After rape memory pill question

[Baron Max]

Whatever sets the rapist off in his mind to do such a violent act doesn't take away from him being guilty of doing it- he is the one at fault for not controlling himself NOT the victim.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.

I'm assuming you think that the victim is somehow contributing to being raped or you wouldn't keep bringing up how the victim is dressed or attractive and young. If that is not what you mean, then I apologize and would be curious as to why you do keep bringing that up.

Well, it's somewhat similar to good ol' fashioned assualt and robbery. In most instances of assault and/or robbery, it occurs in a "bad" part of town ...or a part of town that's generally known as a dangerous place to be. And it's quite right of cops to ask the victim, "What the hell were you doin' in that part of town at that time of night?" See? The same goes for the rape victim. I think those are questions that should be asked, and should be answered. And as yet, I've not seen such studies or statistics.

There are no excuses good enough to ever justify a rape.

Well, see, you're wrong! The rapist definitely justifies doin' it or he wouldn't do it. Don't you agree?

So now we're left with .....why did he do it? How did he justify the raping? Was it a rape of opportunity where he just stumbles onto someone while burglarizing a house? Or was he attracted to some woman, then follow her to her home? I think those are important questions in order to help people learn what to do and what not to do. Because surely you don't think we can teach the vicious rapists that it's not a nice thing to do, do you?

Should we make every young attractive woman cover up from head to toe in order not to be a victim? IF such a thing were done...do you honestly think that rape would decline or better yet- cease?

Well, I don't know ....but we don't hear much about rape in places where women do, in fact, cover themselves from head to toe, do we? Don't you agree that rape seems to be more prevalent in nations that allow more freedoms for their women? ...the freedoms to wear skimpy clothing and strings for bathing suits?

It's funny how we seem to overlook this issue by trying to be so PC about it all ....and worse, acting like I'm condoning rape. I'm not.

But look at it this way; What would you say about a man who walked down the streets all the time with hundred dollar bills hanging out of his pockets? Would you say, "Geez, what a dumb-ass!" And if he got robbed, would you say that he was certainly somewhat to blame? And to make it worse, what if he got robbed while walking through the ghetto with hundred dollar bills stickin' out of his pockets? Was he just asking for it?????????

Some people dream of having lots of money, but if a person cannot come by money honestly and in turn robs a bank, they are the one with the problem, not the banks.

And what would you say if a bank start leaving the money right out in the open, covered only with a few bikini bottoms? Would you say that the bank was just asking to be robbed????? Hmmm?

Baron Max

 

[Bells]

Well, it's somewhat similar to good ol' fashioned assualt and robbery. In most instances of assault and/or robbery, it occurs in a "bad" part of town ...or a part of town that's generally known as a dangerous place to be. And it's quite right of cops to ask the victim, "What the hell were you doin' in that part of town at that time of night?" See? The same goes for the rape victim. I think those are questions that should be asked, and should be answered. And as yet, I've not seen such studies or statistics.

So you think the rape victim should be questioned as to why they might have been where they were when they were raped? Interesting.

# Approximately 68% of rape victims knew their assailant. [Violence against Women. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994]
# Approximately 28% of victims are raped by husbands or boyfriends, 35% by acquaintances, and 5% by other relatives. [Violence against Women. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994]
Link

Would you suggesting asking these victims why they knew these people who raped them? How could they have been related to them or married to them? How exactly would you question a woman who was raped by her husband, say in her own bedroom for example.. 'why were you in bed with this man madam?'.. ?

Would you question a rape victim if she were an elderly woman in a nursing home for example?... 'why were you lying in bed in this hospital here madam?'.. 'what the hell were you doing lying here in bed in this hospital gown lady?'..

Rape and sexual assault can occur at any time, in many places, to anyone. According to a report based on FBI data, almost 70% of sexual assault reported to law enforcement occurred in the residence of the victim, the offender, or another individual.
Link

Pray tell. What explanation do you think a police officer should demand from the rape victim who is raped in her own home by an acquaintance?.. 'what in the hell were you doing at home lady?'..

Well, see, you're wrong! The rapist definitely justifies doin' it or he wouldn't do it. Don't you agree?

Yes. Just like a pervert who rapes and then kills a child will attempt to justify it. Are they right?

