Are all soldiers like the Nazis?

WillNever said:
Sacrificing yourself for an unworthy cause isn't honorable at all. It's insanity.

The troops are not suddenly stripped of free will and the ability to make difficult decisions once they sign their contracts. They always have a choice. It's not a good choice, but it's still a choice. Right now it is the choice between spilling the blood of human beings who never once harmed you in any way whatsoever simply because you were ordered to, or putting an end to your violent lifestyle career choice and damaging your reputation in the eyes of close-minded warbots. Exactly which choice is noble and which choice is evil, and which path most of the so-called "honorable troops" end up going down, I will leave as an exercise for everyone here to figure out.

In the mean time, our troops today aren't self-sacrificing for any sort of noble cause. And if we're talking about the American military and Iraq again, then what they're doing is actually tearing the place up and obliterating the Iraqi's infrastructure even worse than ever before. There are no "humanitarian reasons" involved in the military either. That song and dance has been played way too many times in order to justify this war which is pulverizing our OWN country into political and economic pebbles. If any of that were true, then where was the USA during the tyrannical reign of Idi Amin during the 1970's..? Where was the USA during the incomprehensible butchery between the tribes of Rwanda and Zaire during the 1980's and early 1990's..? Where is the USA in Dharfur..? Why aren't we in Ghana, preventing them from committing routine atrocities upon the vaginas of screaming little girls (genital infibulation without anesthesia -- look it up). Why aren't we in Thailand, rescuing thousands and thousands of very young women from the clutches of pimps and sex slave traders..? I don't think I need to list anymore human rights abuses.... it's too horrible to think about.

The reason we have never invaded any of those countries -- regions where there have been a long history of FAR worse atrocities and slaughter than in Iraq-- is because their major exports are dates, figs and venereal disease. No profits to be made from saving those poor human beings -- so we've never bothered to rescue them, and the horror continues unabated in those places to this very day. That is the sick, unvarnished truth. Our leaders are twisted, profiteering liars, our military ( along with the volunteer army) are unintelligent, unwitting pawns who no longer deserve support, and there is no reason to believe otherwise.

Yo... Echo3Romeo... I'm talking to you. How does it feel being exploited by a war machine for hire and getting a fat dick plunged into your mouth? Do you enjoy fat dicks in your mouth? No...? Well, that's what happens when you join up. Maybe it's time for a career switch.
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You see I have pointed out my point of view concerning these blanket statements about all wars and soldiers. I simply disagree with you.
 
S.A.M. said:
I think all it would take is [like the slaves and the untouchables] for the foot soldiers to refuse to participate in their own diminishment as people.

Mindless obedience doesn't lead to any good place for anyone.
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But they won't. Not by your command anyway. Wouldn't it be mindless obedience to take Sam's word as to the proper behaviour and morality of someone who serves their country? I mean its not as if you have a care for the life of citizens from the west at heart.
 
True, its a decision they have to make on their own. Its their own lives at stake.

You can cheer them on, glorifying their institutionalisation into violence which destroys their lives and the lives of many many others, we all stand to profit from it in one way or another.

But there are many alternatives to violence. Unfortunately, while there is free labour, people generally take it too much for granted to look elsewhere for solutions.
 
S.A.M. said:
True, its a decision they have to make on their own. Its their own lives at stake.

You can cheer them on, glorifying their institutionalisation into violence which destroys their lives and the lives of many many others, we all stand to profit from it in one way or another.

But there are many alternatives to violence. Unfortunately, while there is free labour, people generally take it too much for granted to look elsewhere for solutions.
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Or the lives of the other...I mean if you consider the numbers.

You will stand to profit? .:D

I didn't nor would not expect any less from you.

What are the alternatives you have in mind?
 
Just look at how other social institutions dependent on mindless institutionalised obedience were dissolved. Some of them were more profitable than the industry of murder.
 
S.A.M. said:
Just look at how other social institutions dependent on mindless institutionalised obedience were dissolved. Some of them were more profitable than the industry of murder.
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Again I asked you this:

What are the alternatives you have in mind?

