discoveries is very satisfying.


** The exploration of God of works



** Most people believe in God because he has proven himself to exist to the individual not just because someone told them he exist.

I have had an open and genuine invitation to 'God' to join me at
Starbucks for a Frapaccino. It's been open for years now... and
he still has stood me up. So, for someone whom he has not
proven himself to... what are they to do... just accept without
proof because someone says he exists?



** A genuine desire to make contact with God is honorable . I would suggest you start through prayer and read the works of a man by the name of William Marrion Branham, whom I believe to be the Prophet of our age, deceased now, His literature is inexpesive and available (Branham.org) You will never in your life hear a man speak like this, but then again it's not the man but the spirit within.




**Please feel free to state your thoughts on why people should accept atheism.

Nobody should accept something they don't want to. I can tell
you that my 'absence of belief' has freed my mind and I am
very happy with this state.


** To me that state sounds like bondage. Say the Christian Bible is true and there is a heaven & hell....what would it hurt to pray for salvation just in case? Most non-believers start questioning the validity of GOD on the death bed.






On a sidenote, I find it very interesting that you bring up
Evolution, the Big Bang, and various aspects of general science.
Don't you think it's possible for these things to be TRUE AND
for God to exist? I see the concept of God as a mutually exclusive
against the other concepts.

** Some people don't realize it but science only proves God.




ow, here's an extra goody that you were probably not
expecting. This is directed at all the athiests. A document called
the Septuagent (I might be spelling this wrong) exists that
specifically predicts the birth and life of Jesus Christ. The
document was said to have been written several hundred years
before Jesus Christ was born. Carbon dating was done on this
document and sure enough the paper was dated to have been
manufactured 300-400 years before Christ was born. Now,
I know there are plenty of hypothesis (Carbon dating accuracy,
the fact that the 'ink' was not tested... just the paper, etc...),
but should everything be on the level this may raise a
hypothesis that something paranormal truly did happen in
the past. Just something nice to chew on....


** Interesting
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by Frencheneesz
Lady, I beseech you! PLEASE, Please, please stop quoting someones ENTIRE post at the beggining of yours. Please?

"** The drive behind the curosity(?) the quest for knowledge. "

Yes, sure you could say god makes us be curious and that would be a possible answer. YET we have no evidence for that and there are alternatives which have evidence. The chemistry of the brain is very complex and seems to change with emotions..... Seems the chemistry explains emotions..... science explains this...

"
"** Colonize the stars?..perhaps you stick to STOP BREEDING PEOPLE!"

Stop breeding was the alternative to colonization of the stars. Maybe english class is important after all.....
Click to expand...





French,



"** Who made those cells live? "

It may be hard for you to understand, but we atheists believe that NOONE made those cells live. The fundamental laws of the universe were followed and the cells were one of the many near-infinite results. In human society we need a police system to uphold the law because humans have the possiblility and tendency to break those laws. In the universe, particles can only obey the laws, for the reason that the laws define them. Or more precisely they define the laws.
Think about the universe's laws as laws that exist in a utopia where everybody follows the laws without a doubt.




** Flawless laws put in order by whom? Out of the nothing came flawless thought. Yes, this is hard for me to understand.







"** Adaption?, you think we would could adapted to Venus?(he-he)"

Ya.... no. Actually we have no idea weather life exists or has existed on venus because we have never taken samples of the planet extensively enough to know. There is always the possibility.
Earth allowed for the creation of life yes. If predestination is real, then you could say earth was created to harbor life. As i have implied, I and other atheists do not believe in predestination.



** It wouldn't matter if life existed or not on Venus if we could just adapt. As far as I undestand Venu's atomosphere is like battery- acid.





"** I believe it went BANG not crunch,however, the power behind it"

Ok, you misread my post. A "big cruch" is a happening where all the universe contracts as a result of gravity. The result would be a very hot ball of matter that would almost immediately explode (actually gravity would suck back many millions of explosions until it finnally went BANG as you say).
The big bang is what happened after the big crunch, assuming ... well many things...

As for the power behind it, we do not know where matter came from, but it is very well known that a massive amount of matter can and will explode if under pressure. Thus the current universe can be explained very accurately except for the creation of matter.



** Perhaps the big bang is the birth of a galaxy(who knows)





"** scurrying? "

If you would bust out your dictionary, you would find scurrying is similar to scrambling. The running around (for example animals) usual implying randomness.