So now we're left with .....why did he do it? How did he justify the raping? Was it a rape of opportunity where he just stumbles onto someone while burglarizing a house? Or was he attracted to some woman, then follow her to her home? I think those are important questions in order to help people learn what to do and what not to do. Because surely you don't think we can teach the vicious rapists that it's not a nice thing to do, do you?

No. That's what jail is for Baron.

Or are you saying that because the rapist can justify his behaviour in his own mind, we should just let him roam free?

Well, I don't know ....but we don't hear much about rape in places where women do, in fact, cover themselves from head to toe, do we?

Don't we?

In Saudi Arabia for instance, there are approximately 87 rapes reported per year.Link

Why just 87? Well it could be that their culture is so restrictive that women will not report being raped due to the sense of shame that she may bring to herself or to her family. The same applies in Iran, where rapes go largely unreported because of the shame that the community associates with it. Also:

A rape victim would not be at risk for reporting a rape, but she would be socially "tainted". The Iranian authorities would provide assistance to prosecute the offender in a rape case involving a man who was not known to the victim, and where the evidence is unequivocal. A rape case involving an offender known to the victim would not receive the same support from the authorities because they would want to know why the woman was alone with the man. In this situation the burden of proof would be on the woman. As well, if the offender is a member of the security forces apparatus or clergy, the case likely would never be prosecuted. The source stated that statistics on rapes in Iran are almost non-existent.
Link

Gee.. I wonder why we don't hear about rapes in societies where women have to cover themselves from head to toe. Keep going Baron and you are only ensuring you sound more and more like Sheik Hilaly. Not sure who he is? Google. I know, maybe we should instill a form of Taliban rule where women cannot show any part of their body at all and be beaten and raped if they do... oh wait.. that would defeat the whole purpose of stopping rapes now wouldn't it?..

Don't you agree that rape seems to be more prevalent in nations that allow more freedoms for their women? ...the freedoms to wear skimpy clothing and strings for bathing suits?

I think the above might have something to do with it. Or ir could be that women in nations that allow freedoms for their women also have a few more women willing to come forward to report it.

As for their skimpy clothing. Are you saying a rapist should be excused because the victim dared to wear a bikini on the beach? How about that old lady in the nursing home wearing the hospital gown? Or the 10 year old girl in her school uniform? I know! Force all women to wear the hijab and never leave home. That would stop all rapes. Oh wait.. I forgot about the fact that 70% of women raped are raped in their own homes or homes of acquaintances. So I guess that's out as well huh?

It's funny how we seem to overlook this issue by trying to be so PC about it all ....and worse, acting like I'm condoning rape. I'm not.

And it's funny how you overlook the issues based on your minsconceived notions of society and your misogynistic views of women.

But look at it this way; What would you say about a man who walked down the streets all the time with hundred dollar bills hanging out of his pockets? Would you say, "Geez, what a dumb-ass!" And if he got robbed, would you say that he was certainly somewhat to blame? And to make it worse, what if he got robbed while walking through the ghetto with hundred dollar bills stickin' out of his pockets? Was he just asking for it?????????

So you don't think anyone should be free to walk down the street with money in their pocket? Interesting.

And what would you say if a bank start leaving the money right out in the open, covered only with a few bikini bottoms? Would you say that the bank was just asking to be robbed????? Hmmm?

So you think the robbers were stealing the money because of the bikini bottoms? Right.. Ya.. that makes sense. And banks only ever get robbed when they leave their money out don't they? Oh wait.. no they don't. Banks NEVER leave their money out. Banks get robbed and the money that is taken tends to be locked away in the drawers or in the vaults and the employees are forced to get it out.

So that means that no matter how a bank hides its money within its walls, it can be robbed at any time. Hmmmm.. Funny that..

 

[mountainhare]

It's funny how Bells often flaunts herself as an intellectual (often with the occasional 'slip' where she mentions her career in law in order to cunningly boost her own credibility. But heaven forbid if anyone else should mention it as a strike against her!), yet then demonstrates in her posts that she does not have the brainpower to reason her way out of a paper bag.

It's quite clear that Baron Max (as much as a dick he may be) does not condone rape. Quite the contrary, he has went to extraordinary lengths to stress repeatedly that rape is not acceptable. I don't know how much clearer he could have been. I guess you could claim that he is lying, although I've never known the Baron to lie. He doesn't need to. After all, being liked isn't his top priority!

