Are all soldiers like the Nazis?

[S.A.M.]

Like defending loss of life, loss of land or territory, ideals and values that are being threatened.

Well they are not unthinking pawns, the fact that you say that shows you don't know many if any.

They are unthinking pawns. I have yet to see any problem that war has solved. Killing people in huge numbers to defend "life", occupying to defend land, incarceration, murder and torture to protect ideals.

What makes this pass for rational thinking?

If I did any of this to anyone in my neighborhood, would it pass a court of law?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

The second World War was the last *necessary* war when our sovereignty was potentially under threat and we were attacked by the Japanese. All American wars after that time were against individuals who had never done a single bad thing to us and who posed no threat to us in any way whatsoever. Our country was not in peril, and our "freedom" didn't need defending. That's a self-serving rationalization used by greedy warbots.

In the mean time, anyone who signs up for military service TODAY, for any reason whatsoever, is an accomplice to murder. That's a fact. People who never once did a single thing to harm us are being killed over in Iraq by greedy foreign invaders. By signing up for military service, you are adding yourself to that pool of greedy foreign invaders, and furthering their cause. That's not heroic... that's SICK. How much is a career worth to you in gallons of human blood?

So you would demolish the reserves and all military trained personnel? As I have said my problem is not the with the men and women who serve but the wisdom of entering certain wars. I think we should fight the war, I just think we should fight it differently.

 

[RickyH]

They are unthinking pawns. I have yet to see any problem that war has solved. Killing people in huge numbers to defend "life", occupying to defend land, incarceration, murder and torture to protect ideals.

What makes this pass for rational thinking?

If I did any of this to anyone in my neighborhood, would it pass a court of law?

Do you think it's possible to live in a perfect world?

 

[Randwolf]

No I'm just seeing more circles within circles. Would a soldier disobey a direct order to bomb a location where he has a relative?

You know this answer as well as I do. Is India's military so different? If the majority of people in a "location" (say... Boise, Idaho, USA) are American citizens, than that might be a time to invoke the "illegal" orders - or it might not, depending on the circumstances.

On the other hand, if there was a singular, or even a familial group of people living in this territory for some bizarre reason, than yes --- bombs away --- SAM, it truly sucks, but there is going to be collateral damage...

Need I rephrase my original question, what would you do for your immediate family? Is any collateral damage allowed? Be careful, tip toe around this issue, because I assure you I am capable of phrasing the question in a way that would cause you to answer "yes", civilian / collateral kills are acceptable...

 

[S.A.M.]

Do you think it's possible to live in a perfect world?

You tell me. If you serve as a soldier, is it okay for your family to pay for your deeds?

Would it be acceptable to you if they were collateral damages?

Or do you reserve the right to defense for yourself alone?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

They are unthinking pawns. I have yet to see any problem that war has solved. Killing people in huge numbers to defend "life", occupying to defend land, incarceration, murder and torture to protect ideals.

What makes this pass for rational thinking?

If I did any of this to anyone in my neighborhood, would it pass a court of law?

You seem to know too little of soldiers to have anything but an 'off the cuff' opinion. Suit yourself. It doesn't make any of your assertions true. I do find it interesting that you take so much umbrage at foreign forces killing innocent civilians but seem to never rant about the amount of civilians that are dying by the hands of their own brethren. Ah, Oh well!

It solved WW1 and 2 and it actually has solved many a border issue throughout human history. I'm sure you can go through the archives and fine examples of where 'war' came to the benefit of the people of your own religion. To say that war is unnecessary gives no way out as to how to avoid it all together...which I think would be your point. Is that the point Sam?

The examples you give above don't amount to much since none of them are in context so they are irrelevant to your OP. Which of course is that ALL soldiers are 'nazis'.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

You tell me. If you serve as a soldier, is it okay for your family to pay for your deeds?

Would it be acceptable to you if they were collateral damages?

Or do you reserve the right to defense for yourself alone?

Ask an Israeli or a Palestinian. They sacrifice their sons and daughters day and night for the protection of the whole.

 

[S.A.M.]

WWI and WWII were because of foot soldiers who aimlessly obeyed a handful of men. They killed millions upon millions of noncombatants.

Thats not a solution, thats a massacre.

Ask an Israeli or a Palestinian. They sacrifice their sons and daughters day and night for the protection of the whole.

I just watched Mothers. Too bad more people don't refuse to sacrifice their children.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j8vg74HiKE

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

WWI and WWII were because of foot soldiers who aimlessly obeyed a handful of men. They killed millions upon millions of noncombatants.

Thats not a solution, thats a massacre.

Actually Sam they killed mostly combatants and I am proud of their accomplishment. Sure innocent people died but that is the nature of war unless you can come up with something different. What is your solution to the end of war?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

I just watched Mothers. Too bad more people don't refuse to sacrifice their children.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j8vg74HiKE

Indeed. It might mean the only chance of survival for their people. I mean that they refrain from all forms of aggression and violent resistance. Is that what you mean?

 

[WillNever]

So you would demolish the reserves and all military trained personnel? As I have said my problem is not the with the men and women who serve but the wisdom of entering certain wars. I think we should fight the war, I just think we should fight it differently.

The problem indeed lies with the people fighting the war. They're the ones who are the most direct party to the killing. The buck truly stops with them and they do nothing.

Almost no one in the military has saved a life. Tons of them have taken lives, however. And for the ones who have done neither: all they've really done for the past few years of their lives is make themselves available to engage in unprovoked violence in a foreign land. They're enablers, which is why I say EVERYONE in the military is either a murderer or an accomplice to murder. Someone brought up those who are in the military who are in it for college money. That is by design, and the military loves dupes like that. It's called "deliberately limiting your choices." How else do you think an all-volunteer military could possibly survive... especially during wartime..?

