What about the so-called "religious" folks who commit atrocities that are contradictory to their religion? Isn't that the same argument as "Stalin's crimes are not the byproduct of his lack of faith"? How many theists on this forum practice some of your examples of religiously motivated wrongoings ("inquisition, the crusades, the reconquista, the troubles in Northern Ireland, the French wars of religion, jihad, 30 years war")?
Why isn't faith embarrasing?
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What about the so-called "religious" folks who commit atrocities that are contradictory to their religion? Isn't that the same argument as "Stalin's crimes are not the byproduct of his lack of faith"? How many theists on this forum practice some of your examples of religiously motivated wrongoings ("inquisition, the crusades, the reconquista, the troubles in Northern Ireland, the French wars of religion, jihad, 30 years war")?
Well let's look at it...
So I know a guy.. he considers chess the greatest thing in existence, (he doesnt get out much). He kills lots of people.
My job is to ascertain why he killed people.
I could say the chess did it, (it's probably been used in court once or twice). The thing is... I'm going to be honest with you..
The guy was nuts.
Want me to blame him because he was a chess player, or more importantly.. a christian?
When was the last time an atheist threatened you with eternal burning and had an almost sadistic smile on his face when he said it?
Thing with me is I could not and would not worship an entity that burns humans for eternity, absolutely regardless to crime. These people revel in it. They actually long for the day when jebus comes back and destroys the earth. They long for the day when people that have done nothing but disbelieve are burning. I can't say I've ever been set on fire.. I, like most, have burnt myself slightly once or twice. These theists here actually look forward to the time when people like me are burning forever.
The difference is that I would beat the ever living crap out of their god, (or at least try), if it dared send them to a pit of fire. These people want me to be there. Sometimes wrongdoing isn't physical.
So in times of uncertainty, it's okay to say religion is responsible for motivating crime, yet atheism is not? Where's the balance in that?
If it doesn't exist, then why should you take it as a threat? Besides, I'm more offended by atheists ridiculing others' beliefs than theists claiming I have the wrong religion.
Totally off topic. If you don't want to believe in God: DON'T!
EDIT: 1000th post. Cool.
Once you're done responding to my post :bugeye: (If the husband is home and you can't talk just wink or something)...
Kindly share it with us. I am sure this person will forgive you, (if he's christian), will get over it, (if he's atheist), or wont know what to do, (if hes agnostic).
As for your post:
atheists in power != theists in power makes as much sense as anything else I hear on evangelical TV 101.
You'll have to take my word for it. Or not.
To be fair, said atheist did apologise immediately when I made it public. Whether it was the making it public that got to said atheist or sincere contrition is between said atheist and the IPU.
Since I am an urban Indian Muslim woman, none of your rant applies to me, like the communist does not apply to you. Besides, the way I see it, all the stuff your Western women are doing today (in between puking in the toilets and propping up their breasts with silicon to assert their independence), us Muslim women have taken for granted much longer. :shrug:
You know, the voting, the property rights, the right to divorce, remarry, dump the unimaginatively sexless creature snoring in the bed, getting custody of the kids etc.
Now if you are gonna compare the uneducated illiterate ones from my society to the educated literate ones from yours, well I had a woman Prime Minister, a Muslim President, a Dalit President and a Dalit Prime Minister.
Amen.
Muahahahaha
1. So one religious system is replaced by another religion like system?
2. Nomads have no religion?
3. What if they are not suburban white people?
4. Are fervently religious people more religious; does fervent religiosity show sincere belief?
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In times of uncertainty? Not really. If a man says: "I am killing you because you believe in chess" then you know he's killing you in the name of achessism. Likewise if a guy goes about slaughtering someone in the name of christianity, in the name of god, in the name of deities he believes in then yes... religion is responsible.
Don't get me wrong my friend, as a qualified professional I would be the absolute first to say that these people are all mental whackjobs. Here's the unfortunate part....
The mass majority of people espouse that when someone claims to talk to invisible sky beings that thet really are talking to invisible sky beings. When someone says they're asking these invisible sky beings for a favour, that sky being really does do them a favour. Who's fault is it?
Some dude says he's the reincarnated form of Einstein. You send him to me, I lock him up, the world sleeps better. Same guy comes along says he talks to an invisible thingy and you say he's Mr. Sane himself. But wait.. the same guy eventually batters someones head in.. Oh wait.. he was talking shit after all.
Make up your damn mind. I am being held back by 2 billion idiots.
I remember the issue a few years back about the woman who stoned her kids to death. It was the theists first and foremost saying she was a nutjob. So I asked how they knew it wasn't really god to which they stated god would never demand such a thing.
As a result of that I was forced to quote Deuteronomy which shows god clearly commanding people to stone their naughty sons to death.
And then they whine.. "the bible is bollocks!" they shout, "the OT is just a guide!" they exclaim. Strange, 2 minutes ago it was absolute reality.
Look, I will encourage the authorities to take Sandy in. We all know she is a lunatic. But no see.. they wont do it. Society accepts and allows these people to roam free. It is, (as is generally the case), only when they do harm that anyone realises it's all bollocks. Everything they've ever said is meaningless.. god.. pffft, they were pretending. Then what happens is all their brethren, all those that 10 minutes ago would have given their lives in defence of this persons honesty claim the guy never really was a christian, was possessed by demons, it was a test blah blah blah. I'd have them all locked up if twats wouldn't turn a blind eye to their idiocy.