What he is claiming is that certain actions, or behaviour exhibited by women, will put them at a greater risk of being raped. Do I agree with him? Not necessarily.
But to accuse him of condoning rape for merely conjecturing that certain mannerisms may make a women more prone to rape, is both presumptious and reeks of political correctness. It's analogous to accusing a police officer of condoning grand theft auto when he suggests that you lock your car doors. Do you lock your car doors, Bells? Or do you find the very notion that not locking your car doors puts you at a greater risk of having your car stolen 'offensive', and somehow appeases car jackers?

And Bells, stop bitching about certain posters mentioning your law career. The reason it is brought up so often is because:

1. You often use it to boost your own credibility in an argument. SpuriousMonkey loves to do something similiar, although I think he does it more for an ego boost. You can't have your cake and eat it to.

2. Quite simply, you behave one would expect a lawyer to. Due to your adversarial nature, you often misrepresent your opponent, and push long-winded arguments which on closer inspection, tend to be more rhetoric than rationale.

 

[Bells]

It's funny how Bells often flaunts herself as an intellectual (often with the occasional 'slip' where she mentions her career in law in order to cunningly boost her own credibility. But heaven forbid if anyone else should mention it as a strike against her!), yet then demonstrates in her posts that she does not have the brainpower to reason her way out of a paper bag.

It's quite clear that Baron Max (as much as a dick he may be) does not condone rape. Quite the contrary, he has went to extraordinary lengths to stress repeatedly that rape is not acceptable. I don't know how much clearer he could have been. I guess you could claim that he is lying, although I've never known the Baron to lie. He doesn't need to. After all, being liked isn't his top priority!

What he is claiming is that certain actions, or behaviour exhibited by women, will put them at a greater risk of being raped. Do I agree with him? Not necessarily.
But to accuse him of condoning rape for merely conjecturing that certain mannerisms may make a women more prone to rape, is both presumptious and reeks of political correctness. It's analogous to accusing a police officer of condoning grand theft auto when he suggests that you lock your car doors. Do you lock your car doors, Bells? Or do you find the very notion that not locking your car doors puts you at a greater risk of having your car stolen 'offensive', and somehow appeases car jackers?

And Bells, stop bitching about certain posters mentioning your law career. The reason it is brought up so often is because:

1. You often use it to boost your own credibility in an argument. SpuriousMonkey loves to do something similiar, although I think he does it more for an ego boost. You can't have your cake and eat it to.

2. Quite simply, you behave one would expect a lawyer to. Due to your adversarial nature, you often misrepresent your opponent, and push long-winded arguments which on closer inspection, tend to be more rhetoric than rationale.

Had you bothered to actually read the post, you would have realised that I was not accusing him of condoning rape, merely saying his view of women and victims in particular in rape cases was a tad warped. We both agree that there is no excuse for rape. But where I say there is absolutely no excuse, he adds the 'but' at the end. That is what we are arguing about.

Baron knows my stance on this issue as we have discussed it many times before and I am sure will again in the future. He knows the bone to pick with me to get me started and vice versa. It is a little dance we often engage in, in these little discussions. We also differ and agree on a lot of other issues. Does not mean we cannot discuss them. If you have a problem with my having this discussion with Baron, that is your problem and yours alone. In short, butt out.

Oh, and not once did I, or anyone else mention my career in this thread, with the exception of you of course. So what are you on about mountain? Why did you bring it up?

 

[Baron Max]

..., although I've never known the Baron to lie. He doesn't need to. After all, being liked isn't his top priority!

Huh? Ya' mean this forum ain't a popularity contest??? And I've been trying sooooo hard to win, too! Damn.

Due to your (Bell's) adversarial nature, you often misrepresent your opponent, and push long-winded arguments which on closer inspection, tend to be more rhetoric than rationale.

Yeah, and it makes it damned difficult to have a discussion with her about anything. Her posts are so fuckin' long that, by the time I've finished reading it all, I'm completely befuddled, confused and wondering who the hell she's talking to.

Perhaps staying home with the new baby is giving her too much time, and she's bored silly? So she comes here to entertain herself instead of curing sheep hides and making leather garments for her family? ...LOL!

Sorry, Bells, but when you actually read over my post and have anything legitimate to say, I won't bother responding to it.

Baron Max

 

[swivel]

I think what Baron Max and Bells are arguing about can be helped by analogy:


Let's imagine that a store-owner decides that the cash register is slowing down his business, so he gets rid of it. Instead of keeping his money in a locked drawer, he keeps it on the counter, and lets people make their own change.

