Wicked thoughts

jpappl said:
Diamond,
So to clarify, if they were married it's ok, but if they were not married, and had a sexual relationship with another then it would not be allowed , Correct ?
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Quran 24:3. Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.

This means that according to Islamic law, those proven to be engaged in adultery, cannot marry those people innocent thereof. This only applies to believers, Muslims, as Unbelievers are not governed by the laws of the Quran, hence an adulterer or adultress may marry Unbelievers, indeed they become of them.

So this encouragement that they should not avoid having children, could you elaborate on this.
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The reason for this needs to be investigated. Why does the couple or one among the couple wish not to have children? Are their reasons valid, or does the Quran encourage them to take a different approach. According to the Quran, poverty is not an excuse, as God says he will provide for the children. Furthermore, a man and a woman wanting to live their own life is not a legitimate excuse either, because the primary purpose of marriage is to raise children and care for the coming generation. In short, the right of the child and the right of God govern the reasons for when is contraception legal or not, encouraged or discouraged.
 
DiamondHearts said:
Quran 24:3. Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.

This means that according to Islamic law, those proven to be engaged in adultery, cannot marry those people innocent thereof. This only applies to believers, Muslims, as Unbelievers are not governed by the laws of the Quran, hence an adulterer or adultress may marry Unbelievers, indeed they become of them.
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Don't forget you need four witnesses to the act to prove adultery.

The reason for this needs to be investigated. Why does the couple or one among the couple wish not to have children? Are their reasons valid, or does the Quran encourage them to take a different approach. According to the Quran, poverty is not an excuse, as God says he will provide for the children. Furthermore, a man and a woman wanting to live their own life is not a legitimate excuse either, because the primary purpose of marriage is to raise children and care for the coming generation. In short, the right of the child and the right of God govern the reasons for when is contraception legal or not, encouraged or discouraged.
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I think it was because the Meccans practised female infanticide. Girls were considered a liability and an expense.
 
This means that according to Islamic law, those proven to be engaged in adultery, cannot marry those people innocent thereof. This only applies to believers, Muslims, as Unbelievers are not governed by the laws of the Quran, hence an adulterer or adultress may marry Unbelievers, indeed they become of them.
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So in other words, if you had a relationship outside of marriage and you want to stay a Muslim, you can not re-marry.

If you had a sexual relationship outside of marriage are you still considered a Muslim ?

The reason for this needs to be investigated. Why does the couple or one among the couple wish not to have children? Are their reasons valid, or does the Quran encourage them to take a different approach. According to the Quran, poverty is not an excuse, as God says he will provide for the children. Furthermore, a man and a woman wanting to live their own life is not a legitimate excuse either, because the primary purpose of marriage is to raise children and care for the coming generation. In short, the right of the child and the right of God govern the reasons for when is contraception legal or not, encouraged or discouraged.
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Ok, so in the end, contraception is not encouraged because of this. So if the couple wanted to continue to have sex while preventing a pregnancy they can do so as long as they don't get married, but they can't do so because having sex outside of marriage is against the rules as well, correct ?
 
No it means you cannot consider someone guilty if you cannot furnish four witnesses to the act.

The verse distinctly reads that it is directed towards those "guilty of adultery" and then "if they cannot furnish four witnesses" then the accusers will receive the punishment instead.
 
Actually its directed towards accusers of women. :p

But yeah, its a recognition that people make mistakes.
 
The verse distinctly reads that it is directed towards those "guilty of adultery" and then "if they cannot furnish four witnesses" then the accusers will receive the punishment instead.
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Are the accusers also the witnesses ?
 
jpappl said:
So in other words, if you had a relationship outside of marriage and you want to stay a Muslim, you can not re-marry.
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Adulterers nor adultresses are not allowed to marry among chaste individuals. Adultery is a serious crime in Islamic Law [along with Torah and Bible]. "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death" (Lev. 20:10).

As for those who engage in the crime without marriage, known as fornication, the punishment is lashes and exile for a year. They may, however, get married after their punishment and after they have repented for their crimes and desist from it.

If you had a sexual relationship outside of marriage are you still considered a Muslim ?
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Yes, provided he asks for forgiveness from God. He isn't Muslim when committing the act and thus his faith is weakened as a result of this crime.


Ok, so in the end, contraception is not encouraged because of this. So if the couple wanted to continue to have sex while preventing a pregnancy they can do so as long as they don't get married, but they can't do so because having sex outside of marriage is against the rules as well, correct ?
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I don't understand the question. Contraception is permissible, but in certain instances it is discouraged. It is up to the couple.
 
PieAreSquared said:
He isn't Muslim when committing the act

.... another brilliant escape clause...:roflmao:
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I disagree with that one. If he is not Muslim, then he would not be bound by Islamic laws and hence would have no need to repent.
 
I should clarify, when he is engaging in an criminal act, no one is Muslim. If they repent later for their crimes, then God can choose to forgive them or not based on if they are sincere and if they desist form the act.
 
I don't think thats a valid argument. Its like saying, while committing crimes the troops are not American, however if they repent, then they are. But since they were not American while committing the crimes, they cannot be punished by the US Justice system.

Believing in God will not make you perfect as a human being. Being a Muslim is about believing in God, if Muslims did not commit crimes then you would not need laws to define what is right or wrong for them.

Most importantly no man can judge who is Muslim and who is not.
 
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