An approach to spirituality without God

[Bishadi]

I know, I said can not prove it, and I said that because of that we should only base our analysis on what we can understand.

i was a wee bit pointed

and did not catch my error until later (but i will live with it)

what is that concept; of the 'sons' life in another dimension

i am not trying to discount, i wish to learn and apply what can be understood

remember, i enjoy the esoteric as well always try and be objective

let her rip!

 

[yasmin]

i was a wee bit pointed

and did not catch my error until later (but i will live with it)

what is that concept; of the 'sons' life in another dimension

i am not trying to discount, i wish to learn and apply what can be understood

remember, i enjoy the esoteric as well always try and be objective

let her rip!

Yes, that should be the attitude of everybody.

I believe in many more things beyond my statements in these forums but I do not base my arguments on them because there are only beliefs and I do not have a complete understanding. I was just trying to keep up that as a possibility to help not to give up hope completelly.

I think being too cynical about these subjects that nobody can prove or disprove has more elements of cruelty and lack of empathy and than of objectivity. If unable to prove either one of the possibilities, why choosing the hopeless option, the most painful view of life???

 

[(Q)]

I believe in many more things beyond my statements in these forums but I do not base my arguments on them because there are only beliefs and I do not have a complete understanding.

So, based on that, you must also believe in unicorns, leprechauns, purple dragons, etc. If not, why not?

 

[Bishadi]

Yes, that should be the attitude of everybody.

I believe in many more things beyond my statements in these forums but I do not base my arguments on them because there are only beliefs and I do not have a complete understanding. I was just trying to keep up that as a possibility to help not to give up hope completelly.

I think being too cynical about these subjects that nobody can prove or disprove has more elements of cruelty and lack of empathy and than of objectivity. If unable to prove either one of the possibilities, why choosing the hopeless option, the most painful view of life???

the humility of a teacher....... cool stuff!


the reason to seek, share and run thru the trials and errors is to evolve (learn)

and then to have a bunch of humble teachers working in unison for that purpose to learn (evolve) then what good is worked thru can be left for the next generations, to pick up from.

i consider it "carrying your brick" (to the pyramid of life)

as you suggest you wish not to give up your 'hope', then please remove the 'u' and think about the cutest little face you ever saw of the next generation and put that face as your 'hope' (please)

take a chance at changing your whole outlook; for them

and keep up the rule (to be fair, across the board)

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."


i would not ask any to 'believe' but to trust themselves to be capable of knowing

then it is real easy to give to the next generations, knowing; "they WILL be better than I", or we all failed them!

 

[yasmin]

So, based on that, you must also believe in unicorns, leprechauns, purple dragons, etc. If not, why not?

When it comes to give comfort to someone who has lost a loved one, I believe being eager to crushing all hope is a sign of cruelty and lack of empathy.

If a child is dying of cancer and wants to believe that a purple dragon will come and cure him, I can assure you I will insist on him to continue believing on it and reject any interference from any speudo intellectual that insists on the contrary.

 

[yasmin]

To bishadi

Thank you very much for your thoughts and words! Really inspirational.

 

[spidergoat]

Disbelieving in God is of course a prerequisite for any kind of spiritual practice. The metaphor of God is too limiting to contain the vastness and complexity of the universe.

 

[yasmin]

Disbelieving in God is of course a prerequisite for any kind of spiritual practice. The metaphor of God is too limiting to contain the vastness and complexity of the universe.

Interesting thought! so you think that religions somehow limit spirituality? if so would this be related to the limitations of having to restrict the intellect to whatever is written on a sacred book??

 

[spidergoat]

That is their purpose. They place a protective shell around transcendental ideas, like a bandage, so they don't get out. Human consciousness is a similar thing, like a shell. Our goal is to see beyond this.

 

[yasmin]

That is their purpose. They place a protective shell around transcendental ideas, like a bandage, so they don't get out. Human consciousness is a similar thing, like a shell. Our goal is to see beyond this.

And the purpose of these limitations imposed by religions is to have control over their followers?

I completelly our goal is to see beyond those limitations.

 

[spidergoat]

It's not just exploitive, it's self-defensive. Religious people themselves seek to define and contain the transcendental experience. It is an effect of trying to symbolize it for propagation, to simplify it for common consumption.

 

[yasmin]

It's not just exploitive, it's self-defensive. Religious people themselves seek to define and contain the transcendental experience. It is an effect of trying to symbolize it for propagation, to simplify it for common consumption.

I see your point, interesting. I also read a long time ago that it was a time when it was a group among christians who believed in reincarnation, but it was forbiden by the religious authorities then.
I think the name of this group was :Rosacruces (sorry for Spanish I do not know the name in English). They were abolished even though Jesus' resurrection after he was crucified could have been interpreted as reincarnation. Apparently the idea was that reincarnation gives power of spiritual development to each individual, is a personal journey where religious authorities have little to do. Organized religions instead can excert control over their followers.

 

[spidergoat]

I don't think it started so insidiously. Churches didn't want to exert control over people, but whenever there is a unified message required, as with any kind of institution, the message becomes self-defeating in that it makes people dependent on you as the informing party. You then attain a monopoly on spiritual practice, and that power degenerates into the power to control.

 

[yasmin]

I don't think it started so insidiously. Churches didn't want to exert control over people, but whenever there is a unified message required, as with any kind of institution, the message becomes self-defeating in that it makes people dependent on you as the informing party. You then attain a monopoly on spiritual practice, and that power degenerates into the power to control.

You may be right, I do not know much about these things...

 

[Bishadi]

Spider,

sad realities.

So, no church, just knowledge. Perhaps grounded to nature, reality and objectively defined and equal to all.

be like teaching the ABC's and 1,2,3's in which the math and experience, can be conveyed into words that are O-tay with existence itself (mother nature or god if ya like)

Basically using the term God would be like calling the community of all (mankind) existance "God" or Mother Dear.

Why?

I say submit by what you do, not acting all sweet and innocent.

we rocks that can roll?

perhaps time to be a rollllllllllllllllling righter

 

[spidergoat]

Translation?

 

[earth]

I don't think it started so insidiously. Churches didn't want to exert control over people, but whenever there is a unified message required, as with any kind of institution, the message becomes self-defeating in that it makes people dependent on you as the informing party. You then attain a monopoly on spiritual practice, and that power degenerates into the power to control.

I think what you're describing is a plan to control. This power to control the masses didn't just happen or degenerate into controlling power. The message of Jesus to convert the world is an attempt to take over with him sitting at the head.

 

[mike47]

I do not see a real spirituality without believing in a creator .

 

[spidergoat]

People that want to control will use whatever excuse they can find. The monopoly on spiritual authority is just one means among many. I'm not as cynical as you in that I think it's beginnings are usually innocent. Instead of going to church, we should be fasting in the desert (or some other form of seeking).

 

[earth]

People that want to control will use whatever excuse they can find. The monopoly on spiritual authority is just one means among many. I'm not as cynical as you in that I think it's beginnings are usually innocent. Instead of going to church, we should be fasting in the desert (or some other form of seeking).

The book of revelations speaks of Jesus and says every knee will bow and every tongue will swear allegiance.

There are many passages in the New Testament placing Jesus as the ruling authority or power over the whole earth and consummated with his supposed resurrection.