Just answer the question.
 
I like the Chinese model of mutual profitability. ie healthy societies progress and create mutually beneficial societies. A policy of non-interference in political and religious ideologies is also required.

A $10 billion low cost loan was announced on November 9, 2009, double the $5 billion loan announced and implemented at the 2006 Beijing Summit. A 1 billion U.S. dollar special loan for small and medium-sized African businesses was also established. China also announced eight new policy measures aimed at strengthening relations with Africa were "more focused on improving people's livelihoods".[7] Wen announced that China will write off the debt of some of the poorest African nations. He said China will construct 100 new clean-energy projects on the continent covering solar power, bio-gas and small hydro-power and gradually lower customs duties on 95 percent of products from African states with which it has diplomatic ties. He also stated that China would undertake 100 joint demonstration projects on scientific and technological research, receive 100 African postdoctoral fellows to conduct scientific research in China and assist them in going back and serving their home countries. The number of agricultural technology demonstration centers built by China in Africa will be increased to 20, 50 agricultural technology teams would be sent to Africa and 2,000 agricultural technology personnel would be trained for Africa, in order to help strengthen Africa's ability to ensure food security.

China also will provide medical equipment and anti-malaria materials worth 500 million yuan to the 30 hospitals and 30 malaria prevention and treatment centers built by China and train 3,000 doctors and nurses for Africa. Wen further stated that China will build 50 China–Africa friendship schools and train 1,500 school principals and teachers for African countries and increase the number of Chinese government scholarships to Africa to 5,500 by 2012. China will also train a total of 20,000 professionals of various fields for Africa over the next three years.[8]

The head of the United Nations food agency, World Food Programme, Executive Director Josette Sheeran praised the forum's role in food security, agriculture and infrastructure in Africa.[9
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A definite improvement over US policies. They want to create a society that will be a market for their goods over the next fifty years.
 
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S.A.M. said:
Just look at how other social institutions dependent on mindless institutionalised obedience were dissolved. Some of them were more profitable than the industry of murder.
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Like religion. Another dangerous and often psychopathic phenomenon. Is it any wonder that war and religion are -- even today -- so closely linked? Where you find one, you're almost sure to find the other being taken to an equally lethal extreme.

I think the lesson here is clear: mindless obedience toward ANY institution sucks dripping dead donkey dicks, and it's high time that We the People move far and away from that paleolithic crappola. I know one day it will happen. It's just too bad it won't happen in my lifetime.
 
S.A.M. said:
I like the Chinese model of mutual profitability. ie healthy societies progress and create mutually beneficial societies. A policy of non-interference in political and religious ideologies is also required.
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Which healthy societies are these that the Chinese have created? Mind you, you are veering off completely from what are the alternatives for war. I mean look at the Chinese:

China has been accused by two US-based human rights groups of conducting a
"crushing campaign of religious repression" against Muslim Uighurs.
It is being done in the name of anti-separatism and counter-terrorism, says a joint report by Human Rights Watch and Human Rights in China.

It is said to be taking place in the western Xinjiang region, where more than half the population is Uighur.

China has denied that it suppresses Islam in Xinjiang.

It says it only wants to stop the forces of separatism, terrorism and religious extremism in the region, which Uighur separatists call East Turkestan.

Detentions and executions

The report accuses China of "opportunistically using the post-11 September environment to make the outrageous claim that individuals disseminating peaceful religious and cultural messages in Xinjiang are terrorists who have simply changed tactics".


CHINA'S UIGHURS

Ethnically Turkic Muslims, mainly in Xinjiang

Made bid for independent state in 1940s

Sporadic violence in Xinjiang since 1991

Uighurs worried about Chinese immigration and erosion of traditional culture

The authors of the report say it is based on previously undisclosed Communist

Party and Chinese government documents, local regulations, press reports and local interviews.

The report says the systematic repression of religion in Xinjiang was continuing as "a matter of considered state policy".

