After rape memory pill question

[Bells]

To all of you who think that a woman's dress or how she acts (flirts, gets drunk, etc) should factor into why she was raped, I have something to ask.

What can she do to not be raped?

Not wear skimpy clothing? Ok fair enough. Force women to cover up from head to toe. Again, will this lessen the chances of her being raped? Can you be 100% sure? After all, if you are going to base this argument on the morality of the victim instead of that of the rapist, you need to be sure.. 100% sure in fact. Now you need to also consider the fact that women in societies where they are forced to cover up are also raped. And also the fact that the majority of rapists know their victims, sometimes they are related or married to them. So how will you tell her to protect herself or prevent herself from being raped now? Because no matter what she wears, she can still be raped. Baron's analogy with the bank and the bikini is hilarious actually. Do any of you think that to make the money look appealing, the bank would actually have to place a bikini over it? Or is it the object... the money.. that is appealing? Hmmm now here's an idea.


Maybe it is not the dress of the woman but the woman herself who is appealing to the rapist. Gee, who'd have thought.


Now lets say we tell her to never go out alone or place herself in a situation of danger and 'temptation'. Again, fair assumption. But then we need to factor in the fact that the majority of cases, the victim knows the rapist and in many instances, the rapist is either a spouse, relative or trusted friend. Hmmm... that kind of blows that out of the window doesn't it? So should we tell the wife to always have another adult present just in case her husband decides to rape her? How about one who is raped by a relative or friend. Should we tell the woman to never be alone with anyone she knows just in case? Hardly practicle or even doable to be honest.


What about telling her to not get drunk or do drugs. Ok, a fair and good thought. So who here would be willing to pass a law denying women the right to drink alcohol? Make it illegal and they should be arrested for having a drink because it might place them in danger. Now we have forgotten that date rape drugs can be placed in any drink, alcoholic or non-alcoholic. So even if she's there drinking orange juice, she can be rendered unconscious and not in a position where she can give consent and be raped because someone has decided to slip her a pill when she wasn't looking.


We could simply tell women to never leave the house. Again, wouldn't work since women are also more likely to be raped in their own home than anywhere else.


Maybe, just maybe, instead of attempting to attribute some blame to the victim, ALL the blame should be placed squarely on the head of the rapist. Strange concept I know, but it might just work.


We can lock up our cars to try to protect it from theft. We can lock up our homes for the same reason. We can force women to cover up and prevent herself from being raped. Do locked cars still get stolen? Yes. I had a car that was alarmed, locked and parked in a security garage (with security guards at locked gates to get in and out) right in front of the building entrance where people walked in and out all day to get to their car. It was still stolen. Are homes that have all the locks available to mankind and alarm systems still get broken into? Yes. Sometimes while you are sleeping unawares in your very bed.


Are women who dressed and covered up, aren't drunk or in a situation where they are alone and open to attack? Yes. When a man rapes a woman, it is not her dress or anything else that has made him want to rape her. It is her, the woman, who appeals to the rapist. Just like it is the child who appeals to the paedophile. Some rapists are attracted to older women, some to skinny, others to fat, some to short and others to tall, some to those with long hair, others to short hair. Some are just attracted because she is a woman and skimpy clothing is just one part that makes her look more like a woman. But some are attracted to women who are in jeans and a sweatshirt because it provides for more of a challenge. These women can be dressed in any way imaginable and she could still be raped.


So to all of you who think that men can't control themselvese and therefore women should take precautions, list all the precautions imaginable and then keep in mind that women who take those precautions are still raped. There is nothing to stop a woman from being raped. Maybe the focus should be solely on the rapist and go from there. Tougher sentences might be one way to start. Education for the general public about rape issues and rape in general might also be something to consider. After all, there are men out there who think that it is ok to rape one's wife and it is ok to have sex with a woman even after she has said no. Maybe the focus should be on people like that instead.. hmmm?.. just a suggestion.

 

[heart]

provocative drugs used to be virtually legal, but now they are illegal. Does any of these mean they don't have an effect? You be the judge.

