Your time upon this earth is ending...

[Cris]

Lawdog,

all those religions in the chart at least believe in souls, and at least two thirds in God or gods

Absolutely - a large number so it must be true then. Just like a few centuries ago almost everyone on the planet believed the world was flat. So with such a large number I am sure you must agree that at that time the world must indeed have been flat. Agreed?

 

[Quantum Quack]

Hitler had his concentration camps.

Stalin had the Gulag.

Jesus has Hell.

Who wins in the battle of the super villains?

At least when Hitler and Stalin were finished with you, your torment was over. Jesus thoughtfully extends that torment to ETERNITY! Amen and Halleluja!

and even if you followed them you ended up suffed......

"the only nose that knows where the nose needs to goes is the nose that knows best"

 

[Lori_7]

There is NO condemnation WITH Christ. You condemn your own self by rejecting Him. Condemnation is without Him. It's what is chosen at will. And it is chosen in fear which is why Lawdog's message is so hideous. It's this false witness to Christ that breeds the spirit of the antichrist. Does anyone else see this?

And don't worry people, cause if this world doesn't bother you, then hell won't either. The souls there choose to be there because they are afraid of Jesus! They are afraid of judgement...they are afraid of the truth. Judgement is the truth about you. Don't you want to know?

And Lawdog, you fucking moron, the love of Jesus Christ IS SO unconditional...entirely unconditional. He loves us all the same, whether we accept Him or reject Him...regardless of any of our choices, and regardless of how we feel about Him. He loves us even when we hate Him.

Lawdog, you're a fucking moron.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

NIce little quote. however I have nothing to fear truly because God is with me, and wants me to warn people about the dangers of Hell.

You have an illision of 'God' with you. Any resultant desire to take action is
purely from yourself and thats one of your methods to propogate the virus.

If you sit and listen to the weather man repeatedly warn you about a coming hurricane, and then say he is paranoid, or delusional, who really is delusional?

Weather is observable and predictable. It's real whereas 'God' is fantasy.

One part you got almost right, "The kingdom of Heaven is upon you", Jesus said it, and it means that a foretastes of Heaven is here, if you are a believer and pray, but there will also be the judgement..."those who do not believe will be condemned.." -Jesus

There is no evidence to support the claim.

Christ also said when asked about the end times: "You can judge what the weather is going to be when you look at the sky, then can you not judge the signs of the times?"

Wheather is very well defined and real. What, may I ask, are 'signs of the times'?

 

[Lawdog]

There is NO condemnation WITH Christ. You condemn your own self by rejecting Him. Condemnation is without Him. It's what is chosen at will. And it is chosen in fear which is why Lawdog's message is so hideous. It's this false witness to Christ that breeds the spirit of the antichrist. Does anyone else see this?

Yet Christ himself said "He who does not believe, he shall be condemned." and again later he says "depart from me ye accursed, into everlasting fire" and many more sayings warn of Hell for unbelievers and unloving individuals.

And don't worry people, cause if this world doesn't bother you, then hell won't either. The souls there choose to be there because they are afraid of Jesus! They are afraid of judgement...they are afraid of the truth. Judgement is the truth about you. Don't you want to know??

This is a correct view, except for the part about worrying, since Hell is immeasurably more painful.

And Lawdog, you fucking moron, the love of Jesus Christ IS SO unconditional...entirely unconditional. He loves us all the same, whether we accept Him or reject Him...regardless of any of our choices, and regardless of how we feel about Him. He loves us even when we hate Him.

You perhaps misunderstand my point. A love that is "unconditional" is not a true and genuine love, speaking ON A STRICTLY TECHNICAL AND PHILOSOPHICAL BASIS". Do not be misled by the emotional impact of the word "unconditional".
ON THE OTHERHAND, Jesus' love for all souls is truly UNCONDITIONAL. However, just because Jesus loves all souls in this world, does not mean he loves all souls in the next world, ie not the condemned. Indeed, you could even say that He loves the condemned, though He will not bring them out of Hell, in the same way that one might continue to love an estranged spouse.

Lawdog, you're a fucking moron.

interesting view, however these doctrines are not inventions of my own, they are taught by the Church.

 

[Lawdog]

Hitler had his concentration camps.

Stalin had the Gulag.

Jesus has Hell.

Who wins in the battle of the super villains?

At least when Hitler and Stalin were finished with you, your torment was over. Jesus thoughtfully extends that torment to ETERNITY! Amen and Halleluja!

clever and interesting argument, very challenging. Heres why it does not work: Jesus is God. His judgement is perfect and He has right and lawful dominion over every soul and all creation, total dominion. Evenso, He does not require souls to follow him or be saved by him, allowing exorbitant freedom to choose. You will say that this is not freedom. Your view of freedom does not apply to the situation. Do men who are drowning in water say to the rescue helicopter "I want a second and third choice of rescue helicopters, this one does not suit my taste or outlook, I feel that I am being forced to be rescued in a helicopter I did not choose!!"

 

[Lori_7]

I AM THE CHURCH, and Lawdog has no idea what he is talking about. Organized religion does not equal "the church". Those who are born again in Christ and know Him personally comprise "the church", and has nothing to do with the organization whatsoever. Jesus teaches me about Himself, His Word, and His Law personally. And He tells me that Lawdog, as well as so many other "church people" are full of shit. And after all...isn't it obvious????????

Trust me...Jesus loves you...NO MATTER WHAT.

