Are all discussions of God speculative nonsense?
- Thread starter Greatest I am
- Start date
ok fine..its not badgering i am after..its explanations..
why 'no'?
why speculative nonsense?
kx000
Valued Senior Member
Because we can't know of God. He doesn't aply to the rules of life. As he created science, he can defy it.
um..i would argue that we can never 'know' (empirical) God, but we can 'know'(be familiar with) God,
but either way does not address your statement of 'know of God', i believe we can know of God, just like one can know of pink elephants..
how so?
see this is the one i cannot get behind..i mean why would he create a system that he would have to defy?
i argue 'as he created science,he can manipulate it' (within its own means)
Making stuff up again?
I didn't say that.
Not me, I never believed in god.
kx000
Valued Senior Member
And thats your choice
I was never sure, but I was willing to entertain the possibility. The problem is what if you need a god and it isn't there? At what point do you realize that your prayers accomplish nothing?
As an empiricist, I do not see the need for believing in a god. There is no natural phenomenon which makes me invoke a god as the explanation, and though a god could exist, he could exist in the same manner as the tooth fairy can exist..in other words, it isn't convincing me.
Besides, organized religion is a tool of the capitalist class to exploit the lower classes.
Besides, organized religion is a tool of the capitalist class to exploit the lower classes.
the most believable prayer, it gets answered alot. most times it is not the answer we want,but it is an answer none the less..
God teach me patience.
spider, even if you don't believe in god, it's entirely unreasonable to believe that your thoughts and desires accomplish nothing.
beyond that, when you really want something, the demand requires authority, and that requires faith.
The wryly pessimistic novelist Kurt Vonnegut (born 1922, died 2007) came from "old school" atheism; for, contrary to the conceit of post-modern whippersnappers, atheism is not something extremely recent and under seige from "fundies" all around them and under their beds. It actually goes back quite a long time in the modern West -- a good two hundred years in terms of developing a broad culture (with each passing generation growing exponentially).
In this regard, Vonnegut once quipped:
I learned atheism on my mother's knee.
P.S.:
Vonnegut was an American, born in the Midwest -- Indiana. His parents were third-generation German-Americans. His father attended M.I.T. and became a professional architect; his grandfather, less academic and intellectual, founded a successful hardware company in Indianapolis. Growing up in the Midwest, and then moving to go to school in New York, in America in the late 30s and 40s and (after WW2) the 50s, as an atheist not only did not cripple him because of a religiously evil America -- he blossomed into quite a successful and lucrative career as an English teacher and novelist and eventual multi-millionaire, with scads of fans and admirers around the world, making his millions on writing about how nihilism, pessimism and atheism are the absolute truth.
In this regard, Vonnegut once quipped:
I learned atheism on my mother's knee.
P.S.:
Vonnegut was an American, born in the Midwest -- Indiana. His parents were third-generation German-Americans. His father attended M.I.T. and became a professional architect; his grandfather, less academic and intellectual, founded a successful hardware company in Indianapolis. Growing up in the Midwest, and then moving to go to school in New York, in America in the late 30s and 40s and (after WW2) the 50s, as an atheist not only did not cripple him because of a religiously evil America -- he blossomed into quite a successful and lucrative career as an English teacher and novelist and eventual multi-millionaire, with scads of fans and admirers around the world, making his millions on writing about how nihilism, pessimism and atheism are the absolute truth.
Greatest I am
Valued Senior Member
In moral discussions, yes, I agree.
Not always though. Like genocide. many theist think it good, as God is said to have used it. For the rest of us, genocide is always wrong.
In questions of existence and any certainty of truth in whatever else is discussed, no.
Regards
DL
Greatest I am
Valued Senior Member
??
If you cannot know of God as you say, how can you know that he doesn't apply to the rules of life?
How can you know he created science.
How can you know that he can defy the laws of nature and physics?
Looks like you are contradicting yourself.
Regards
DL
You don't feel any qualms over the genocide you commit with every breath you take?
kx000
Valued Senior Member
I know he created everything, so he can do what he wants.
That's just a way to rationalize the fact that your prayer was not answered. God lets all sorts of evil things happen, so if he exists, he's not worthy or worship. But it's far more logical to conclude that there is no difference between his presence and his absence.
I think it's reasonable. Thoughts and wishes exist only in your head, which is no miracle at all.
How do you know?