Absurd things Christians say...

[spidergoat]

I could not care less if you curse, I was just using the opportunity to make a different point. If the bible is so true about the apocalypse it must be true about everything else, including all the absurd rules. If it isn't, and God exists, then he isn't omnipotent, since He could have used one messenger to tell His whole message (and killed all false prophets).

 

[Adstar]

I agree with you. I know we will be made perfect only through an intervention the likes of which mankind has never seen. I also believe this intervention is coming soon. The fact that so many people can't see that there is something so inherently wrong with us that we can not fix it ourselves is beyond me. I mean how much blatent evidence do they need?! Even before god opened my eyes to what it is, I still, as long as I can remember, even as a small child, knew and felt that something was terribly wrong.

And God knew your thoughts even before you where born. Love what is good and hate what is evil and trust in His guidance and all will be well.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

I could not care less if you curse, I was just using the opportunity to make a different point. If the bible is so true about the apocalypse it must be true about everything else, including all the absurd rules. If it isn't, and God exists, then he isn't omnipotent, since He could have used one messenger to tell His whole message (and killed all false prophets).

What God could have done has no bearing on what He decided to do.

Ones inability to understand why God went about things the way He did is not a firm foundation to declare that God isn't omnipotent.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[spidergoat]

I think it is. Inaction can be just as immoral as certain actions. For instance, why would he let there be at least three major religions featuring him as a centerpiece? If there was one truth, there would be one word. If he deliberately confuses people, then he isn't good, and thus not worthy of worship (or he doesn't exist).

 

[jpappl]

That's a piss poor mindset j, and that's not how it works. It works through understanding and understanding is only achieved through the spirit and through experience.

Well the OP was, absurd things christians say, not absurd things I say and I was merely repeating what I have heard christians say.

It's just as absurd for a muslim to say, it's in the Quran it must be true. But they say it as well.

My whole argument on the issue of gods or no gods is where does the concept come from and what is driving ones faith to believe.

To me when anyone, you included brings their religious text into the equation to provide evidence of god then I say bullsh*t.

Yet, inevitably they all do.

There are those like my wife who believe in a spirit of sorts, but don't claim to know whose it is or what it is. That I can accept as a position because it is not claiming to know something that can not be known.

This is the rub for me, scipture and all of the other nonsense that is contradicted by what we have learned since and yet still using it as the basis for the belief.

That is what is most absurd to me, not the idea of god or a god, but the claim to know whose god is being represented.

 

[jpappl]

I think it is. Inaction can be just as immoral as certain actions. For instance, why would he let there be at least three major religions featuring him as a centerpiece? If there was one truth, there would be one word. If he deliberately confuses people, then he isn't good, and thus not worthy of worship (or he doesn't exist).

You making way too much sense, stop it I tell you.

The answer is always the same when dealing with the contradictions.

God is testing our faith.

Dinosaurs. Other religions. On and on it goes, when will the spinning wheel stop nobody knows.

The true believer will never see the contradicitons for what they are, errors, which means the texts are not the word of god.

Obivously, christians are not alone in this delusion.

 

[Lori_7]

Well the OP was, absurd things christians say, not absurd things I say and I was merely repeating what I have heard christians say.

It's just as absurd for a muslim to say, it's in the Quran it must be true. But they say it as well.

My whole argument on the issue of gods or no gods is where does the concept come from and what is driving ones faith to believe.

To me when anyone, you included brings their religious text into the equation to provide evidence of god then I say bullsh*t.

Yet, inevitably they all do.

There are those like my wife who believe in a spirit of sorts, but don't claim to know whose it is or what it is. That I can accept as a position because it is not claiming to know something that can not be known.

This is the rub for me, scipture and all of the other nonsense that is contradicted by what we have learned since and yet still using it as the basis for the belief.

That is what is most absurd to me, not the idea of god or a god, but the claim to know whose god is being represented.

What good is this spirit that your wife seemingly arbitrarily believes in? What good is this spirit that cannot identify itself, has no known characteristics, no purpose, you don't interact with, you can't learn from? Is this spirit just an idea to entertain?

We keep revisiting this same contradiction. I do not cite any religious text as evidence of god. Its the exact opposite situation. The religious text is entirely worthless, if not detrimental without experiencing the real thing. Which I have on many occasion intensely. These experiences, just like experiences with anything else, have revealed characteristics and a purpose of the spirit.
Who's god is it? Nobody owns god. Religion does not define god. Even experiencing god does not define it. But you can observe the outcome or the fruit of it.

There are truths embedded in every religion, whether you believe in god or not. There are many ways to tell the same story and get the same point across. But you have to admit, just like I had to admit, that what the spirit has shown me is extremely biblical in nature. An inherent defect that causes us to suffer. Cleansing and redemption of this defect by the blood. The aspect of communion and its consequences. These concepts are very evident in every day life, spirit or no spirit. The fact that people are blind to that is just another substantiation of the scripture.

 

[takethewarhome]

God is testing our faith.

Dinosaurs. Other religions. On and on it goes, when will the spinning wheel stop nobody knows.

What? So now god is resorting to trickery to see who's of faith and who's not?
I'm an atheist and I'll still give a god more credit than that. Sheesh.

 

[jpappl]

Lori,

What good is this spirit that your wife seemingly arbitrarily believes in? What good is this spirit that cannot identify itself, has no known characteristics, no purpose, you don't interact with, you can't learn from? Is this spirit just an idea to entertain?

The only good that I see in it is that she isn't acting like she knows exactly whose god it is and what that god represents because she admittedly doesn't know. So the good is she is being honest with herself.