 

[Lawdog]

God wants every believer to participate in the work of salvation, and that is the Church. Its not just about you and God, its about you, God, me, and every believer. God wants his followers to believe correctly about Who He is, so he left Authority to the Catholic Church. I am not church, I am in Church. I do not decide or determine the Truth, but I recieve it in humility from a higher power.

He has already redeemed us by His blood, however no living man is truly "saved" in the strict sense, but only redeemed, paid for, but now its up to each individual soul to make the effort to assure salvation for himself, to take up God's challenge, and even help save others.

 

[(Q)]

lori spouts:

I AM THE CHURCH, and Lawdog has no idea what he is talking about. And He tells me that Lawdog, as well as so many other "church people" are full of shit.

lawdog barks:

God wants his followers to believe correctly about Who He is, so he left Authority to the Catholic Church. I am not church, I am in Church.

It appears theists get conflicting messages from their god. Could it be that their 'divine antennae' have crossed signals? Is god messing with their heads?

Or could this be hard evidence to suggest that both are merely fantasizing and that their fantasies disagree with one another?

 

[superluminal]

Like I said. Theists battling theists. Same as it ever was. Gotta love it!

 

[Lori_7]

Well, apparently Lawdog's higher power is the Roman Catholic Church, and my higher power is Jesus Christ. It's not so surprising that we disagree.

 

[Lawdog]

Jesus Christ is the foundation of the Church. It is a serious error to try and separate these. it leads to heresy, and so it appears that "theists battle theists" but in reality, its just theists who disagree. God gives people the freedom to disbelieve in His Church, though they take serious risks in doing so, because outside the Church a christian is left alone, among the wolves.

 

[superluminal]

lawdog:

...because outside the Church a christian is left alone, among the wolves.

Poor defenseless christians. I guess that's why they occasionally amass armies of themselves to eradicate the heathens and other nonbelievers - the wolves. Makes sense. If your message is so weak that even children see through it until indoctrinated, then I guess violence is the only course. I'm all for it. Weed out the gene pool of the strong minded free thinkers and all that.

Come to grandma, little red riding hood...

 

[Lori_7]

I'm not alone. And we'll see what's left standing of "your" church when it's all said and done.

Revelation CH 17-18

"MYSTERY...BABYLON THE GREAT...THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES...AND OF THE ABOMONATIONS OF THE EARTH"

 

[jayleew]

Thank you for the reminder, LawDog.

One day I crossed paths with a homeless person named Jesse. I myself was walking back to my four star hotel with a handful of nachos. I had pity on the man, so I sat next to him in my Armani suit, gave him some money, offered some nachos, and asked him if there is anything I can do for him.

No sooner that I did this, he said, "You aren't going to start talking about Jesus are you?"

I told him no, and that I just wanted to see if there was anything I could do for him.

He made me think about what Christians are doing to the world, and how we sound to the world. Obviously, he had been approached in the same manner before and then told about Christ until he was blue. Did it do any good? No, he was still there on the street.

Doom and gloom preaching needs to be left to those who want to listen, or who at least believe in God. Instead, we need to follow Christ's example. He called people to gather, fed them, healed them, then told them about himself and God. It does more good to help the needy and protect the weak, than to shout at them about their life.

By the way, you are confused about Jesus's love. It is unconditional, he takes us as we are and changes us. Salvation, on the other hand (as you have pointed out in scripture), is conditional of belief in Jesus Christ. Just because my son says he hates my guts, doesn't mean I love him any less, but he will not enter my house with a rebellious heart. Today, we live in grace. God sees us through Jesus's sacrifice and what we could be if we believe. It is up to us to choose to accept him and make that a reality. Jesus's love is unconditional, if it weren't, there would be no Christians. We love him because he first loved us. Jesus sits with sinners and breaks bread with them, then tells them to follow him. His love is unconditional.

 

[tablariddim]

AAAARGH! leave it out already.

 

[Lawdog]

I'm not alone. And we'll see what's left standing of "your" church when it's all said and done.

Revelation CH 17-18

"MYSTERY...BABYLON THE GREAT...THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES...AND OF THE ABOMONATIONS OF THE EARTH"

pathetic

 

[Raithere]

Your view of freedom does not apply to the situation. Do men who are drowning in water say to the rescue helicopter "I want a second and third choice of rescue helicopters, this one does not suit my taste or outlook, I feel that I am being forced to be rescued in a helicopter I did not choose!!"

The difference is that God is the one who stuck us in the water in the first place.

What do you say to the man who throws you in the ocean to drown and then offers to rescue you but only if you first swear to do everything he tells you? And if you don't, he'll throw you back in.

~Raithere

 

[Cris]

So here we have Lawdog, a religious fundamentalist. How best to interract with such an individual? He does not respond to reasoned arguments, and the basis for his assertions is Christian/Catholic fantasies.

Without the asserter agreeing to use the rules of reason there is no way to penetrate the barrier presented by the imaginative constructs of religious fantasy. Such fantasies are infinitely variable and can thus change at a whim to respond to any reasoned argument. Such is the nature of any vacuous and baseless belief system.

Fundamentalists are usually thick skinned and ignore and expect abuse, so that approach, although tempting, does not help us.

What then are our alternatives? We've seen these types many times in this forum, and I have yet to see a winning approach - without the use of reason a preaching fundy is as meaningfully interractive as a brick wall.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

It's all about removing the virus that has plagued his mind. A persistant
and consistent message may undo the damage. If it doesn't then forcing
strong emotional reaction that contradicts the virus and making him realize
it may be an alternative (I don't know if that's a effective approach on
an online public forum though... I've had mixed results with that).