Why Jews did not return to Palestine earlier
- Thread starter arauca
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@Shadow1 --
No, Israel is not an illegal country. The settlements that have been springing up in occupied territory, however, are a violation of the Geneva Conventions which Israel has signed. This makes the settlements, not the country, illegal under international law.
No, Israel is not an illegal country. The settlements that have been springing up in occupied territory, however, are a violation of the Geneva Conventions which Israel has signed. This makes the settlements, not the country, illegal under international law.
true dat
the 9000 peasants evicted from the jezreel valley were justly compensated
In the 1870s, the Sursock family of Beirut (present-day Lebanon) purchased the land from the Ottoman government for approximately £20,000. Between 1912 and 1925 the Sursock family (then under the French Mandate of Syria) sold their 80,000 acres (320 km²) of land in the Vale of Jezreel to the American Zion Commonwealth for about nearly three quarters of a million pounds, who purchased the land for Jewish resettlement and the Jewish National Fund.contrast all that with the mandate....
Following these sales, the 8 000 Arab farmers who lived in 22 villages working for the absentee landowners were evicted. Some farmers refused to leave their land, as in Afula (El-Ful), however the new owners decided that it would be inappropriate for these farmers to remain as tenants on land intended for Jewish labor, and they also followed the socialist ideology of the Yishuv, believing that it would be wrong for a (Jewish) landlord to exploit a landless (Arab) peasant. British police had to be used to expel some and the dispossessed made their way to the coast to search for new work with most ending up in shanty towns on the edges of Jaffa and Haifa.
To safeguard the civil and religious rights of all inhabitants of Palestine irrespective of race and religion, and, whilst facilitating Jewish immigration and settlement, to ensure that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced.
"it is necessary that the Jewish community in Palestine should be able to increase its numbers by immigration. This immigration cannot be so great in volume as to exceed whatever may be the economic capacity of the country at the time to absorb new arrivals. It is essential to ensure that the immigrants should not be a burden upon the people of Palestine as a whole, and that they should not deprive any section of the present population of their employment."-------------------------------It is a mistake to assume that the Vale of Esdraelon was a wilderness before the arrival of the Jewish settlers and that it is now a paradise. A very large amount of money has been spent by the various Jewish agencies, and great improvements have been made. The work that has been done, especially in the direction of drainage and the introduction of new and improved methods of agriculture is highly valuable. There can be little doubt that in time, the application of capital, science, and labour will result in general success. It is, however, unjust to the poverty stricken fellah' who has been removed from these lands that the suggestion should continually be made that he was a useless cumberer of the ground and produced nothing from it. It should be quite obvious that this is not the fact.and the plunder continues unabated..
In ancient times Esdraelon was the granary, and by the Arabs is still regarded as the most fertile tract of Palestine
Settlements, of which there are now hundreds, come in every shape, size and hue. From mini-cities – part Stevenage, part Stepford – such as Maale Adumim, to the wild West Bank fort at Hebron.
Many settlements are little more than dormitory towns for commuters who can't afford family homes in Israel and have been enticed over the Green Line with generous state subsidies and a nudge-nudge-wink-wink, "don't worry, we'll never give it back." Then there are the "Hilltop Youth," fresh-faced, pious and prone to thuggery, whose DIY illegal encampments pock Judea's shapely peaks, the fast-breeding "facts on the ground".
There are settlements for the very religious and settlements for the totally secular. There are settlements for Russian immigrants and settlements for English speakers. There are even several little-publicised settlements whose inhabitants believe in peace and fostering good relations with their Palestinian neighbours.