I still stick by what I said in the previous post, "Even if it was (considered immoral today), does not take away from the responsibility that the rapist must own up to.

No, it probably cannot, but it certainly tells a lot about a stranger, and gives people a certain idea about a person

Are you implying that if a woman wears a mini skirt that it means she wants to be raped??? NOBODY has a right to violate another individual be it a man, woman, or child.

Yes, many different things turn people on, an example of that are people that get turned on by exposed women.

Exactly, MANY things turn on people in different ways. No matter if the person is wearing a toga, a winter coat, or is covered from head to toe- a rapist can be turned on in any of these cases. Therefore, like Bells explained people can still be raped. More than likely it's not going to stop them from being raped.

Bottom line, the real crime is NOT in what an individual wears. It's the act of rape that is against the law and those who break that law should pay the price period.

The bottom line is that not all men think the same way, until you respect this fact

Until I respect this fact, what? I've been telling you all along all men do not think the same way, I understand this very well. What am I not respecting? An excuse as to why they rape? In my opinion there are no excuses ever good enough to rape any man, woman, or child.

 

[Baron Max]

Baron's analogy with the bank and the bikini is hilarious actually. Do any of you think that to make the money look appealing, the bank would actually have to place a bikini over it?

You read that completely wrong, Bells. The bikini actually had little or nothing to do with it ....it was the money lying out in plain sight. But I forgive you your silly interpretation.

There is nothing to stop a woman from being raped.

Well, then why did you ask the question if you knew the answer?

Maybe the focus should be solely on the rapist and go from there. Tougher sentences might be one way to start.

I don't know the stats, but as I recall, very few rapists (only 10-15%??) are ever caught. So what does one do then? Tougher sentences won't do jack-shit unless you can catch and prove who the rapist was/is.

Education for the general public about rape issues and rape in general might also be something to consider.

Yeah, that'll work ...just explain to men that it's not nice to rape a woman. I'm sure that'll cut the rape incidents drastically, huh??

After all, there are men out there who think that it is ok to rape one's wife and it is ok to have sex with a woman even after she has said no. Maybe the focus should be on people like that instead.. hmmm?.. just a suggestion.

Yeah, we can gather all of those men into a auditorium and explain to them that raping women is not nice. I'm sure that'll stop rape.

Maybe, just maybe, instead of attempting to attribute some blame to the victim, ALL the blame should be placed squarely on the head of the rapist. Strange concept I know, but it might just work.

I don't know about the Land of Oz, but in the USA, rape IS, in fact, blamed on the rapist. It's only a very, very slim percentage where there is any blame place on the victim ...it's rare as hell and is usually only a sensationalist headline for the papers/newscasts.

However, all that being said and agreed to, we must remember that most women in the world are NOT raped ......so they must be doing something different, huh? Women have been going to the "XYZ" club for a gazillion years and have never been raped ....and yet, just last night, a young woman was raped leaviing the "XYZ" club. Why? What did she do that was so different to what all the other women did? Makes ya' wonder, don't it? Don't it?? Huh? Huh? Don't it make ya' wonder?

Baron Max

 

[Anti-Flag]

That’s sometimes arguable. It’s like solely blaming the illegal drug dealers

You're barely making sense so please elaborate.

Sure, lets all walk naked then. Why not?

Didn't think I'd need to include the word 'clothing' but I'll remember for next time, but sure, why not naked? It's still the rapists fault if they rape you,
but before you go wandering around naked be aware that you're putting yourself more at risk by being easily accessable so to speak.

What about the other types of rape

They were discussed in the rest of my post, which you clearly read, not sure why you needed to ask this.

Well, I think you are generally in the right direction. Rape has been around for thousands of years, sometimes it happens with violence and forcefulness; sometimes it’s a little subtle. I know a girl that was technically raped by one of her guy friends. She didn’t see it as rape, though she had a boyfriend at the time, and she really didn’t want a “quickie” that ill-fated afternoon. My advice and position is to always remain safe, know what you are doing, and don’t bother anybody or make them mad at you for any reason. Because at the end of the day, the rapist will get a few years of punishment, but the event will never go away from the victim's mind.

