Not for their religion, that's their own responsibility.
Do you piss off theists?
Why isn't faith embarrasing?
- Thread starter superluminal
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Not for their religion, that's their own responsibility.
Do you piss off theists?
Americans are crazy. I bet you atheists get together and bitch about the theists
Not at all. Almost all of my friends (yes, I have friends
) are theists. We have some interesting discussions at times, but it's rare it ever even comes up.
We like to call it our "Saturday night theist bashing club". Notice the clever part with the "club" in the title.
:mufc:There is the argument though.. Belief in sky fairies is accepted in society. When someone says he heard god speak to him everyone else cheers as if he's conquered time travel. You tell me then... who can't have it both ways?
I 'judge' peoples sanity all the time. Speaking honestly, how far do you think I would get if I were to classify insane those that claimed to have had discussion with mr sky guy? No double standards now, either you're all whackjobs or this dude really is there, does answer prayers, does give commands blah blah blah. Kindly do not go down the "he wouldn't say to kill anyone" route, the bible shows otherwise.
Ultimately though there is a difference between killing for a belief and killing for a lack of that belief. I'll discuss it if needed.
Nobody does when it comes to religious motivated murder. I'm quite certain I could have got that woman mentioned earlier free from any repurcussions. I would have argued Deut, (she got classified unfit). I would have said she was more than fit.. She followed gods order. As espoused by the bible she must succumb to earthly law but nobody can consider her insane by listening to god because that very same place judging her made her swear by that very same being before she gave her testimony. They can hardly argue that it's fiction.
Renowned men cannot be lunatics? Hell, I've seen people married for 30 odd years that turned out to be paedophiles while doing a whole lot of good in between. I also know that the England chess champion under 16, (at the time), believed in martians. What is the point?
Does the overwhelming majority of the world strike you as perfectly normal? Hell, your neighbour probably likes to get dressed up in nappies and get spanked. I'm sure you yourself have some "abnormal" activities that are best kept secret. So tell me, how do you define lunatic? At what stage do you think intervention is needed? I am guessing harm has something to do with it.. At least nappy man is safe I suppose..
Because it is ultimately hard to see. Honestly speaking, how many people do you know have gone out on a murder trip and stated: "I kill these people because of my lack of belief"?
You will find however that most people, atheist or not, will condemn crime regardless to who dunnit, (the reason why is another issue. ultimtely it brings into frame our own mortality).
Look, I think what is best is that you find me an atheist that killed that didn't happen to be a communist short of, (of course), typical murder that we are all capable of. There is absolutely no doubt that the inquisition was religiously motivated. There is absolutely no doubt that the crimes of Stalin were communistically motivated. Atheism can ultimately fit in both of them. The very christian inquisitors were atheist to Thor. Was the inquisition atheistically motivated because the perpetrators didn't believe in Thor? If so you'll find atheists are responsible for everything...
Forgive me, I do not see your point. If a woman wants to have silicon breasts and puke in toilets what is the problem?
Not at all. Almost all of my friends (yes, I have friends
Ah so its not ALL theists who treat you like crap.
But you bunch all of them together, even your friends.
How is making an observation that is relevant to this discussion "bunching" them together? Your implication is clear and I actually resent it.But you bunch all of them together, even your friends.
Seriously
Ok. Now that I've calmed down, you can clearly appreciate that it's a matter of population dynamics.Ah so its not ALL theists who treat you like crap.
But you bunch all of them together, even your friends.
Yeah, there is. Apparently, killing only matters when it's motivated by religion and/or faith; it is negligible when fueled by a lack of religion and/or faith.
I'm not arguing specifics here, and I'm certainly not going to argue whether or not the Bible demands such actions. Faith and religion isn't as narrowly-interpreted as Christianity alone.
So you're implying that there are no sane theists? I certainly hope not. Please do not misconstrue my words, as I never said renowned men cannot be lunatics - I said some of these so-called "lunatics" (as defined by your description of sandy) are world-renowned men who have contributed more to society and civilization than you could ever hope to muster.