Israel’s High Court legitimizes looting of land in Derekh Ha’avot outpost
On 1 September 2010, Israel's High Court of Justice sanctioned the looting of land and the unlawful building carried out in establishing the Derekh Ha'avot outpost, near the Elazar settlement, in the Etzion Bloc. The court's decision was made even though the state had declared for almost nine years that the construction in the outpost was unlawful. The court rejected Peace Now's petition, filed in 2008, demanding evacuation of the outpost and its residents, who had taken control of land they did not own and had built houses without obtaining a building permit. It also refrained from ordering the state to set a binding time-table for enforcing the law. The court based its decision, written by Justice Edmond Levy, with justices Edna Arbel and Neal Handel concurring, on the claim that the court refrains, as a rule, from interfering in priorities of the defense establishment relating to law enforcement. On this pretext, the Israeli judicial system, including Supreme Court justices sitting as the High Court of Justice, has not ordered enforcement of the law on the outposts for 12 years.
Question : who owned the land , who purchased the land , does the owner have right to use the land for what ever he intends ?
Do you think in the USA the small guy have any right , specially if you are poor , if you think he does , well you are wrong . I am fighting a so called government agency for 5 years , they change rulings in the process . this hear is no different the the USSR o Cuba, so are the Isralii and so are the other Muslim nation , Why do you think this year just about all who had so called legitimate government had an uprising , was it that they practice ISLAM . My motto is " government is for benefit of the people who work for the government"
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I'm not a fascist.
Also, what bothers you with my post?
And I do know that they have the same rights as everyone else, that also means, they don't have the right to take the rights of other people, because all the people have the same rights.
They (Zionists, I don't want to say Jews) don't have the right to rape lands of other families and people, nor the right to kill them, because they also, have the same rights as they do).
I'm not a fascist.
Also, what bothers you with my post?
And I do know that they have the same rights as everyone else, that also means, they don't have the right to take the rights of other people, because all the people have the same rights.
They (Zionists, I don't want to say Jews) don't have the right to rape lands of other families and people, nor the right to kill them, because they also, have the same rights as they do).
Invaded Palastine, (Palastnians didnt think wise, Bourguiba told them, to give the Jews a piece of their lands, and they may deal with them later when they can, because he knew that if they don't give their lands to jews, just like that, those jews will just take it from them the hard way), they killed innocent people, they make illigel settelements...They may be "legal" to the world "laws", but they are not legal to the humanity laws.
"legality" is relative.
This part:
Do you understand that no one was making such an argument? I don't even recall ever seeing such an excuse being made. So when you attempt to shut down the discussion with "this thread will just end with everyone writing Jewish people and/or Israelis a blank cheque because we really, really think they're the Chosen People", it strikes me as something a fascist would do when frustrated by reasoned arguments about factual items about Jewish return and so forth. Change the channel, distract the argument, put it into terms that gets the bludgeoning back on track. What I'm asking for is nuance, shadow: a recognition of the subtleties of reality. You're taking a many-tiered discussion and trying to put it on a simplistic track. Now, maybe you're not a fascist, but it strikes me as something an extremist would do: witness Sam's evasion and subsequent flight over there. If you want to discuss this in a reasoned way, great. Let's do that.
Palestinian are Jews only they were converted by Muslims into Islam. Greeks and Roman labeled the land of Israel into Palestine . So as for me there is no business of ours to bet into family feud .
kx000
Valued Senior Member
Obviously. But, you have no idea what reality is. What can we discover tomorrow that would make it all irrelivent?
Also consider it took them 40 years to find their way out of the Sinai. Its pretty hard to get lost in a place that is so small
That probably explains why they took the long road to Jerusalem
They where not looking for a way out of Sinai. they where serving a 40 year prison sentance. They where not allowed to go into the land untill they had completed their 40 years.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
PS: oh i forgot to say that at the end of their time they entered into Israel over the Jordan river so they where not in the sinai for all those years anyway. they could have been trecking all over the deserts of saudi arabia for all we know.
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Well they did have a carry in carry out policy. They where moving all the time. They never stopped to build cities. Not surprising there would be little trace of them these days.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Can you explain what evidence would you like to see ?
Don't just say we can not find evidence , don't just wave your hands ?