** Scurrying little gods? Can't we just step on them?





""** The pearly stars on a ever- changing canvass, so thoughtful and artistic? "

So just because you like the stars, you think someone had to create it? Im sure there are people that hate the stars....


** I think there were created whether I like them or not.


.
"** If this is all there is (highly depressed) "

You want to live forever huh? Well deluding youself won't help.


** I desire immortality....who says I'm deluding myself?




"** The drive behind the curosity(?) the quest for knowledge. "

Yes, sure you could say god makes us be curious and that would be a possible answer. YET we have no evidence for that and there are alternatives which have evidence. The chemistry of the brain is very complex and seems to change with emotions..... Seems the chemistry explains emotions..... science explains this...


** Mechanics, Mechanics, Mechanics...


Mabey we came from a rock(how confusion)? "

Why is it that Theists have a problem using the English Language? Muscleman says "for the thousand times" and Lady says "how confusion". ITS HOW CONFUSING! ING ING ING DAH!



** How Confusing.( He-He)



"** Colonize the stars?..perhaps you stick to STOP BREEDING PEOPLE!"

Stop breeding was the alternative to colonization of the stars. Maybe english class is important after all..... [/B][/QUOTE]

** The stars wouldn't have us.
 
Lady, you remind me of a joke I saw somewhere.

Q: How do ç¦?建的é_š laugh?

A: Hee hee.

:p
 
Last edited:
Who made those cells live

At what point do you believe that a cell becomes alive?

Does this extend to prokaryotic cells as well as eukaryotic cells?

Can we say that a mitochondrion is alive simply because it respires?
Or is (deoxy)/RNA alive simply because it reproduces?

Give your definition of Alive then maybe atheists (or scientists) can help explain the mechanics of creation / life within your parameters.
 
Lady,

<i>** Even Frankenstein needed electricity.</i>

Earth gets energy from the sun. All life on this planet relies on that energy source, ultimately - humans included.

<i>** To me that state sounds like bondage. Say the Christian Bible is true and there is a heaven & hell....what would it hurt to pray for salvation just in case?</i>

What if it isn't true? Wouldn't you be wasting your time, then?

<i>** Some people don't realize it but science only proves God.</i>

Science can't prove God. But science doesn't disprove God either.

<i>** Flawless laws put in order by whom? Out of the nothing came flawless thought. Yes, this is hard for me to understand.</i>

The laws of nature are what they are. It doesn't make sense to say that they are flawless or flawed. Take one example: "Gravity causes things to fall downwards". Is that a flawless law, or a flawed law? Perhaps some things really would be better falling upward. Who know? We're stuck with the laws we have, and we can't judge them as good or bad.

<i>** It wouldn't matter if life existed or not on Venus if we could just adapt. As far as I undestand Venu's atomosphere is like battery- acid.</i>

Life exists on Earth in all kinds of strange environments. It has adapted to them. Life exists in 200 degree water at the bottom of the oceans. It exists miles underground in the rocks. It exists in a lake buried under kilometres of ice in Antarctica. It exists in the clouds. It exists in sewerage farms. And yes, it even exists in acidic environments.

<i>** Perhaps the big bang is the birth of a galaxy(who knows)</i>

I strongly suggest you find out what you're talking about if you are really interested. The big bang was an explosion of space and time. It was much more than the birth of a galaxy.

<i>** Mechanics, Mechanics, Mechanics... </i>

You chant "mechanics" as if it is somehow a bad thing to understand our world. Is ignorance better, in your opinion? Would you rather believe in knowledge gained by hard work, trial and error, or something somebody made up one sunny afternoon, just because it seemed like a good idea at the time?

<i>** The stars wouldn't have us.</i>

One star has us already. See earlier.
 
"** To me that state sounds like bondage. Say the Christian Bible is true and there is a heaven & hell....what would it hurt to pray for salvation just in case? "

That wouldn't get you anywhere. If you don't really believe in God you won't be saved no matter how much you pray. At least thats how I understand it.
 
"** If humans evolved from monkeys than our evolution rate is faster,correct. "

Incorrect. Evolution is not discriminatory. The current bacteria is just "as evoleved" as us humans. The difference is in the ways we survive. We can say that we are intelligence while a bacteria is not, but both us and bacteria ONLY react to our environment. We may think us humans are better, but that is only an opinion.

"** At the top of your head, what is non-living that can come to life? My understanding is way limited on this. "

Right, well, abiogenisis is NOT the immediate transition from "non-living" to "living". It is a gradual process that has just as much meaning as the definition of "life". Simple molecules formed that did certain things, those things did other thing; eventually these things add up into a big mess, and some of that mess turned into processes that we consider to be living.