Every night, he finds that there is money missing.
Is the shop owner to blame for the loss of his funds? Of course not. He didn't steal it.
Could the shop owner have done something to prevent some of this loss, obviously.
What mistakes did the shop owner make? He doesn't understand human psychology. People will cheat in indirect proportion to their chances of being caught. The less chance, the more cheating.


Now, lets look at some rape statistics before we lay the transparency of this analogy over the case of rape:

69% of rape victims are raped by someone they know.

68% of rapes happen between 6 pm and 6 am

45% of rapists were under the influence of alcohol or drugs and 90% of campus rapes include alcohol.

How do these number help us? They tell us something about the psychology of the people committing rapes. Just like the store owner needed information about the psychology of cheating, women need to know about the psychology of rapists. They need to use this knowledge to protect themselves, just as the store owner should have used a cash register. Does this blame the victim? Of course not, it is how we EMPOWER the victim.

What should a woman do? Never trust any male, no matter how well they think they know them. The majority of rapes are date-rapes or family-rapes. Rapists violate a woman's sense of trust, which is why the psychological damage is so severe. Any male is capable of rape, so do not put yourself in a dangerous situation. Do not get alone with a male that you do not trust with your life unless you have friends to call for help. This is a sad, sad fact of how violent and aggressive horny men are. It is tragic that this is the reality of it, but avoiding this knowledge is getting girls hurt every year.

Don't drink around people that you do not trust with your life. Drinking leads to most rapes, and it is a way the victim can relinquish his/her power over the situation. It is sad that we can't get together with a bunch of strangers and get wasted, and trust them all... but such is reality. Don't drink at all if you can help it.


Feminists can't stand it when we give women advice like this. We are looking to help women and to prevent rapes. We want what is best for them. Feminists live in a fantasyland where they want women to be able to get drunk with strangers, take off their clothes, and expect the men to behave themselves. They won't. Ever. Stop getting women hurt because of your naive, utopian fantasies.

When I tell the shop owner to use a cash register, I'm not assigning blame to him for stealing his own money. It is obvious who is to blame. What I'm doing is warning him about the evils of society, and urging him to protect himself. I am doing a service with an understanding of reality as my guide. Feminists are doing harm, with an ideology as their guide.

And shame on them.

 

[heart]

Well, it's somewhat similar to good ol' fashioned assualt and robbery. In most instances of assault and/or robbery, it occurs in a "bad" part of town ...or a part of town that's generally known as a dangerous place to be. And it's quite right of cops to ask the victim, "What the hell were you doin' in that part of town at that time of night?" See? The same goes for the rape victim. I think those are questions that should be asked, and should be answered. And as yet, I've not seen such studies or statistics

I see that you are stating to use common sense when going out. Don't stand in front of an oncoming semi, don't walk down a dark alley on the bad side of town because you're taking a risk of getting raped.

Do I think it's a crime to be cautious? No, I do think it can be wise. But, where do we draw the line really? I mean mountainshare suggested for all women to not trust any men period, unless they feel they can trust them with their lives. Does it really have to come down to this? How does one not go overboard and slip into a state of paranoia?

Well, see, you're wrong! The rapist definitely justifies doin' it or he wouldn't do it. Don't you agree?

Okay, I get your point. I should have said, in my opinion there isn't a justification good enough. You're right, the rapist, I'm sure, justifies it in whatever bizarre twisted way.

So now we're left with .....why did he do it? How did he justify the raping? Was it a rape of opportunity where he just stumbles onto someone while burglarizing a house? Or was he attracted to some woman, then follow her to her home? I think those are important questions in order to help people learn what to do and what not to do. Because surely you don't think we can teach the vicious rapists that it's not a nice thing to do, do you?

There could be a MILLION reasons as to why and all varying from rapist to rapist. Again, where do we draw the line to where a woman doesn't become paranoid if she wears a red dress or should she wear her hair short opposed to long, etc... Somehow, I can't help feel that rape goes beyond simple reasons of "I was attracted to her Mr. Officer, so I just had to do her".

Well, I don't know ....but we don't hear much about rape in places where women do, in fact, cover themselves from head to toe, do we? Don't you agree that rape seems to be more prevalent in nations that allow more freedoms for their women? ...the freedoms to wear skimpy clothing and strings for bathing suits?