It is a horrible experience for anyone, the technicalities of rape are also vast. As was said, when alone with someone you can trust there is little you can do to discourage it if they have it in mind, but if they try it push them off, then if they persist fetch the taser.

I totally agree with you here. I do think there are common sense things we can do, like you said, trying to avoid walking down a dark alley alone.

Bells brought up, and I agree with her, there is way too much emphasis on how a person is dressed or looks instead of where the focus belongs, with the rapist. I believe if the penalty of rape were more severe, that it might help to lessen this problem more so than how a person is dressed.

I do think that there are additional things that can be done to help lower the risk, such as educating people how to get away and how to defend themselves. I do think taking a self defense class would help to empower a person if they were attacked.

Thankyou, I do agree with you and Bells that too much emphasis is placed on dress or looks, although I don't think it can be written off, although blame attached to it can be. I also think everyone should carry a rape alarm or something equally disabling and attention grabbing with them.
The penalty of rape should be something long term, to go with the effects of the distress caused. Although it'd have to be proved without doubt; ie, DNA evidence etc.

To all of you who think that a woman's dress or how she acts (flirts, gets drunk, etc) should factor into why she was raped, I have something to ask.

What can she do to not be raped?

Depends on the situation, but in some cases sadly, very little.

Not wear skimpy clothing? Ok fair enough. Force women to cover up from head to toe. Again, will this lessen the chances of her being raped? Can you be 100% sure? After all, if you are going to base this argument on the morality of the victim instead of that of the rapist, you need to be sure.. 100% sure in fact.

Nothing to do with the morality of the victim, I'm not sure anybody has said it is.

Now you need to also consider the fact that women in societies where they are forced to cover up are also raped.

That's been accepted, although more detailed stats of the rapes would be interesting, there are really two types, 1; random(raped by a stranger whilst out) and 2; calculated where you're raped by someone you know and previously trusted, both of these happen in most if not all countries, but what is the proportion of each in countries where you must be covered, compared with where you don't have to be? There is also something else to consider, in these countries, do women share the same freedoms? Are they considered the sub-gender and hence seen as inferior and in some sense acceptable to rape? Are there laws about it being impossible to rape your wife(this law may be a myth that I've heard and I'll accept that if it is). Are the rapes even reported in proportion or investigate in such?
I'm not saying they're completely invalid but without knowing for sure that women are on the whole considered equal and knowing more details of these stats it is difficult to use the counter arguement that; because rapes occur in countries where people must be covered, clothing is irrelevant.

And also the fact that the majority of rapists know their victims, sometimes they are related or married to them. So how will you tell her to protect herself or prevent herself from being raped now? Because no matter what she wears, she can still be raped.

This would be the type 2 rape I mentioned, and as you know full well was already accepted(I think by everyone) as exempt from the clothing statements. Best thing those women can do is invest in some form of defence.

Baron's analogy with the bank and the bikini is hilarious actually. Do any of you think that to make the money look appealing, the bank would actually have to place a bikini over it?

The bikini was clearly an irrelevant object, that I'm hoping you're jesting about as opposed to seriously suggesting it factored into the analogy. I believe you intelligent and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Could have used a better word though baron.

Or is it the object... the money.. that is appealing? Hmmm now here's an idea.
Maybe it is not the dress of the woman but the woman herself who is appealing to the rapist. Gee, who'd have thought.