We keep revisiting this same contradiction. I do not cite any religious text as evidence of god. Its the exact opposite situation. The religious text is entirely worthless, if not detrimental without experiencing the real thing. Which I have on many occasion intensely. These experiences, just like experiences with anything else, have revealed characteristics and a purpose of the spirit.
Who's god is it? Nobody owns god. Religion does not define god. Even experiencing god does not define it. But you can observe the outcome or the fruit of it.

But you from time to time cite scripture from the bible as where the idea of sin and renewal and the apocalypse come from, or at the very least use it as the source to back up your belief.

So citing Spider and I agree with this:

"If the bible is so true about the apocalypse it must be true about everything else, including all the absurd rules."

But we know that it is not true. So it's not right about the apocalypse.

There are truths embedded in every religion, whether you believe in god or not

Yes, they got a few guesses right.

But most of what fills them are bunk.

But you have to admit, just like I had to admit, that what the spirit has shown me is extremely biblical in nature. An inherent defect that causes us to suffer. Cleansing and redemption of this defect by the blood. The aspect of communion and its consequences. These concepts are very evident in every day life, spirit or no spirit. The fact that people are blind to that is just another substantiation of the scripture.

I disagree with this.

I will agree that there is a lot of bad in the world, all caused by humans, but there is also a tremendous amount of good, all caused by humans.

I disagree with your belief that we are defective by blood, that is biblical in nature and since I believe the bible is full of shite, why would I accept that concept.

Since there is so much good in the world, it doesn't make any sense.

That's like saying the half full glass has no water in it.

 

[jpappl]

What? So now god is resorting to trickery to see who's of faith and who's not?
I'm an atheist and I'll still give a god more credit than that. Sheesh.

You misunderstood where I was coming from.

The fundamentalists rationalize our discoveries as tests of their faith.

Did you not read this part.

"The true believer will never see the contradicitons for what they are, errors, which means the texts are not the word of god.

Obivously, christians are not alone in this delusion."

 

[takethewarhome]

You misunderstood where I was coming from.

The fundamentalists rationalize our discoveries as tests of their faith.

Did you not read this part.

"The true believer will never see the contradicitons for what they are, errors, which means the texts are not the word of god.

Obivously, christians are not alone in this delusion."

Who are you refferring to as 'our'?

 

[jpappl]

Who are you refferring to as 'our'?

Us, humans, since the religious texts were written.

The discoveries of science. The dinosaurs, evolution, the earth revolves around the sun etc etc. Everything that contradicts the bible being the literal word of god or any other religious text claiming such.

God is not resorting to trickery, you misunderstood the point I was making.

The fundamentalist view anything that contradicts what is in their religious texts as their god trying to test their faith. By challenging what is in the texts and forcing them to blindly believe, you know faith.

I don't believe in god myself, I am an atheist/agnostic.

 

[Adstar]

I think it is. Inaction can be just as immoral as certain actions. For instance, why would he let there be at least three major religions featuring him as a centerpiece? If there was one truth, there would be one word. If he deliberately confuses people, then he isn't good, and thus not worthy of worship (or he doesn't exist).

He does not confuse people. People who seek to find Him (the God of Abraham ) will choose one of the basic 3 to accept. They make the judgement:

"This is the true way"

They are not confused. They choose the way their spirit deems correct.

He allows alternatives to His Word so that those who do not have any love for the love of the truth can choose their own way.

And of course He allows those who do not believe God exists to remain in their atheistic state. If that’s where they want to remain.

Here again a true atheist is not confused. They are assured within themselves that God does not exist.

So no confusion, except for those who are unsure about the right Way. But again if they seek they will find the way that they deem is correct.

So most people are not confused and for those that are, most of them only experience confusion for a time until they make up their minds.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[SetiAlpha6]

He does not confuse people. People who seek to find Him (the God of Abraham ) will choose one of the basic 3 to accept. They make the judgement:

"This is the true way"

They are not confused. They choose the way their spirit deems correct.

He allows alternatives to His Word so that those who do not have any love for the love of the truth can choose their own way.

And of course He allows those who do not believe God exists to remain in their atheistic state. If that’s where they want to remain.

Here again a true atheist is not confused. They are assured within themselves that God does not exist.

So no confusion, except for those who are unsure about the right Way. But again if they seek they will find the way that they deem is correct.

So most people are not confused and for those that are, most of them only experience confusion for a time until they make up their minds.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

COOL!!!

So why does God personally ever send anyone a "powerful delusion" so they will believe the "lie" to further ensure their condemnation? How does that actually work?

I thought that was Satan's job not God's. I thought God wanted all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (New International Version)

10… They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

They are even condemned already so what is the point of doing this at all?

Thanks!

 

[spidergoat]

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Oh I see. People who seek the God of Abraham will chose one of the three Abrahamic religions. And people who seek Thor will find Thor, and people who seek nothing specific will find nothing.

 

[Lori_7]

Oh I see. People who seek the God of Abraham will chose one of the three Abrahamic religions. And people who seek Thor will find Thor, and people who seek nothing specific will find nothing.

how about this? people who seek god with no preconceived notions about it, will find god, and then upon experiencing god, can identify it's characteristics and reconcile what they're taught by the spirit accordingly?

is that too practicle?

 

[spidergoat]

God is a preconcieved notion.

 

[Lori_7]

God is a preconcieved notion.

god is also an entity.

 

[spidergoat]

If you start out with that premise, you will find things to support it and ignore things that contradict it.

 

[Lori_7]

If you start out with that premise, you will find things to support it and ignore things that contradict it.

you don't start out with that premise. you start out with the possibility and the assumption that if god is indeed an entity, and worthy of the name god, then it should be able to handle proving it's existence to you.