I can't add anymore to Bells answer... I think she provided some great stats that were overlooked. I will say this though, instead of putting a woman into a box and hide her away like she is the one that is the criminal, I would rather them enforce mandatory castration for repeat sexual offenders period.

Bells provided stats which I do think are important to look at, yet they seem to have been tossed to the side. That being, "Approximately 68% of rape victims knew their assailant". Also, "almost 70% of sexual assault reported to law enforcement occurred in the residence of the victim, the offender, or another individual."

Doesn't seem to me that the majority of rapes are just randomly choosing some stranger off the street because their victim is attractive. Seems to me they know their victim.

But, Max...do you feel in the case of say a 9 year old child, that she somehow contributed to the rape done to her by her neighbor? Was it because her hair was blonde instead of mousey brown? Was it because she shouldn't have worn shorts on a scorching hot summer day? How do you tell a child who did nothing in her mind- that there were things she did to in fact contribute to that rape- which made the rapist feel in his mind she was just 'asking for it'? As if the rapists reasons for violating her some how overshadow her being a true victim. I mean do we tell a child that had they not of worn this or laughed this way, that they would have never been violated? And how do we know that if the rapist did indeed state, "well the girl was just so hot looking and young I had to do it" isn't just a pitiful excuse for having done so? I mean, well, to me it is a pitiful excuse. Not every guy lacks self control when they see an attractive woman.

Educate a person and teach them how to get away...but to put someone in a box and say don't breathe don't move, because you just might get hurt...puts that person in a state of fear that can be horrible to live with, surely there must be a better way.

 

[Baron Max]

But, where do we draw the line really? I mean mountainshare suggested for all women to not trust any men period, unless they feel they can trust them with their lives. Does it really have to come down to this? How does one not go overboard and slip into a state of paranoia?

Reality often sneaks into the idealistic dreams of "what it should be", huh? And if you think about it only a little bit from another perspective, don't you think that the rapists of the world would have a "what should be" of their own? ...what do you think it would be??? Idealism ins't only for one side, ya' know?

But also, please don't use the term "paranoia" when it's really just common sense and a little caution. When you decide not to drive your new Jaguar through the ghetto on a dark night, that's not "paranoia", it's rational, realistic caution. Using the term "paranoia" is nothing but sensationalism.

I will say this though, instead of putting a woman into a box and hide her away like she is the one that is the criminal,...

More overboard sensationalist rhetoric?

Doesn't seem to me that the majority of rapes are just randomly choosing some stranger off the street because their victim is attractive. Seems to me they know their victim.

Don't change nothin'. Again, how many fat, ugly women are raped ...whether they know their rapist or not? See? Is that blaming the victim? No, of course not. But what it does it puts things into a different perspective.

And I've heard many peope make claims that the sex and the parade of beautiful women on tv and in movies, magazines, etc is sparking the sexual urges of men everywhere ...including, of course, those who would resort to rape. Is it fair to say such things as a defense for rape? Hell, no! But it does put things into a different perspective.

But, Max...do you feel in the case of say a 9 year old child, that she somehow contributed to the rape done to her by her neighbor?

If you hadn't been relatively rational in the other parts of your post, I'd be damned pissed off by that insinuation!!! But I'll let it pass this time.

Resorting to the sensationalism of child rape when discussing this topic is doing nothing but sliding down a slippery slope until you finally settle on something that "draws the line". It's a stupid, foolish way to discuss a topic, and in this case, it only raises the level of anger and hatred and irrationality.

...you just might get hurt...puts that person in a state of fear that can be horrible to live with, surely there must be a better way.

Seeking a fantasy world of idealism, are you? Once again you've resorted to a sensationalist phrase in order to try to make a point ...because you can't make the damned point any other way!

Until we, as humans, can exist in a perfect Utopia of love and kindness and happiness, etc, we have to learn to live with the realities that are presented to us. To say that the realities "aren't very nice" is to hide your head in the sand hoping it'll all go away. Reality is here to stay ...accept it, and learn to live within it's confines UNTIL you can change it into the Utopia of your dreams.

Caution and using common sense is NOT paranoia. If you're like millions of people, you use caution and common sense every day of your life ...to call it paranoia is foolish and sensationalist bullshit.