I'm not convinced anyone said otherwise, they were obviously attracted to the woman or they would rape the clothing. Again I hope this is part of the jest because as a serious point it is nothing beyond stating the most obvious fact of the thread which has never been in doubt.
The point of the analogy(just incase you, or anyone else is still struggling) is that there are a number of things a bank does to protect its money as opposed to leaving it in the open in their banks, because although people shouldn't steal it, some might. It is not the banks fault if someone takes it though is it? The same applies to the rape type 1(which is all that is being discussed currently), there are things people can do to protect themselves, they shouldn't have to, and it's not their fault in any way if A; they do nothing and are raped, or B; they protect themselves and it doesn't help.
These protective measures include but are not limited to, travelling with friends, avoiding poorly lit places, carrying some form of pepperspray/other defensive item, being drunk and alone, and not wearing clothes that are easily accessable. It is not pleasant or pc to admit, but it is a sad fact that a drunk girl is a target, as is a girl in miniskirt and crotchless panties. Why? Because a rapist does not want to get caught. They pick a person and location based on it favouring them and getting away with it and I think it incredibly naive if someone cannot see that it would be a factor, put yourself in their shoes and think about it.
Women can still do these things, indeed they are equal and should live how they want, and even men are not exempt from being raped so really this applies to both genders, I would want them to be aware of the dangers and to stay in a group. It also provides safety against other things too.

What about telling her to not get drunk or do drugs. Ok, a fair and good thought. So who here would be willing to pass a law denying women the right to drink alcohol? Make it illegal and they should be arrested for having a drink because it might place them in danger.

I think you're going off the beaten track here Bells, you're the only one suggesting these kinds of things and know it would receive no support from men or women on the basis of equality, a ban for everyone could be different. Especially as men are raped too, but we arn't mentioning them in this ban eh?
Either way I'm sad to say I only hear these kinds of arguements from feminists trying the "Might as well just do this and oppress us again you bastards" arguement. I fully support genuine equality, and I greatly apologise if you genuinely don't mean it that way and think it would help and be an option but I sense it is nothing beyond baiting into a feminist trap.

Now we have forgotten that date rape drugs can be placed in any drink, alcoholic or non-alcoholic. So even if she's there drinking orange juice, she can be rendered unconscious and not in a position where she can give consent and be raped because someone has decided to slip her a pill when she wasn't looking.

You're attempting to draw us into this, nobody forgot. And again there are simple things you can do to reduce your chances of being drugged, don't leave your drink unattended and indeed keep an eye on it around anyone new or whom you don't trust, stay in a group or with a friend, and if someone offers to take you home, take someone else with you, even a girl can sexually assault another girl. No female I've known seems conciously aware of this, they haven't considered the thought and instinctively trust girls.

We could simply tell women to never leave the house. Again, wouldn't work since women are also more likely to be raped in their own home than anywhere else.

See above on types of rape. Also see equality.

Maybe, just maybe, instead of attempting to attribute some blame to the victim, ALL the blame should be placed squarely on the head of the rapist. Strange concept I know, but it might just work.

Always was the case, as far as I'd read here it was never disputed(except maybe chatha but some of the posts appear contradictory so I don't know). What people are saying, is even though the victim is not to blame they can reduce risks in some situations. Once you understand the analogies(and concern yourself with the situation they apply to, which although not common to your stats is still common) you will see what is being said, unless you blame the victims in said analogies for their naivity/unrealistic expectations in the current un-idealistic world, in which case you'd have to give us the reason why the blame is different in this case.

We can lock up our cars to try to protect it from theft. We can lock up our homes for the same reason. We can force women to cover up and prevent herself from being raped. Do locked cars still get stolen? Yes. I had a car that was alarmed, locked and parked in a security garage (with security guards at locked gates to get in and out) right in front of the building entrance where people walked in and out all day to get to their car. It was still stolen. Are homes that have all the locks available to mankind and alarm systems still get broken into? Yes. Sometimes while you are sleeping unawares in your very bed.

Are women who dressed and covered up, aren't drunk or in a situation where they are alone and open to attack? Yes.

Again, not disputed by anyone, cars get stolen regardless of being locked or not, but answer me a few simple questions, is your car less likely to be stolen if it is locked? If you take precautions (like installing an alarm) is it better protected? If you don't take any precautions and it is stolen is it the theifs fault? Pesuming you're logical enough to come up with the right answers here you'll have the answers to the analogies and should understand exactly what is being said.

