Why Jews did not return to Palestine earlier

That area was chosen not because of any actual history the jews of this time have there, but because of a fictional history that has widely been accepted by a rather credulous cross section of the world's population.
Huh? The vast majority of modern Jews have DNA, which, by comparison to the DNA of the various populations of the Levant, verifies that at least a major portion of their ancestry is traceable to the ancient Israelites--or whatever name you prefer for them. The history of the ancient Jews or Israelites is hardly fictional, since they are referred to by both the Greeks and Romans.
And I suppose that you're also going to tell me that there wasn't massive support for Israel to be created there (instead of a relatively safe area that wasn't surrounded by well armed enemies) from christian and jewish groups based on biblical prophecy and some phony ass "covenant with god"? Damn, to think that I've gotten things so wrong?
The "Britons" always had a penchant for rewriting history, as evidenced by the very name they stole from the Celtic people whom the Anglo-Saxons marginalized and/or drove away when they helped themselves to the abandoned Roman colony on Britannia.

I'm sure they found some poetic justice in offering Palestine to the Jewish refugees, most of whom would much rather have gone back to their homes in Vienna, Prague, Berlin, Paris and Amsterdam, even if they had been reduced to bomb craters. After all, the Brits took it from the Ottomans as the spoils of war, and as far as they knew, nobody was living there... at least nobody important. Gen. MacArthur was desperate for a place to send the people he had been put in charge of, after watching the ones who tried to go back to their homes in Poland be shot down by the Poles. No one spoke up to offer Slovakia, Baja California, Cornwall, Kyushu, South Island or Idaho, so they got Palestine.

It was the last gasp of the moribund British Empire, a gigantic "fuck you" to the whole world, as they settled the Jews in a place where they were surrounded by Muslim people who hated them just as much as, or perhaps more than, the European Christians, and moreover where a tribe of those people were already living.
I honestly don't know, but as I understand it the jews were looking for a place where they could gather and live without facing the sort of discrimination they had in Europe and Russia, a place where they would be safe. If that was indeed what they were ultimately looking for then they got ripped off big time.
Until WWII, Zionism had never been a dominant religious or political philosophy among European Jews. It was the 19th century equivalent of the La Raza or Aztlán "movement" among young second-generation Latinos in the U.S. who spoke little or no Spanish, were well-assimilated Americans, and attended universities where they learned about a culture they'd never been part of. But when they found themselves living for months in "Displaced Person" camps with half of their population methodically slaughtered and no country--not even America--prepared to accept millions of them (the Haitians, bless their hearts, took in as many as would fit on their tiny impoverished island, for which Rev. Pat Robertson rewarded them by saying they deserved their earthquake), a shit-hole in the middle of the desert that had once been named "Judea" started to look pretty good.
How do you know they aren't the safest where they are now? They can cooperate for a common defense, which is known to be rather strong, as is their reputation for intelligence gathering.
The safest place the Jews ever lived was China, where a tribe wandered to after striking out in its own direction during the Diaspora. The Jews obeyed the law, valued education, paid their taxes, understood business, and observed personal and community hygiene, which made them first-class citizens in the eyes of the Chinese. Without the hostility they had become used to, they mingled freely among the Chinese, marrying them and ultimately disappearing through assimilation, leaving a few old synagogues and some Chinese people with unusually large noses as evidence of their existence.

This chapter in their history has not been lost on the leaders of today's Jewish communities. The elders of American Jewry--the second-safest place they've ever lived--complain in their community venues that something has to be done to keep their children from vanishing into the Melting Pot; that the biggest existential threat to the Jews as a people is assimilation.

Indeed, with every passing year the younger generation of American Jews speak out more stridently against the policies of Israel, distancing themselves from a Holocaust that is nothing but a newsreel to them and happily driving German cars. For several years now (IIRC this entire century if not longer), more disillusioned Israelis have emigrated to the USA than starry-eyed idealistic American Jews have packed up and moved to Israel. The net migration of American Jews to the "Holy Land" is, in stark fact, negative!
 
Yes, that is mirrored in my own family. I'm doing my best to assimilate too, or at least reject tradition. While I support people that want to preserve a certain culture, I think it's best to be a unique individual and transcend your programming.
 
My father's paternal grandparents were Jews in Europe, but when they landed in America they set about becoming unhyphenated Americans. His father had no bar mitzvah, could barely speak ten words of Yiddish, married an Episcopalian lady and joined her church. I didn't know what a Jew was, much less that Hitler would have gassed me for being one, until I was in college.
 
All the commonwealth countries are British protectorates at some time or another. The question is: who assigns the legality of such foreign occupiers on any land? Always it is the occupiers. The natives do not recognise the authority of foreign invaders except under coercion. Hence even though there is a United States, it has nothing to do with the rights of native Americans to live on their land and naturally they would resist any attempt to ethnically cleanse them. Similarly, the establishment of the nation of Australia does not supersede the rights of aboriginals who have been there since 40,000 years before that. There is some kind of strange mentality in those who colonise other lands that they are entitled to it because they believe that the people on whom they enforce occupation with might and power should accept it. It is the same kind of mentality that any thief possesses who enters your house with a gun and decides to hold the owners hostage and expects them to cave in.