They didn't build any cities. They slaughtered everyone who was there.
@arauca --
How about some midden heaps, archaeologists love midden heaps. They tell us all sorts of things about the people who made them, and all cultures make them(in the current age we call them "landfills"). The thing is, we've found plenty of midden heaps in the Sinai Desert, but none of them are Hebrew in origin. How do we know this? Because there are pig bones in the heaps.
Ancient Hebrew dwellings, even temporary ones(and anyone here who says that they never put up temporary shelter for the night is an idiot, period), are easily distinguished by the lack of pig bones in their midden heaps. The complete lack of Hebrew midden heaps in the Sinai Desert is evidence that they weren't there, especially not for the claimed forty years.
@Adstar --
Unless you're seriously suggesting that the Hebrews carried literally everything they had, including all garbage and food waste, around for forty years, then we can safely conclude that the events didn't happen as the "good book" tells us they did.
Furthermore, unless you think that millions of people(the bible puts it at around six million, but I'm willing to go down to two million, cutting the number by one third to help you guys out) can wander through any place, let alone stay there, without leaving a single trace then you're demonstrably delusional. Such a thing is impossible, especially considering that they weren't exactly technological geniuses at the time.
Oh, and that "they might have been wandering elsewhere" thing is nothing but a scapegoat. Sure, they might have been wandering elsewhere, they might have also been drinking Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters in the Restaurant at the End of the Universe too, but they weren't. It's also not what the bible says. The bible says that they wandered in the desert for forty years. That's a long time to spend in "the desert" without leaving a single trace, even if you extend "the desert" to include all surrounding deserts.
No, the far better explanation is that it never happened.
How about some midden heaps, archaeologists love midden heaps. They tell us all sorts of things about the people who made them, and all cultures make them(in the current age we call them "landfills"). The thing is, we've found plenty of midden heaps in the Sinai Desert, but none of them are Hebrew in origin. How do we know this? Because there are pig bones in the heaps.
Ancient Hebrew dwellings, even temporary ones(and anyone here who says that they never put up temporary shelter for the night is an idiot, period), are easily distinguished by the lack of pig bones in their midden heaps. The complete lack of Hebrew midden heaps in the Sinai Desert is evidence that they weren't there, especially not for the claimed forty years.
@Adstar --
Unless you're seriously suggesting that the Hebrews carried literally everything they had, including all garbage and food waste, around for forty years, then we can safely conclude that the events didn't happen as the "good book" tells us they did.
Furthermore, unless you think that millions of people(the bible puts it at around six million, but I'm willing to go down to two million, cutting the number by one third to help you guys out) can wander through any place, let alone stay there, without leaving a single trace then you're demonstrably delusional. Such a thing is impossible, especially considering that they weren't exactly technological geniuses at the time.
Oh, and that "they might have been wandering elsewhere" thing is nothing but a scapegoat. Sure, they might have been wandering elsewhere, they might have also been drinking Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters in the Restaurant at the End of the Universe too, but they weren't. It's also not what the bible says. The bible says that they wandered in the desert for forty years. That's a long time to spend in "the desert" without leaving a single trace, even if you extend "the desert" to include all surrounding deserts.
No, the far better explanation is that it never happened.
Please read the context of the discussion. We are talking about the time they where wandering in the desert, before they crossed the river Jordan and entered the Promised Land. Not after.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
What garbage would they produce???? They where supplied with food from God called mana. And even if they left food it would have been soon consumed by animals. Why would any food be found in the wilderness today? They never stored any because they always received all they needed each morning.
Well bost it up to 8 million. If all they leave behind is their footprints then a few sand storms would wipe out all signs of their passing within months.
No arguments just statements. Do you know how to state a belief then give constructive points to support that belief??? "Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters" LOL
Where is the separating band of green that divides the Sinai from the desert of the Arabian peninsular? The whole area is one wilderness, the borderlines are political.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days