When a man rapes a woman, it is not her dress or anything else that has made him want to rape her. It is her, the woman, who appeals to the rapist. Just like it is the child who appeals to the paedophile. Some rapists are attracted to older women, some to skinny, others to fat, some to short and others to tall, some to those with long hair, others to short hair. Some are just attracted because she is a woman and skimpy clothing is just one part that makes her look more like a woman. But some are attracted to women who are in jeans and a sweatshirt because it provides for more of a challenge. These women can be dressed in any way imaginable and she could still be raped.

Could. That is the keyword, she could be raped in anything, in a clowns outfit if the man so desires. We know the rapist is attracted to the woman, but what is being said is some things work in his favour, the female in a clownsuit might be the predators favourite but it might be far more awkward to get into and to flee from afterwards (could trip over those shoes for a start) and would probably attract far more attention with all the flowers and coloured hankies.
I needed to jest after such a long post, lighten up people it's more fun.

So to all of you who think that men can't control themselvese and therefore women should take precautions, list all the precautions imaginable and then keep in mind that women who take those precautions are still raped. There is nothing to stop a woman from being raped. Maybe the focus should be solely on the rapist and go from there. Tougher sentences might be one way to start. Education for the general public about rape issues and rape in general might also be something to consider. After all, there are men out there who think that it is ok to rape one's wife and it is ok to have sex with a woman even after she has said no. Maybe the focus should be on people like that instead.. hmmm?.. just a suggestion.

I agree with harsher penalties for it, along with a better education, like most things it isn't preventable, but it can be decreased with sensability and if more people report it immediately afterwards. A better education should include anyone who sees being a victim as shameful or bad in someway, if they can't be re-educated, slap them until they get the message.
Apologies for the exceedingly long post it was easier to group them and attempt a more detailed explaination, anyway I have a clown tied up in the basement I need to... err... talk with.....

 

[heart]

Yeah, we can gather all of those men into a auditorium and explain to them that raping women is not nice. I'm sure that'll stop rape.

Educating the public of how they can protect themselves is not so silly. There are many video tapes out there that teach a child what to do if someone tries to abduct them. There have been children that have watched such videos and have used what was taught and escaped. Will it stop a predator from looking for their next victim, sadly no, but like I said it has helped those attacked to escape. Same thing can apply in educating those of how to get away from a predator.

Also, as was pointed out most rapes take place with someone that the victim knows. Educating those who think that they do not have a right to say no just because they know the attacker (be it husband, boyfriend, or otherwise) would help the person to understand they do have a voice and a right to say no. Getting information to those people and how to remove themselves from such a situation is certainly a start, don't you think?

 

[mindtrick]

I would not take that pill in any case. Forgetting the reality (if the pill was really doing that) is not a choice for me.

 

[iam]

I would not take that pill in any case. Forgetting the reality (if the pill was really doing that) is not a choice for me.

I agree with that. Forgetting is just putting yourself in danger again. Memory is there for a reason though not always perfectly convenient.

 

[Chatha]

Originally Posted by Bells
To all of you who think that a woman's dress or how she acts (flirts, gets drunk, etc) should factor into why she was raped, I have something to ask.

What can she do to not be raped?

Not wear skimpy clothing? Ok fair enough. Force women to cover up from head to toe. Again, will this lessen the chances of her being raped? Can you be 100% sure? After all, if you are going to base this argument on the morality of the victim instead of that of the rapist, you need to be sure.. 100% sure in fact.

Well then lets do an experiment. Lets get a very vivacious woman and dress her up in very barely there and alarmly devilish outfit. Up the ante a little by oiling her up and painting her with those shiny things women spray on their skin. Put her in a room with 10 drunken guys, preferably military guys that haven't had sex in a long fuckin long time, or low lives that barely knew their side of the baby crib before they started commiting outrageous crimes. Do you still think she won't be raped, are you 100% sure? If I am not 100% sure. what makes you 100% sure?

Maybe it is not the dress of the woman but the woman herself who is appealing to the rapist. Gee, who'd have thought

Gee weez, I never thought of that. Of cause its the woman who they are attracted to. How many fat ass ugly women do you know gets raped often? Its the women they are attracted to, and dressing inappropriately doesn't help, its a very good way to stir things up. On the other hand, how many ugly women do you see dressing provocatively?