Most who sign up for the military are career-minded mercenaries who joined up in order to advance their own ambitions. That's very sad... but it's also a testament to the successful marketing scheme that has been put into place by the military. "The skills you need to succeed in life" is now the tagline of every army promo on the television, and all of them set in a 3 yard wide scratbag trailer, the kid flashing his colorful brochure to his toiled parents, all wearing the puerto rican sleeveless shirts. That's what our military has degenerated into... and it's very disheartening to compare the motives of today's troops to the motives of the TRUE patriots who fought in the American revolution. Indeed, today''s military forces are a mere shadow of a much more noble legacy.

Of course everyone in this thread who has signed up for military service will be outraged by my words. That's because, if what I said is true (and it is), it means that they have been WASTING THEIR LIVES. I still, however, correctly defined what the military is all about. When you join the American military today, you are in most cases agreeing to kill people who never once did a single bad thing to harm you or your country. That's not debateable. That's what's REALLY going on, and it's not a matter of opinion.

 

[S.A.M.]

Actually Sam they killed mostly combatants and I am proud of their accomplishment. Sure innocent people died but that is the nature of war unless you can come up with something different.

Yeah, how many innocent people would have died if the soldiers had refused to fight? What were they fighting for? The Russians and Americans fought on the same side and then spent the next fifty years creating more reasons to make war.

Again, no politician was in the field. It was the mindless pawns marching to the drumbeats.

What is your solution to the end of war?

Politicians want war, let them put on the gloves and get in the ring, we'll take popcorn and watch.

The problem indeed lies with the people fighting the war. They're the ones who are the most direct party to the killing. The buck truly stops with them and they do nothing.

Exactly. You can't blame the politicians when you are the one with the finger on the detonator. Where is YOUR brain?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Yeah, how many innocent people would have died if the soldiers had refused to fight? What were they fighting for? The Russians and Americans fought on the same side and then spent the next fifty years creating more reasons to make war.

Again, no politician was in the field. It was the mindless pawns marching to the drumbeats.



Exactly. You can't blame the politicians when you are the one with the finger on the detonator. Where is YOUR brain?

Many *just ask the jews*.

Freedom from tyranny, intolerance and fascism.

The fact that the Americans and Russians who were once allies turned into cold war enemies has nothing to do with the argument that you are trying to make (as mercurial as it is).

No politicians were not in the field Sam, they had better men for that.

Winston Churchill:

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

General Patton:

A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.

Roosevelt:

"There is nothing I love as much as a good fight".

 

[Dywyddyr]

Almost no one in the military has saved a life.

Wrong, and ignorantly so.

Of course everyone in this thread who has signed up for military service will be outraged by my words. That's because, if what I said is true (and it is)

No it isn't.

I still, however, correctly defined what the military is all about.

No you haven't.

When you join the American military today, you are in most cases agreeing to kill people who never once did a single bad thing to harm you or your country. That's not debateable.

Of course it's debatable, since you're wrong.
If you bother checking most militaries swear to defend the country/ government/ whatever of their nationality.
In other words they sign up to DEFEND, not go off and "kill people who never once did a single bad thing".

That's what's REALLY going on, and it's not a matter of opinion.

Apparently it is since all you've done is give your (uninformed) opinion.

 

[S.A.M.]

Many *just ask the jews*.

Sans all the mindless foot soldiers who did his bidding, how many Jews do you think Hitler could have killed by himself?

 

[WillNever]

A whole lotta nonsense busted up into chunks.

QUOTE:

"Try writing original responses to my posts instead of riding on the coattails of each of my sentences and interjecting. It's uncreative, unintellectual, and generally it is a coping mechanism for those who can't put forth a complete argument on their own. Such behavior is the hallmark of people who are interested in non-contributively attacking out of context. The main point of the argument is usually lost by the one who initiates the pattern and the post becomes a gaggle of different discussions going in completely different directions and overall the topic loses all coherency. From this point onward, I will reply only to posts that can put forth a complete argument that stands on the merits of the words contained in its OWN post, without the parasitic posting method described above. Henceforth, this shall be WillNever's Law."

Author: WillNever

If you wish not to follow WillNever's Law, then my conversation with you will end. It's nothing personal.

 

[RickyH]

You tell me. If you serve as a soldier, is it okay for your family to pay for your deeds?

Would it be acceptable to you if they were collateral damages?

Or do you reserve the right to defense for yourself alone?

You're almost as good as a lawyer at avoiding questions. Do you think it's possible to live in a perfect world?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Sans all the mindless foot soldiers who did his bidding, how many Jews do you think Hitler could have killed by himself?

Sam you are still not answering! What is the solution to the problem? As I listed above there were some war heros and soldiers who had their own ideas and hell it damn well seemed to work.

 

[Echo3Romeo]

What I did was to correctly define what the military is all about. The world is filled with sick barbarians, and that includes Americans. Obviously, not having an army in the face of that reality would be suicide. That does not legitimize the military however, nor does it redefine military service as something "noble."

Out of curiousity, what has your personal exposure to military culture involved? You seem to carry some deep and powerful emotions about it, and your arguments are likewise emotionally grounded. Perhaps if you were to explain why you feel so strongly this way it would help the rest of us understand where all this rage is coming from.

 

[S.A.M.]

Sam you are still not answering! What is the solution to the problem? As I listed above there were some war heros and soldiers who had their own ideas and hell it damn well seemed to work.

Not for the tens of millions who died. I gave a solution. If politicians want a war, let them get into a ring.

This is not a solution, this is the problem