The very freedoms that we all fight to maintain in our lives is also the very same freedoms that allow for the rapists to rape their victims! Ditto for the criminals to do us harm - we've given them that freedom and we fight to keep it for them on a daily basis. And yet we complain when they use it?!

Baron Max

 

[heart]

Reality often sneaks into the idealistic dreams of "what it should be", huh? And if you think about it only a little bit from another perspective, don't you think that the rapists of the world would have a "what should be" of their own? ...what do you think it would be??? Idealism ins't only for one side, ya' know?

I'm not trying to be all rose colored glasses here and not think that bad things can't happen and that we can't be cautious or do things to help prevent them to the best of our ability. What I was trying to point out, though, was how mountainshare feels all women should stay away from all men, unless they know for fact that they can depend on them with their very lives. To me, and perhaps I haven't given it enough thought, but that seems a tad extreme. What if a woman is say a real estate agent and must meet a man to show a home? What if a man was raped by another man and he was a real estate agent and had to show a house to another man? What if this man wears something that might provoke some other rapist? WHERE is the line drawn at? If you don't think that type of thinking (creating several scenarios of what if's) can't work into a state of paranoia, then guess again.

But also, please don't use the term "paranoia" when it's really just common sense and a little caution. When you decide not to drive your new Jaguar through the ghetto on a dark night, that's not "paranoia", it's rational, realistic caution. Using the term "paranoia" is nothing but sensationalism

Please know that I'm not using the term paranoia in the manner of say, locking the door of a car before you go in the store. What I mean is how cautious must one be before it comes to a state of paranoia. How many blue cars must they watch before they realize it's not the rapist that had them, should they avoid all men totally in order to stay safe, should they run the opposite direction when they see any man walking in the same direction of them...etc etc etc
I'm not talking about the common ordinary things one would normally do in order to be careful.

If you hadn't been relatively rational in the other parts of your post, I'd be damned pissed off by that insinuation!!! But I'll let it pass this time.

Resorting to the sensationalism of child rape when discussing this topic is doing nothing but sliding down a slippery slope until you finally settle on something that "draws the line". It's a stupid, foolish way to discuss a topic, and in this case, it only raises the level of anger and hatred and irrationality

Max, you might not think the way of a rapist, obviously, but there are pedophiles out there that would think on those lines. Just as their thinking is off the mark in regard to a child, so is it in regard to a woman. Rape is rape...be it man, woman, or child. Each is just as awful as the other. I'm really curious though, had I of said the same thing regarding a woman instead of a child if your anger would have been the same level? Are there different rules, in your thinking, between the two? Please know I'm not trying to stir shit, I'm truly trying to understand where you are coming from.

Until we, as humans, can exist in a perfect Utopia of love and kindness and happiness, etc, we have to learn to live with the realities that are presented to us. To say that the realities "aren't very nice" is to hide your head in the sand hoping it'll all go away. Reality is here to stay ...accept it, and learn to live within it's confines UNTIL you can change it into the Utopia of your dreams

You know what? I agree with you on this. I'm NOT saying to hide our head in the sand and become an ostrich and pretend bad stuff doesn't happen. I'm not using caution and paranoia as the same. I'm all for people learning how to defend themselves were something to happen to them. Is that being paranoid? No, that's being prepared.

I meant more in terms of being too scared to live period. If we become that way one could easily become a recluse. I don't know about you, but for me that is no way to live.

Max, I feel that there could be a 100 million different things that various rapists could say that factor into selecting their victim. One may say long hair because it's easy to grab while the other says short hair is what does it for him. One could say short skirt the other could say a flannel shirt, and on and on. There are guys out there that like heavy set women..To try to cover all of those seems like an impossibility to me. So I'm asking you, what would your advice be, since everyone has different tastes when it comes to likes.

 

[mountainhare]

You STILL haven't answered my question, Bells. Do you lock your car doors?

 

[Chatha]

There is absolutely no excuse for rape, there is absolutely no excuse for the Iraq war, there is absolutely no excuse for the evil in the world, we can go on and on...or we can talk about more interesting things. A rapist who sets out in the dead of the night is more likely to go for a woman wearing more accessible outfit, just like wild carnivorous animals picking out the weaker prey of the lot. Bells needs to find something to say or I am loosing interest on this thread. Intead of going on about morality all day, we can do something more realistic, we can at least address the cause and effect. I guarantee you, if you take out all the totesterones in men's testacles, rape accidents will drop to nothing.