 

[Chatha]

Educating the public of how they can protect themselves is not so silly. There are many video tapes out there that teach a child what to do if someone tries to abduct them. There have been children that have watched such videos and have used what was taught and escaped. Will it stop a predator from looking for their next victim, sadly no, but like I said it has helped those attacked to escape. Same thing can apply in educating those of how to get away from a predator.

Also, as was pointed out most rapes take place with someone that the victim knows. Educating those who think that they do not have a right to say no just because they know the attacker (be it husband, boyfriend, or otherwise) would help the person to understand they do have a voice and a right to say no. Getting information to those people and how to remove themselves from such a situation is certainly a start, don't you think?

I'm not making this up, I used to know a girl, she looked mediocre at first, but then every saturday we all went out for sports and she wore this bad ass sexy outfit. Now, someone that I never gave a hoot about all of a sudden had blood running through my body. I never slep with her, but I sure thought about it, and it only got worse, she wore more and more skimpy sports gear. I am not saying rape video tapes and education are useless, that is a different topic, but women need to know that even they must be responsible for their actions. Its simple biology, a woman dresses in devilish cloths, a man somewhere has an erection, there's nothing you can do about that. Sitting men down in forums and telling them to avoid women is just the first part of the lecture, you have to sit women down too and tell them the same fuckin thing, you can try by telling them to stop dressing like a female Antelopes in heat. However, I think the biggest problem concerning rape is the media, constantly brainwashing men and women. The media objectifies women far more than any rapist would, these are the pressing issues.

 

[heart]

I'm not making this up, I used to know a girl, she looked mediocre at first, but then every saturday we all went out for sports and she wore this bad ass sexy outfit. Now, someone that I never gave a hoot about all of a sudden had blood running through my body. I never slep with her, but I sure thought about it, and it only got worse, she wore more and more skimpy sports gear.

But did that make you plan to rape her or was it just the simple wow, she's attractive it would be nice to have consensual sex with this woman? Just because your view of her being just one of the "guys" changed to an attractive woman you'd like to have sex with, means that you'd violate her.

Also, has it occurred to you that rape is not just for sexual pleasure? I'm not making this up, I know a girl who was dating a woman, who happened to be separated from the husband and wanted a divorce the whole works. To make an extremely long story short, this man raped the wife's girlfriend. Was it because he found the girlfriend attractive? No, it was to prove a point, it was all about control. The entire time that he was violating her he let her know just that.

I don't think sexual attraction is the ONLY factor when it comes to rape. Something that you might consider.

What I'd like to know is why is it some of you want to make excuses for the rapist when he rapes a woman, but when it comes to a pedophile violating a child, the rules change. All of the sudden it's inexcusable and the child couldn't possibly have done anything to encourage such a thing, as you'd have us to believe about women. You stated that rapists were psychopaths...that they didn't think like normal people. I wouldn't think a pedophile would either. Please realize I'm against any kind of rape, I just want to know why the heck all of the sudden those rules of what a person wears etc is exempt when it comes to a child vs a woman. What about a muscular man who takes off his shirt at the beach and say a bunch of guys gang up on him and rape him, would you still state it's because this guy took off his shirt and was barely wearing anything but his tight swimming trunks?

 

[Chatha]

Children are not as responsible for their actions. Women and men are not children.

 

[Chatha]

Lust as a Cause of Rape
Pop-feminists dismiss the idea sexual passion can be a motive for rape. They believe it is impossible for any woman to provoke an overpowering libidinal response in some men.

What if the tables were turned? There are many colognes for men, for example, manufacturers claim are laced with the male pheromone that will "put women in the mood." Suppose a man bathed in it, and the instant he set foot outside his door, women from miles around rushed to ravish him. Would they be guilty of rape? Or would they be innocent by reason of drug-induced insanity?