About 2% of the land of the state of Israel was purchased by Jews. About 88% was owned by Arabs who were shot by the occupation militia if they attempted to return home. 10% of the land was mandate land which the "state" of Israel took over, even though the UN does not have the jurisdiction to hand over any property to immigrants. [source:The Jewish National Fund, from Jewish Villages in Israel, 1949]

If this was so then how come there are so many Palestinian in Israel .
What would you call the the Arab Jews were in 1973 the Arab Jews were over 60 % of the Jews in Israel , sense we are talking about Arabs would you not consider Palestine is there land also . After the establishment of Israel as a nation , Jews living in the Arab nation were persecuted , they had to migrate in order to have peace.




As to your original question, Jews returned to Palestine only recently because many of the biblical myths are of fairly recent origin. The word Jew first appeared in the New Testament in the eighteenth century. The religion of Judaism began to be confused with the Judean peoples of Judea about that time creating a kind of pseudo link between religion and geography. It is clear from both archaeology and history that the Jewish religion is based on myths

Should I believe there was a revolt in Palestain by Jews in the year 135 were Hadrian had to bring 6 legion from abroad to crush the rebellion and the circumcised were not allowed to live there ?



Modern mythology about Jews can be traced back to Heinrich Graetz and Simon Dubnow but modern Zionism can be traced back to Christian Imperialism and the desire to manipulate British policy in the Middle East

You should read Shlomo Sand's book, the Invention of the Jewish People, on the subject. It is kind of like the story of Netanyahu and his ring which he has repeated many times:

Sorry I don't give a damm about Natanyahu and his family

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My father's paternal grandparents were Jews in Europe, but when they landed in America they set about becoming unhyphenated Americans. His father had no bar mitzvah, could barely speak ten words of Yiddish, married an Episcopalian lady and joined her church. I didn't know what a Jew was, much less that Hitler would have gassed me for being one, until I was in college.

Just out of curiosity, did your grandparents come over at around the time of the holocaust, or earlier?

My grandparents on both sides came over in the early part of the 1900s, well before WWI, and never felt the need to assimilate. They were part of a large and well established Jewish community in NYC.
 
Fraggle Rocker
I'm sure they found some poetic justice in offering Palestine to the Jewish refugees, most of whom would much rather have gone back to their homes in Vienna, Prague, Berlin, Paris and Amsterdam, even if they had been reduced to bomb craters. After all, the Brits took it from the Ottomans as the spoils of war, and as far as they knew, nobody was living there... at least nobody important. Gen. MacArthur was desperate for a place to send the people he had been put in charge of, after watching the ones who tried to go back to their homes in Poland be shot down by the Poles. No one spoke up to offer Slovakia, Baja California, Cornwall, Kyushu, South Island or Idaho, so they got Palestine.


Why do you mention MacArthur, MacArthur was in the Pacific . Perhaps you mean Eisenhauer.

Uganda was an option on the table.
 
Just out of curiosity, did your grandparents come over at around the time of the holocaust, or earlier?

My grandparents on both sides came over in the early part of the 1900s, well before WWI, and never felt the need to assimilate. They were part of a large and well established Jewish community in NYC.

Originally Posted by Fraggle Rocker
My father's paternal grandparents were Jews in Europe, but when they landed in America they set about becoming unhyphenated Americans. His father had no bar mitzvah, could barely speak ten words of Yiddish, married an Episcopalian lady and joined her church. I didn't know what a Jew was, much less that Hitler would have gassed me for being one, until I was in college


I don't you could be a Jew if your mother was not a Jewish . Beside if you were not circumcised Hitler would not bother you
 
@Fraggle --

Excellent, I can trace my DNA all the way back to Africa, everyone can. So since I have "history" in Africa perhaps one of the various African countries could deed some land to me(something by the coast would be nice).

Or how about the fact that I'm directly descended from Irish royalty, maybe I should get Ireland to just give me some land(owning a castle would be pretty cool) that's already owned by someone else.

Being able to trace your genetic heritage to a certain area does not, at least in my mind, mean that ownership of that land can just be claimed, especially not without paying those who already own it.
 
I understand they used genealogical records found in temples and churches. The Nazi standard was rather more strict than the Jewish one...

The Nazi regime instituted laws discriminating against Jews and thus needed a working definition of who is a Jew.