"** If evolution didn't start with sex what or who made sex neccesary? I don't believe sex was intended but after the fall of Eve, all women from that day on had to travil in child birth"

In science, sexual reproduction is thought to have evolved from the different evolutionary paths of two different cells that happened to exchange DNA before reproducing. Technically, men and women are really two different species.

"
** Flawless laws put in order by whom? "

I never said flawless..... you can't judge a law of nature, they are what they are, they cannot be changed.

"** It wouldn't matter if life existed or not on Venus if we could just adapt. "

No, we could not "just adapt". It would be quite impossible for life to evolve on the sun, given the plasma would have very limited bonding capabilities. By the way, plasma is matter stripped of its electrons.
For example, if you stick a chunk of dirt in the microwave, and turn the microwave on for a couple minutes, the many billions of living creatures would die. They would not adapt, the would not find a way to live, they would just die.
The reason earth is a good place for life to evolve is that the bonds that make up the molocules of a living organism work in that oh so special way that it is possible for complex entities to be formed. On a much hotter planet, silicon is thought to be able to produce life in much the same way that carbon is used on earth.

"
** Scurrying little gods? Can't we just step on them?

LOL, good idea.

Well, ya. Do you claim to have scientific proof of god?
 
I can not answer your 10 questions, and that is not the point. Point is, just because some of humanity's questions can't be answered doesn't mean we should create answers to fill the void of an answerless question. A new born baby with no knowledge of our universe what so ever has no answers to any questions, but does he not live in the same universe? In the big scale of things the human race is new born. There are questions that have yet to be asked, big ones, that may never be asked. And yet you don't care about those answers cause we haven't reached the question... But the answers are still around us and always have been. I hope you see my point. The truth has been around as long as time, we have not. Therefore truth created us, not the other way around. If you can't stand not to have answers, do you what you gotta do. I, on the other hand, have come to terms with this.... And the biggest theistic question of them all, "Why are we here?"... You can scream that question to the sky all night long... But I think it's a question that needs to be asked internally. And the answer is different for every person.
 
Hi Lady

(1) Logically explain the origin's of human& animal evolution?

There is a small problem with the question. Humans ARE animals
as much as cats and dogs are. Now keep in mind evolution is
a theory. There is lots of evidence to support it at the macro
level (and even a little to contradict it at the macro level). Micro
evolution (small changes due to environmental pressures) has
been successfully reproduced in a controlled lab environment FYI.

Now on to the good stuff (in a simplified fashion). There are a
variety of chemicals that (when combined at certain
temperatures) produce Amino acids. These amino acids have
a natural tendency to clump with each other. This part has been
reproduced in a lab environment FYI. Any complex sequence of
chemicals can literally translate into a sequence of physical
actions... consider them biological programs if you will. Now
consider (when the world was in it's infancy) that over a long
period of time one or more 'programs' arose that can reproduce. Each offspring of course would contain a slightly different
program. Those programs that could meet or exceed the
demands of their environment would continue reproducing and
those that could not would die off. Now, continue this same
process over a huge period of time in environments that are
constantly changing and you are left with the life forms (chemical
programs) that you see on earth today (humans included of
course).

** You explain the mechanics of this complex process great,however, how is is that sex interrupts a seemly productive process?

It doesn't? It just a part of the current process for some of
the species on earth. Declaring something as being 'productive'
is a human-made opinion and really does not apply here.



4) As far as space travel goes we can't even get out of our own solar system so why dismiss the existence of God or any other life form?

I am not making the claim that there is a God. You (and others)
are, so prove it to me (your responsibility as the claimer). Alien
life forms could be a possibility. Given enough time in the correct
environment Amino Acids may form reproducing 'programs' in
other non-Earth environments. Once again, just logic at work. In
fact Amino Acids may not be the only building blocks for adaptive
reproducing 'programs'. There may be others that we simply don't
know about. Currently people are constantly testing the
hypothesis that extra-terrestrial life exists by simply looking for it.
To my knowledge there has been no success in this area, but
people are still trying. I have not, on the other hand, seen too
many people who are trying to prove that there is a god.

** See paranormal photo (paranormal thread)

Sorry, I didn't find it using the search abilities of this forum (but
its possible that I mis-used it some how) :). Would you post a link
and set my expectations as to its relevance?