You tell me. According to you, sandy is a lunatic. What makes her that way? Her religion and faith? If that is so, everyone who is religious/has faith is a lunatic. In that case, you're saying the overwhelming majority of people are "lunatics". See how ridiculous this argument is? Ultimately, you're saying that every human is a "lunatic" except for atheists.
How many people go out on a murder trip and state: "I kill these people because of my belief"? To the few that do, isn't it very likely that they're trying to lessen their punishment (you know, plead insanity, etc)?
Why can't it be a mix of both? Can't this be a grey issue? Maybe the communist regime and his lack of fear/belief both contributed equally to his atrocities. There are other mass-murdering atheists as well we can take examples from. Compressing them into one group and blaming all their crimes on "communism" is the easy way out.
The very christian inquisitors were atheist to Thor. Was the inquisition atheistically motivated because the perpetrators didn't believe in Thor? If so you'll find atheists are responsible for everything...
It doesn't matter if they were "atheist to Thor". They still believed in God, making them theist.
Of course it does...humans are humans. Unfortunately religion just excuses that which most of us don't have an excuse for. That woman that killed her children for example.. She couldn't just say: "Look, they were nasty little shits that intterrupted my TV program", no, the religion bought her an excuse: "god said". Ultimately who am I to argue? You guys have been telling me that "god said" for millennia, it would be hypocritical to change your mind, (especially with biblical backing), simply because she sounds a bit fruit loop.
Let's get it straight... I killed my brother because he's an obnoxious knobhead with the brain power of a sea sponge. Deal with it.
That's honesty right there. The minute someone says "god told me to", what do you have if not an excuse that has to work in the place that makes you swear on that very same being before you even take the stand?
Insecurity... You know, you've got 2 guys.. one of them has an 11 inch penis, the other has a 1 inch penis. The 11 inch penis man is free.. he shakes his tackle in public, bonks everything in sight, has a confidence that Mr 1 inch can never have. The 1 inch man can barely look a woman in the face when he makes love to her. Honestly speaking, you're going to ball bust Mr 1 inch because he gets an operation? Ok, maybe he can worship 300 in 1 gods and learn that material things such as penises are not worth shit, but really... would you deny, denigrate, punish and disrespect this guy on the basis that he needed something to make him a "real" man?
Is it ok as long as its a guy?
Thing is you're talking to me. I have uhh, I would say invented, and indeed spread to a degree my "3 word kill". I espouse that it takes only 3 words and you can literally annihilate anyone. Of course you need to know the person, you need to know what that hangup is. I actually tried it once of which my wife was witness. Let's just say the person, ( a young lady), literally changed overnight. Insecurity is a factor of every single human being in existence. Those insecurities make us the people we are. We try to remove them - be it via implant or religion. I am unsure if religion has a higher success rate than implant.
Of course not... god is.. apparently..
Except god, I assume?
Perhaps. It's amazing what a little island can accomplish don't you think? Btw, I wasn't pointing fingers, I was instructing you not to.
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In the case at issue, one religion replaced by what appears to be another, with the usual smashing of idols, etc.SAM said:
Some do, some don't appear to. Agriculturalists always do, obviously and without doubt.SAM said:
Irrelevant. The point was the disconnection between theistic religious belief and racism - presuming your experience with Saudis more truly reflects their approach than mine, which consists of tourists in America who speak quite disdainfully of blacks.SAM said:
My experience seems to indicate a positive correlation between theistic belief and racial prejudice. But I put it to coincidence, mechanism invisible.
Meanwhile, the parallel between lack of embarrassment in theistic beliefs - even of the odder and more extravagantly nonsensical types - and unembarrassed racism might be considered, since it has been introduced.
Not really but there is one pertinent issue you need to recognise...
This same guy, this very same person responsible also did not believe in astrology. Furthermore this person did not believe in martians. Funnily enough he also did not believe in invisible frozen yoghurt of planet thwoggleplop.
So... given that this man did not believe in many millions of things, how do you think you can blame him for not believing in one of those millions of things unless he said he killed specifically because of it?