Some drugs work by mimicking the action of hormones. Morphine, for example, is similar to our own natural endorphins. Like drugs, hormones can have a profound effect on our perceptions and behavior. PMS exemplifies this. If women's monthly cycle can cause mood swings ranging from suicidal depression to murderous rage, then should we be surprised to discover what most people throughout history have known all along -- that the testosterone-driven male libido can sometimes flare out of control?

Women who wear clothes that exentuate their female attributes are bypassing men's civilized veneer to communicate directly to the male libido. Usually, no harm is done because most men have discipline. But somethings, like alcohol or women's provocative behaviors, can erode men's resistance. And sometimes that can lead to rape.

Why don't pop-feminists get this? Because a "reasonable woman" would not be aroused by the same things that arouse men? Because they would not perceive a female rape-victim's clothing or behavior as provocative?

In the precedent setting case of Ellison v. Brady, a "reasonable woman" perspective was established as the new standard for determining whether or not a woman has been sexually harassed. Pop-feminists hail this as a great legal victory because it opens the door for men to be judged, in a court of law, according to whatever perspective pop-feminists can persuade judges and legislators to accept as common to most women. The corollary to this, however, which they seem to have missed, is that this means women will be judged according to the now uniquely male "reasonable man" standard. Hence, would a reasonable man feel a woman was subjecting him to undue sexual provocation with her dress, perfume or behavior? Many men might say yes.

Women and men are influenced by different things. Just as a woman would be unlikely to respond to a female sex-pheromone-laced perfume where a man would, so a reasonable man could perceive certain behaviors and clothing of women as provocative and "precipitant" where a reasonable woman would not. ("Precipitant" behavior is defined as behavior of the victim which contributed to the commission of the crime. See Against Our Will, Susan Brownmiller, pp 394 - 396)

To insist men are wrong about what constitutes provocative female dress and behavior is to deny the validity of both the "reasonable victim standard" and the masculine experience. That is tantamount to saying only the female perspective matters, and only men are responsible..

http://www.backlash.com/book/rape6.html

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Women are the most delicate creatures. When was the last time you heard of a guy filing complaints of rape?

It isn't heterosexual rape per se that terrorizes either men or women, it's rape by a man. Any of you men who laugh off women's reactions to rape, imagine yourself being screwed against your will by a man. I suspect that even most gay men would find that frightening.

We all giggle at how thrilling it would be to be "raped" by a woman, because in fact that would be very difficult to do since so many of us go out looking for perfect strangers to have sex with. Most men would have their pants off before the woman could pull her knife out of her purse. But it doesn't work that way with another man.

Women don't fear rape by women any more than men do. Most women are completely blase about a kiss from a drunken or overly enthusiastic female. Women do three-ways with their lover and another woman, and shrug off the casual physical contact that's unavoidable. It's been decades since I met a woman who had the other kind of three-way, their men just don't want to do it. It creeps them out. Female actresses are pretty nonchalant about lesbian love scenes. Their reservations are about what their fans will think, not how it will feel.

To wit, the prosecution of women for statutory rape is just silly. All a female teacher has to do to "rape" a male teenage student is to let her guard down for two seconds and he'll do all the work. You notice it's never the boys who complain, it only happens when their parents find out. Probably their mothers. Most fathers would go in the other room and laugh their heads off.

Rape is an act of male aggression. To call anything a woman does "rape" demeans the concept.

 

[heart]

Children are not as responsible for their actions. Women and men are not children.

Just so I am sure where you are coming from, so does that mean you're saying it is the parents fault if the child is raped by a pedophile who happened to be enticed by what the child was wearing?

 

[mountainhare]

Bells:

Yes I lock my car door. I also lock the doors on my home

Why exactly? Are there any reasons apart from the fact that insurance companies don't cover idiots who forget to lock up?

A rape is not the same as the theft of a car.

No shit, Sherlock! That's why rape is called 'rape', and car theft is called 'grand theft auto'. If they were the same, my analogy would no longer be an analogy, would it now?

Do you wish to make any more dazzling deductions?

How you are even attempting to use the analogy seems silly to me.

It only seems silly as long as you fail to grasp simple concepts.