** As far as wanting to know God........well I would suggest you pray( you have nothing to loose) and if you want to know if Satan exist offer to sell your soul, but then again if he can keep you believing in nothing untill your death he wouldn't have to give you anything. But the moment you believe in God and salvation Satan takes notice.

I believe it was Christ who said something to the tune of 'if
you want to find me then simply put... get rid of all your selfish
behavior'. I can accept this pre-requisite and I have done it (for
most of my life actually). Still, no response. I think before I could
get to know 'God'... I have to see proof of his existance... and
so far no proof.


(7a) Did a human being create him or herself?
We can probably do it through cloning nowadays; otherwise,
it's a process of natural selection that account for the current
state of our species.

** Even Frankenstein needed electricity.

A hollywood creation? I don't see the relevance.


(8a) What does a atheist expect after death?
I have no expectations. I have desires (like everyone else),
but no expectations.

** What are your desires?

I'd like to be with my wife.


(11) Science is a on going study of the universe....why?

Here are just a few reasons off the top of my head:
A) Curiosity.
B) Necessity (pennacillin for example).
C) Makes life easier and more fun.
D) Makes it easier to kill your enemies.
E) Making discoveries is very satisfying.

** Discoveries of someone or somethings works

ooookaaaaaay...


** Most people believe in God because he has proven himself to exist to the individual not just because someone told them he exist.

I have had an open and genuine invitation to 'God' to join me at
Starbucks for a Frapaccino. It's been open for years now... and
he still has stood me up. So, for someone whom he has not
proven himself to... what are they to do... just accept without
proof because someone says he exists?

** A genuine desire to make contact with God is honorable . I would suggest you start through prayer and read the works of a man by the name of William Marrion Branham, whom I believe to be the Prophet of our age, deceased now, His literature is inexpesive and available (Branham.org) You will never in your life hear a man speak like this, but then again it's not the man but the spirit within.

Prayer? Been there done that. Nothing ever came of it. Set my
expectations on William Branham. Why would I want to read his
book? Does he have conclusive empirical evidence that God
exists?


**Please feel free to state your thoughts on why people should accept atheism.

Nobody should accept something they don't want to. I can tell
you that my 'absence of belief' has freed my mind and I am
very happy with this state.

** To me that state sounds like bondage. Say the Christian Bible is true and there is a heaven & hell....what would it hurt to pray for salvation just in case? Most non-believers start the what if on the death bed.

Bondage eh? I can predict explicitly when you will be furtile during
the month using nothing but your saliva and a cheap microscope.
Thats cheap and accurate birth control. I can force your 'time
of the month' to occur at another date using nothing but your
sense of smell... and the list goes on. I can do these things
because I don't have 'belief' (aka: acceptance without proof),
interfering with my thought process.


On a sidenote, I find it very interesting that you bring up
Evolution, the Big Bang, and various aspects of general science.
Don't you think it's possible for these things to be TRUE AND
for God to exist? I see the concept of God as a mutually exclusive
against the other concepts.

** Some people don't realize it but science only proves God.

So, then show me the proof! Scientifically even.


Thanks,

-CC
 
"and even a little to contradict it at the macro level"

I seriously doubt this. A theory is a theory for a reason. And that reason includes that it has ZERO contradictory evidence. What is this contradictory evidence you speak of?
 
People dont understand. Faith is applied in ever aspects in life. You cannot make someone believe what they dont want to believe. I dont care how much evidence you have even if they are hard facts, if they dont want to believe you, they will not believe you, its common sense, they will just lie, reject, and say "You have no proof" even though you do but they just BELIEVE its not true. Its a battle of "Whos telling the truth?" thats where it comes down to, are the atheist lying, or are the christians lying? There is no in between, either one of them is lying, or one of them are straight out ignorant, or both of them are ignorant but one of them is on a right side of being ignorant.

Atheist argue there is no God because the evidence presented doesnt impress them, even though if they are current, physical, and scientificall.

FOR NOW ON, ANYONE WHO SAYS GOD IS A MYTH, TO COUNTERACT I WOULD SAY KING HENRY, KING JAMES AND SHAKESPEARE IS A MYTH AS WELL, I DARE YOU GIVE ME PROOF, AND THAT SAME PROOF YOU WILL GIVE ME I CAN USE THE SAME FOR GOD. PERIOD. GOD IS A MYTH, AND SO IS SHAKESPEARE AND ALMOST EVERYTHING ELSE.
 