The point is.. Religion will not accept the responsibility for these people. They're not christians, religion didn't make them this way, they're just mad. And yet these very same people want to blame all of atheism for the crimes of those that also happened to play tennis on Tuesdays.
Whatever.
Good good, maybe you're starting to understand the point. Perhaps I shall see no more Stalin/Mao nonsense from you.
Look, I'm just a regular, normal everyday guy. Woman wear burkas or puke or use dildos or wash dishes.. frankly I don't give a shit. The importance is 'freedom'.
*
However it is inconsequential as long as you ultimately recognise that men are above you. god is a man, he created men - you women popped along later for our pleasure. You clean our dishes and you are vessels for our children. That's as far as it goes from a religious perspective.
*note the sexism is to make a point. <-- That is secularism. We notice the fault with the statement. Ultimately religion still lives by that which the rest of us knew was wrong a long time ago. And here's the thing.. the day religion asknowledges that is the day it renounces its own god. Thus is the inherent problem with living by ancient manuscripts.
Umm... I'm English, we had arguably the greatest female prime minister: Maggie.
Is it possible that Stalin thought: nobody can jail me (meaning I'm not subject to the law), and there is no afterlife or punishment for my crimes here on Earth after death. Could these thoughts be responsible for his actions? If he knew that he couldn't face punishment on Earth or the hereafter, he likely had no fear in doing anything. It can be argued atheism was responsible for his actions. If you cannot accept that, then you cannot say religion can be responsible for similar predicaments. There are no double-standards here. If madmen happen to be Christian, and you blame their faith for it, then you must blame madmen who lack faith for the same wrongdoings.
I have no interest in discussing the Bible, and Christians who only follow half of it.
Is sandy's belief in God what makes her a "lunatic"? Of course not. If that were the case, then many renowned men would be lunatics; the overwhelming majority of the world would be "lunatics". If you ask me, it's sandy's political and world views that make her a lunatic - not her faith.
I suppose this applies to atheism as well. Why don't atheist clubs (and you know there are tons) condemn and denounce crimes committed by atheists? If they refuse to do so, and say the subject's lack of faith was not responsible for any of his/her wrongdoings, then why aren't people who have faith entitled to the same right?
Muahahahaha
I'll catch up. Eventually.
(to the rousing accolade of secular women with silicon breasts puking in toilets)
uke: uke: uke:
Only as long as it goes both ways.
Freedom to puke and wear silicone breasts. hmm, so you're saying that they choose to identify themselves by their body shapes? Their insecurities are a normal expression of their positive self image?
I'm not responsible for your western morality. Or Saudi morality, or whatever.
Any man who thinks he is 'above' me better be prepared for a dressing down.
If you're English you should be ashamed of yourself for pointing fingers. You idiots are arguably the cause of all the conflicts in the world today.
Nope. No more or less than anyone else.
In practical matters of everyday life and work? Nothing. This is the fundamental conundrum I face when attempting to ferret out the dichotomy inherent in theistic thinking.
A far more reasoned, just, and compassionate approach to allpeople. I believe that minimizing the mystical thinking modes that characterize theistics can only result in less bigotry and racism.
This can't be analyzed on an individual by individual basis. This is a group phenomenon.
You see a far more reasoned and compassionate approach from atheists as compared to theists?
I'm sorry to say that this has never been my experience. All the atheists I have met are cynical to a degree, have far less tolerance and are more self absorbed and constantly whine about problems.
And I also find it interesting that you think the problem lies in the duality of theistic thought, rather than a limitation of yours.
Really? We must have encountered two distinct and isolated subspecies of theist and atheist in out travels.
Sam,
I've seen (and been the target of) theists, from fundamentalists to "moderates" who hold me in the highest of distain and tell me so to my face. I've been shunned by theists at work who found out I was an atheist (they asked, I didn't offer it). I've never seen an atheist give a crap about anothers personal beliefs. (remember, this is a forum where we are exploring ideas, not portraying our "real life" behavior).
In real life, It's taken me some time to learn who the (few) atheists were at any given place of work, while I knew very quickly by-and-large who the theists were, by their own excitement at the fact (how righteous they were...).
No sam, unless confronted by a theist or a theistic debate, the atheists I know are pretty humble and usually shy about the whole thing.
I've seen (and been the target of) theists, from fundamentalists to "moderates" who hold me in the highest of distain and tell me so to my face. I've been shunned by theists at work who found out I was an atheist (they asked, I didn't offer it). I've never seen an atheist give a crap about anothers personal beliefs. (remember, this is a forum where we are exploring ideas, not portraying our "real life" behavior).
In real life, It's taken me some time to learn who the (few) atheists were at any given place of work, while I knew very quickly by-and-large who the theists were, by their own excitement at the fact (how righteous they were...).
No sam, unless confronted by a theist or a theistic debate, the atheists I know are pretty humble and usually shy about the whole thing.
Ya picks yer friends...I wonder why?