For all its worth you might as well say Stalin killed because he wasn't an astrologer.
You tell me, I'm open..
Indeed. Give me another religious text and I shall show the same to be true.
I can tell this is a disaster waiting to happen. As a result of that I will ask you to define sane for me.
That's debateable, none of those men ever got the high score in Bubble Bobble.. I did. Alas of course contribution does not negate lunacy. Now look, Newton's a dude. Cool guy, bath time and all that. I have no issues with apples at all, but regardless to how many apples decided to do their autumn thing on his head, does that mean we have to accept what he says when he mentions invisible guys in the sky? I don't think so. Fuck, I could invent a time machine, (then you wont trample my name so), but it doesn't mean I don't believe in leprechauns. And what if I did? Would you label me insane even though I've just given you the ability to travel through time? Unlikely.. I'd get a medal. We even have a word for it..
That guy's an idiot..
No sir, that gu's eccentric.
Am I the only one to protest? No... he's not eccentric.. he is an idiot. No, doesn't mean he didn't invent faster than light travel.
Tell me.. Give me an example of another issue where Sandy would just accept what is said, claim to love the result, claim the result loves her, that she hears it, sees it, it's coming back for her... blah blah blah with anything else you can think of. Hell man this very same woman even seeks evidence for a simple cup of tea. She wont just throw the cup of tea down her throat with faith that its cool enough - and if she did you would be ahead of me in the "she's a lunatic" queue. But what, we allow it this time... why? Not even the most religious of you would give that precious "faith" the time of day if it came down to something 'real'.. like crossing the road. How many would do it other than zero? And yet what... what do they want from us? Some respect because they can close their eyes and jump in front of moving cars? Please.. And yet they will not abide by those same principles when it comes to something harmful. There is a small faction that do handle snakes and poison, but how many christians will actually do so even though their god said they can? None, that's who. Faith this, faith that.. when push comes to shove they're the very first to say: "man faith is a load of old bullshit" and demand evidence.
Faith in this regard is absolute lunacy. That I can't do anything about it merely reflects the problem after 2000 years of indoctrination. I urge you to experiment.. Inform your kids that mermaids exist. Have them kill anyone that doesn't believe it for a while and see what the outcome is in 2000 years time. Your grand..... kids will espouse the existence of mermaids even though the idea is, as far as we're concerned, complete idiocy. If they make up the larger portion of society and have done for a few millennia...who's to say they're mad?
Over *half the kids in India are sexually abused and yet I'm quite sure you wont hear the abusers admitting that they're lunatics.
* http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/75187/Sexual_Abuse_of_Indian_Children_Common_
Tell me, how many humans are, right at this second, having sexual relations with animals? These people vote. These people are "normal". This might be your bank manager, your teacher, your swimming instructor, the dude that babysits your kids.
Yes, everyone is a lunatic. How they're a lunatic is merely a matter of perspective.
Not at all. The atheist, along with the person that doesn't believe that there's life on Jupiter are in the same position.
Actually its quite popular... allahu akbar and all that.
Certainly possible. On what basis can you dismiss their claims?
Certainly. Might as well state that not one of them believe that aliens inhabited Jupiter either. Your argument means we should include that too. He... it can't be mere coincidence that no communist actually believes in trumpet blowing venusaurians.. that's why they killed people!
I take it they were all a-venusauriantrumpetblowers aswell? However, I am willing to take names. Shoot.
Yo my man that's freaky.. Considering the very point here is compressing a group of communists and saying their crimes are because of atheism. I'd add something else but I'm a nice guy.
Bah.. why do you people do that? Out of the available 1 million, how do you expect me to work out which one you're talking about when you say "god"? That elephant dude the Indians believe in? Man be specific...