 

[jessiej920]

What if the woman wearing the more accessible outfit is the size of China the wrestling chick? Wearing a provocative outfit doesn't necessarily equal physical weakness. Though there are of course cause and effects in rape. A woman walking home alone by herself from a bar is more likely to get raped then the girl who leaves with a group, no matter what they are wearing. There are situations that people put themselves in that would make them more of a target for rapists, but that does not excuse it. I found this website interesting.

http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1981/3/81.03.06.x.html#c

 

[ScottMana]

The pill does not work by erasing. It simply reduces the ability think clearly and recall strong emotions. This dulls the memory. High price to pay if you ask me. First you get violated, than your mind does. Now you are violated and dull.

 

[jessiej920]

The pill does not work by erasing. It simply reduces the ability think clearly and recall strong emotions. This dulls the memory. High price to pay if you ask me. First you get violated, than your mind does. Now you are violated and dull.

It would be a hard choice to make. Some people have experienced true horrors that most people cannot even fathom. Sometimes being dulled by a pill might be the lesser of two evils.

 

[Bells]

You STILL haven't answered my question, Bells. Do you lock your car doors?

Yes I lock my car door. I also lock the doors on my home.

But what does that have to do with rape? I lock my car doors because the insurance company would probably be a bit cranky if it were stolen and I said I never locked them.

A rape is not the same as the theft of a car. How you are even attempting to use the analogy seems silly to me. I could go out with a bunch of friends, dressed in discreet clothing and be completely covered. I could not drink and not leave by myself. I could take all the precautions in the world and still be raped, by someone I know and love or by a complete stranger entering my home. People who say that women could prevent their rape by dressing better (not in a provocative way to attract unwanted attention), not getting drunk or using drugs, by being careful, etc, ignore the fact that they are more likely to be raped by someone known to them than by a stranger. So how would one protect one's self from someone known and loved and trusted? How would a wife protect herself from her husband who decides that her saying 'no' one night in bed is just not on and rapes her?

A rapist does not rape a woman because she's wearing a bikini for example. Telling women to not be provocative is impossible. Do you know why? What you find attractive and provocative won't be the same as what someone else will find attractive and provocative. Women are raped all over the world, whether they are covered up or not. So my locking my car door as a preventative measure is not a good analogy. I could take all the precautions in the world, and still be raped by a stranger or by a loved one. Just like my locking my car would not prevent it from being stolen, as I have found out in the past. I can't even say that the only precaution I could take was to never leave home because women are also raped in their own homes by either people they know or strangers who break in and rape them. Hospitals aren't safe, neither are nursing homes. So if anyone can come up with a device who preventative measure to protect women from being raped, they would end up being rich to the point of being ridiculous. Do you know why? Because nothing exists on this planet that can protect or prevent a woman from being raped or at risk of being raped.

Maybe instead of focussing on how women dress, the focus should focus more on the rapist and ensuring the penalty fits the crime.

 

[ScottMana]

It would be a hard choice to make. Some people have experienced true horrors that most people cannot even fathom. Sometimes being dulled by a pill might be the lesser of two evils.

All I am saying is that this pill is not the answer. But I do agree that we need to learn more about this so that we reduce this bight on man's behaver and give victims the ability to move on.

 

[ScottMana]

"Fighting crime" is just the punishment of it. The saner people that only need to be told will obey the law. The lesser ones will not and no amount of laws will makeup for the fact that they mean to keep doing it.

The only out is to understand what is going on and remedy that. Punishment has been tried and found wanting. We have an urgency to find a new way to stop this, one that works.

 

[Oniw17]

What's going on? Women are being raped because they are provoking the rapist? What's up with beaches? Shouldn't that be where most rapes happen?

 

[jessiej920]

What's going on? Women are being raped because they are provoking the rapist? What's up with beaches? Shouldn't that be where most rapes happen?

Apparently, since people are dressed provocatively. Therefore making them weak and easy pickins'.

 

[jessiej920]

All I am saying is that this pill is not the answer. But I do agree that we need to learn more about this so that we reduce this bight on man's behaver and give victims the ability to move on.

Yes. Rape is terrible. I have friends who have been raped and still suffer from the trauma of it. It is not about situation or provocation. It is about bad people who feel the need to dominate others. Half the time rape isn't even sexual. It is about control.