Such repression ranges from vetting imams and closing mosques to executions and the detention of thousands of people every year, it claims.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4435135.stm

I'm not sure they are even on your side:shrug:
 
I don't agree with all Chinese policies. I like what they have done with Tibetan society and I like what they are doing with African ones. Their goals are long term and more responsible and aimed at improving the quality of life of all people. Its a far cry from weaponising and installing dictators and starving people into debt.

We have seen what the American model has achieved, a lot of hot air and mountains of collateral damages. So far, Tibet is looking better than Afghanistan.
 
S.A.M. said:
I like the Chinese model of mutual profitability. ie healthy societies progress and create mutually beneficial societies. A policy of non-interference in political and religious ideologies is also required.



A definite improvement over US policies.
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Will they also be exporting sewage-containing toothpaste, poisoned pet food, poisoned children's toys, candy that contains broken glass and shards of metal, frozen food that contains human waste and shredded cardboard, and a wide range of products that were manufactured using what amounts to a virtual slave labor force (putting thousands and thousands of Americans out of work as a result)? And folks let's not forget the allegations of China exporting their own people as sex slaves to North Korea, through the vast underground network of human trafficking which sadly still exists in this world today. It has further been alleged that the Chinese are providing human organs for transplants on the world market... organs that were forcibly removed from their own ALIVE AND HEALTHY people.

I'd consider those things (and more) to qualify as threatening, not mutually beneficial.

I'm just going to call everyone's attention to the fact that in an overall sense, the Chinese are more of a direct threat to you and to your way of life than Iraq is. We aren't at war with them, however. And yet... all a lot of people around here seem to do is talk about how evil the Iraqis are, whilst ignoring the larger threat imposed by those little commie fucks in China. People ought to stop pretending that human rights has anything to do with the military.
 
If we have to choose between war and poor quality cheap products [alongwith trained educators, doctors and the luxury of a full stomach] guess which one looks better? The Chinese model is not perfect, nothing is, but it beats destroying entire countries and killing millions then running home leaving the mess for other people.
 
S.A.M. said:
I don't agree with all Chinese policies. I like what they have done with Tibetan society and I like what they are doing with African ones. Their goals are long term and more responsible and aimed at improving the quality of life of all people. Its a far cry from weaponising and installing dictators and starving people into debt.

We have seen what the American model has achieved, a lot of hot air and mountains of collateral damages. So far, Tibet is looking better than Afghanistan.
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Good I just hope you like what they do with yours.

I'm all for the Chinese raping you people than US tax dollars being mindlessly spent on ridiculous efforts like trying to build a democracy where it obviously doesn't belong.

I say hey to the Chinese! They are more like americans than you think. I know. I've lived there.
 
Possibly they are also as infected by Western civilisation as India is. Nevertheless, at the moment, they are the lesser evil.
 
i think the point is that detente and aid go further in promulgating peace and goodwill over intimidation and warfare

plus it is a whole lot cheaper
 
Your brethren here think differently:

"Since Sunday, Uighur Muslims have clashed with groups of Han Chinese and Chinese security forces in the Xinjiang capital, Urumqi.

Though Chinese officials say 156 people - mostly ethnic Han Chinese - died in Sunday's violence, Uighur groups say many more died and that most of the dead were Uighurs. On Tuesday about 200 Uighur women faced off against riot police to appeal for more than 1,400 people arrested over Sunday's violence to be freed. Later hundreds of Han Chinese marched through the streets of Urumqi smashing shops and stalls belonging to Uighurs.

Since April 1996 some 57,000 Uighur Muslims had been arrested and about 1,700 of them executed. The Chinese government also stepped up a crackdown on ‘unauthorised’ religious activity. China's summary execution of 30 Uighur in February 1997 was particularly barbaric.

Such barbarism never quelled the spirit of the Muslims of China. They continued defiantly to identify themselves as Muslims, despite the
killings and despite the public burning and banning of the Qur'an. This
defiance is deeply rooted in their Islamic heritage.

http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resourc...-riots-and-chinas-persecution-of-muslims.html

Perhaps its all just this :soapbox:
 
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