If we're just talking "god".. some indefinable term that people say even when they drop their cornflakes.. then I ask you who gives a shit. Some unknown entity that farted the universe into existence blah blah who cares? If you want to get specific that's a different issue. You can assert that some hippy jew is 3 parts of 1 god in 3 who is one who is 3 and dead and alive and sacrificed while being unkillable exists or some entity that looks like an elephant or a tiger or a vulture, or some being that honestly cares what humans do with their penises or some entity that will give you a wonderful life part 2 as long as you're not a homo then it must be stated that everyone is an atheist. That they cater for their own brand of idiocy changes nothing. That goes for ultimate atheists as well.. I am sure there are some that give some credence to tarot, or star signs, or using the heads side of a coin when scratching a lottery card. It is idiocy. It always has been and it always will be. That's not to say it isn't true.. damn, Odin might appear in the next 30 seconds and smite my drunk being where I sit. Being wrong is acceptable, hell I welcome it. Believing something is true for the mere sake of it is plain lunacy.
To address the question the topic asks....... it is very confusing why it isn't.
On another political thread, some posters were savaging Kucinich because he claims to have seen a UFO. An unidentified object in the sky..... the man is crucified for claiming he saw something he can't explain. Going even further, there's a mountain of evidence showing there have been real objects flying in our skies for decades, yet anyone who claims to have seen one, is ridiculed to no end. Even when there are many credible multiple witnesses, photo's, video, ground radar, air radar to back up the sighting........ yet the public still scoffs at it. Can you say Programmed........? Sure you can.
Yet...... this issue related to religious "Faith". There is zero evidence of any kind.... outside of an old book. Still, the majority of the public claims to be true believers........ what gives? More Programming....? Most assuredly so. But it has to be so much more than that..... doesn't it? Mass Psychosis? Of course.
Pinning the two subjects together, there is no doubt that there is a human NEED to be accepted. To be part of a majority. To believe what others believe, and what you're TOLD to believe.
On another political thread, some posters were savaging Kucinich because he claims to have seen a UFO. An unidentified object in the sky..... the man is crucified for claiming he saw something he can't explain. Going even further, there's a mountain of evidence showing there have been real objects flying in our skies for decades, yet anyone who claims to have seen one, is ridiculed to no end. Even when there are many credible multiple witnesses, photo's, video, ground radar, air radar to back up the sighting........ yet the public still scoffs at it. Can you say Programmed........? Sure you can.
Yet...... this issue related to religious "Faith". There is zero evidence of any kind.... outside of an old book. Still, the majority of the public claims to be true believers........ what gives? More Programming....? Most assuredly so. But it has to be so much more than that..... doesn't it? Mass Psychosis? Of course.
Pinning the two subjects together, there is no doubt that there is a human NEED to be accepted. To be part of a majority. To believe what others believe, and what you're TOLD to believe.
Incriminating Convoy
Registered Member
Is there a logical reason for why faith should be embarrassing? Most people take faith extremely serious. Whether it be through the faith of ones religion or ones science. Faith is something we should all embrace and consider a hugging moment in our society. Even though all of our faiths are different we shouldn't judge each other upon faith. FAITH IS GOOD.
Plenty. And theists know this, hence why religion has blasphemy laws.
Incriminating Convoy
Registered Member
I seem not to be able to grasp the ideology of faith being embarrassing. And it seems that from your post Kenny that atheists don't have faith? So they obviously don't have blasphemy laws.
Also known as the Age of Two World Wars, the Age of Structural Adjustment Policies and the Age of the Atomic Bombing of Two Civilian Cities, the Age of Communist Genocide, the Age of the Holocaust, the Age of Forced Sterilisation of Unworthy Peoples and the Age of Eugenics and the Age of Global Arms Trade and War on Terror.
Is that what you mean?
You can prove anything you want to if you simply pick the bits that suit your argument. As we all know , there were no problems in the world before people began to think for themselvers. Didn't the Pope invite Gallileo over for a beer ? And weren't the Holy Inquisition only doing god's work ? And didn't Muslims and Jews only start stoning innocent people after the Age of Reason?
Need I go on ?
You have put your finger on it to a large extent. That's why pastor's (shepherds) often refer to followers as their flock (sheep)
Just underlining the high points of the "Age of Reason"