I could go out with a bunch of friends, dressed in discreet clothing and be completely covered. I could not drink and not leave by myself. I could take all the precautions in the world and still be raped, by someone I know and love or by a complete stranger entering my home.

And I never claimed otherwise! Why are you having such a hard time wrapping you head around 'subtleties' such as 'risk reduction'? Wearing a seatbelt while in a moving car doesn't complete nullify the risk of head injury, but I'm quite sure you strap up before taking the wheel.

On a related note, you can lock your car door and STILL have your car stolen. Why, the thief could just break the window in! So according to your shitty logic, nobody should bother locking their doors (especially anyone without insurance...). In fact, to even suggest that leaving your car doors unlocked provokes thieves would be 'condoning' theft. Wouldn't it?

Are you starting to understand the relevance of my theft analogy, Bells?

A rapist does not rape a woman because she's wearing a bikini for example.

I see. I have yet to see you provide credible scientific studies to support your conjecture, so I'd say that the jury is still out.

Telling women to not be provocative is impossible.

Which is a good thing, because I never told women not to be provocative. I'm not quite sure what provokes rapists, although I wouldn't be surprised if lust and a sense of dominance play major roles.

Whether dressing 'like a slut' provokes rapists is completely beside the point. I'm not arguing either way on that issue.

What I am arguing is that postulating that certain factors may increase a woman's risk of being raped in no way condones rape, any more than suggesting that 'leaving your car doors unlocked encourages theft' condones grand theft auto.

 

[Baron Max]

Just so I am sure where you are coming from, so does that mean you're saying it is the parents fault if the child is raped by a pedophile who happened to be enticed by what the child was wearing?

That's not what he said, nor what he meant, and you know it!! So why put such shit out like that?

I'd also like to know why you continue to use "child rape" when this topic is so obviously NOT about children and never has been?!! You'e just being sensationist for the agitation of posters.

Baron Max

 

[Nickelodeon]

You'e just being sensationist for the agitation of posters.

Coming from the master agitator, Bax.

 

[heart]

That's not what he said, nor what he meant, and you know it!! So why put such shit out like that?

Because, I asked him this question, which I think is very valid to this topic. "I just want to know why the heck all of the sudden those rules of what a person wears etc is exempt when it comes to a child vs a woman."

His answer was "Children are not as responsible for their actions. Women and men are not children"

The reason I asked him "Just so I am sure where you are coming from, so does that mean you're saying it is the parents fault if the child is raped by a pedophile who happened to be enticed by what the child was wearing?"

Is because he said that it is partially a woman's fault if she is raped because of what she is wearing. He wants to put part of the blame on a woman because of what she wears, and just as it is an outrage to you that I asked this question to him about a child, is just as much of an outrage to me that anyone would suggest just because of what a woman wears means she is partially at fault for being raped.

 

[Tiassa]

It seems a difficult question. Think of it like being someplace. Yes, I have a right to be in this or that neighborhood, but if I go there, chances are I will find trouble. Likewise for issues of appearance in rapes. But is it right? Of course not. The problem is one of how people perceive appearances.

The only fault a rape survivor bears is equivalent to the rest of us who would claim to have had nothing to do with it at all. Is it really her fault that she has not saved the whole damn world yet?

Apparently, some would say.

The rapist may, under some circumstances, be morally absolved for reasons of nature. Not so for those who willingly justify rape. A woman ought to be able to walk naked down the street with three dildos inserted and not be molested by some freak who thinks it means she needs him right now.

 

[Anti-Flag]

To wit, the prosecution of women for statutory rape is just silly. All a female teacher has to do to "rape" a male teenage student is to let her guard down for two seconds and he'll do all the work. You notice it's never the boys who complain, it only happens when their parents find out. Probably their mothers. Most fathers would go in the other room and laugh their heads off.

Rape is an act of male aggression. To call anything a woman does "rape" demeans the concept.

:bugeye: Please tell me you're joking fraggle.
Because most men would have sex with someone they find attractive the concept of a man being raped by any female becomes laughable??? That has to be a joke.