In Germany itself, the Ahnenpass and Nuremberg Laws classified people as Jews if they descended from three or four Jewish grandparents. A person with one or two Jewish grandparents was a Mischling, a crossbreed, of "mixed blood". One could not become a non-Jew in the eyes of the government by becoming non-practicing, marrying outside the religion, or converting to Christianity. Only people with at least two of their grandparents of "German blood" could be German citizens.[80]

There were very few Karaites in Europe during the Nazi era; most lived in the region of Turkey, Greece, and the Crimea. Karaites were not considered Jewish for the purpose of the Holocaust extermination policy;[81] according to SS Obergruppenfuhrer Gottlob Berger, writing on 24 November 1944, discrimination against the Karaites had been prohibited due to their proximity to the Crimean Tatars, to whom Berger views the Karaites as being related. Nazis still retained hostility towards the Karaites, on grounds of their religion; and there were a number of small scale massacres of Karaites.

In German-occupied France an ordinance defined a Jew as an individual who belonged to the Jewish religion or who had more than two Jewish grandparents.[82]

The Vichy régime in southern France, defined a Jew as an individual with three Jewish grandparents or two grandparents if his/her spouse were Jewish. Richard Weisberg points out that this was a potentially broader classification than the one used in Occupied France, for example, a half-Jew not practising Judaism could not be a Jew under the Nazi dictate, but would be deemed one under the Vichy act if he/she had married a Jew.[82]{wikipedia}
 
I understand they used genealogical records found in temples and churches. The Nazi standard was rather more strict than the Jewish one...

The Nazi regime instituted laws discriminating against Jews and thus needed a working definition of who is a Jew.

In Germany itself, the Ahnenpass and Nuremberg Laws classified people as Jews if they descended from three or four Jewish grandparents. A person with one or two Jewish grandparents was a Mischling, a crossbreed, of "mixed blood". One could not become a non-Jew in the eyes of the government by becoming non-practicing, marrying outside the religion, or converting to Christianity. Only people with at least two of their grandparents of "German blood" could be German citizens.[80]

There were very few Karaites in Europe during the Nazi era; most lived in the region of Turkey, Greece, and the Crimea. Karaites were not considered Jewish for the purpose of the Holocaust extermination policy;[81] according to SS Obergruppenfuhrer Gottlob Berger, writing on 24 November 1944, discrimination against the Karaites had been prohibited due to their proximity to the Crimean Tatars, to whom Berger views the Karaites as being related. Nazis still retained hostility towards the Karaites, on grounds of their religion; and there were a number of small scale massacres of Karaites.

In German-occupied France an ordinance defined a Jew as an individual who belonged to the Jewish religion or who had more than two Jewish grandparents.[82]

The Vichy régime in southern France, defined a Jew as an individual with three Jewish grandparents or two grandparents if his/her spouse were Jewish. Richard Weisberg points out that this was a potentially broader classification than the one used in Occupied France, for example, a half-Jew not practising Judaism could not be a Jew under the Nazi dictate, but would be deemed one under the Vichy act if he/she had married a Jew.[82]{wikipedia}



Fact during the persecution in Poland, Ukraine Jews were escaping into the forests or other town were you were a stranger . To identify you the police or military ask you to drop your pants . I happen to many including my father.
Think who is going to bother sending paper from one town to an other , when dropping your pants it takes only a few minutes.
I will agree with you once you are in a ghetto surrounded with barb wires , then you can ask people for papers
 
Why a holocaust have to take place so that Jews were encouraged to return to Palestine, It have taken about 1800 of wandering and been pushed around
so the prophecy be fulfilled.

Has prophecy been fulfilled?

Many Jews have refused to go to Israel because they interpret prophecy to mean that God himself will gather the Jews out of the nations and take them back to Israel. zionism is seen as rebellion against God by these Jews.

Oh and you need both a carrot (the balfour declaration) and a stick (the holocaust) to motivate people to move when they are not co-operating with the plan.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Getting a bit off topic here.

Why did Jews not return to 'Palestine' earlier? Fraggle touches on it. Besides the random incidences of history, why would they go from one hostile population to another hostile population with new conditions of supremacy. They returned at the first date they possibly could with sufficient force to protect themselves. Nothing too surprising about it.
 
Actually, also, I apologize: stupid me. Adstar hits it also: the Holocaust was quite the impressive expression of the ancestral hatred. Zionism saw it as a gamble, but the most sensible one they could make: at what point do we all - Christians, Muslims - stop and evaluate exactly what it is we drove them to, where their cultural and national survival was reduced to a numbers game.
 
Also consider it took them 40 years to find their way out of the Sinai. Its pretty hard to get lost in a place that is so small

Sinai_Peninsula_map.jpg


That probably explains why they took the long road to Jerusalem
 
I suppose so. Marauding armies of reactionary zealots would probably find the exit points faster.
 
That explains how the Zealots made it then

Zealotry was originally a political movement in 1st century Second Temple Judaism which sought to incite the people of Iudaea Province to rebel against the Roman Empire and expel it from the Holy land by force of arms, most notably during the Great Jewish Revolt (66-70). Zealotry was described by Josephus as one of the "four sects" at this time. The zealots have been described as one of the first examples of the use of terrorism.

They didn't wander none, did they
 
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