"I dont care how much evidence you have even if they are hard facts, if they dont want to believe you, they will not believe you"

You are living proof of that one...

"or one of them are straight out ignorant"

diddo.

"Atheist argue there is no God because the evidence presented doesnt impress them"

No............. There IS no evidence Therefore we cannot say god does or does not exist. Your only evidence is that intellligence MUST create Intelligence. When I asked you to prove THAT, you ignored me.

"GOD IS A MYTH, AND SO IS SHAKESPEARE AND ALMOST EVERYTHING ELSE."

No actually. We have written and verbal records of "God", we also have written and verbal records of king henry. If I ignore the fact that there is a ton more documents on King Henry than god, AND that king henry's documents are much more consistent than for god's documents, You could have one exist and not the other.
See, if someone writes two things on two different peices of stone, One is a story, and one is a record. He leaves it for 2000 years, then we get it. Both have "records", but only one is correct. This is the case with king henry, he exists but god may not.
 
muscleman

Muscleman. A few questions:

A) Has 'God' ever spoken to you?
B) How many times did he speak to you?
C) When was the last time he spoke to you (actual date)?
D) What did he tell you?
E) How did he communicate with you?

-CC
 
Re: muscleman

Originally posted by Crunchy Cat
Muscleman. A few questions:

A) Has 'God' ever spoken to you?
B) How many times did he speak to you?
C) When was the last time he spoke to you (actual date)?
D) What did he tell you?
E) How did he communicate with you?

-CC
Click to expand...

God has spoken through trillions of people, past and present. God communicate to me and the founding fathers of America through his word, the bible. Some may have mystical experience which you atheist call "Hallucination" meaning mental imagination, some may hallucinate a lion chased them, but it doesnt mean lion are myths or such act is impossible, hallucination just means "mental image" of the supernatural or not. Or u may say it is just a "Delusion" for making claims without proof, :D which basically you are calling yourself for you make a claim there is no God when the fact is no evidence supports your claim as well, therefore you are also delusional yoourself.

God speaks to me almost everyday, everytime I read the bible or remember his words in my mind and do what is good (conscience), which you say "It is just in your brain", no crap, LOL, of course its in our brain, God communicates to his people all the time, how did u expect God to send his message? Not through words but through lightning carving messages on a rock all the time, LOL, your stupid.

Theres no actual date, I always have spiritual conversation with God, it is called prayers and spiritual reading. :)

And you Frencheneez, you never give up lying do you? I have tons of proof of Good you reject, and I have not ignored all the questions you say, you however is a compulsive liar. FACT is our Intelligence created computer intelligence, though its lower intelligence, it is still intelligence. PERIOD CAN YOU READ THAT?
FACT= GOD HAVE MORE WRITTEN DOCUMENTS ABOUT HIM THE KING HENRY, In fact billions people today still write about Him and I am one of them, how many write about King Henry? Fact is the bible is a history book to billions of christians and historians, fact is there are real maps of Jerusalem, fact is Bethlehem, Jerusalem and even where Jesus was crucified still exist today.

AGAIN, YOUR RIGHT, GOD IS MYTH, AND SO IS KING HENRY, KING JAMES, AND SHAKESPEARE, ETC. PERIOD. :)
 
In fact billions people today still write about Him
Click to expand...

From a web page on world population…
6 billion mark was reached on October 12 1999
Are you claiming that at least 2-3 billion people are Christians? You’ll have to prove that one two. I think the actual total will be far less than you claim.

Once again, little facts get in the way of musclemans’ proofs, or should I say lack of them.

So what is this mania you have with trying to get someone to prove that King whatever existed? That has already been done, though your only response was to po-po the link. What is the matter? No proof for your stance? No ability to find that which supports your stance? As near as I can tell, a link is something that interferes with your rant. And rant is all it is…
 
A nice ad Populum argument, although it is no more fallacious than his others.
There are 2.1 billion christians. Incl. cathys, mormons etc.

Also there are 1 billion hindus and 1 billion agnostic/ atheist / humanists. And by the year 2050 Islam will be the largest religious group. So we can generate equally bad arguments to cancel out muscleman's BS arguments. It seems that 4 billion of earth's population has not been reached by Jesus. Therefore he doesn't exist. Simple.

And there haven't been a trillion people yet.

Muscleman's king thing is also bullshit. He has proven that we can't believe in King Henry, rather than that we can believe in a God. This is a fallacious appeal to consequences. We shouldn't believe in God just because we want to believe in King Henry.
 
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