Why I'm not a vegetarian
- Thread starter Orleander
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Creeptology
Registered Member
Meat for protein blah blah is misconception, meat isn't best, egg is. I hate the meat protein thing it's bollocks. I know this because my degree was in biochemistry and I studied protein availability and composition in food funny enough. If you have completed research on a new type of meat, can back up your results, and others can reproduce those results then I take my egg is best statement back.
Since this is a science board this is the only way to disprove truth. Speculation from uneducated people about whether meat or veg is this or that has no bearing on the actual reality. I don't care what wiki thinks either, a large % of it is trash and misinfo hence you can't use it in academia reference.
The actual essential amino acid composition, and how easy they are to utilise (ie process and absorb from the food) is what determines it's rating. Egg contains all essential amino acids and they are readily available and rates at 100 (max).
Quorn is not too far behind (just the fungal hyphae) but is bumped up to low to mid 90s as the hyphae strands are bound with eggwhite. It is loaded with RNA as it's myco origin but they bombard it with UV light so it's not unhealthy when processed. Quorn however is trademarked (they tm'd the fungus so no-one else can grow it and they discovered it). Soy and seitan (gluten) and pea protein products make up the rest of the veggie meat alternatives and contrary to what some eggies think are NOT a different brand of the same stuff.
After that is fish, some times anyway. Not bottom feeders like cod but fish like salmon. They weigh in around the 70s to 80s. Fish is meat despite what catholics say on good friday, as my brother informed my parents when he ate hotdogs on good friday (deliberate to piss 'em off I suspect) "fish is meat and you eat fish so I can eat hotdogs". The reply was something about fish not being meat and vegetarians eat it (I informed they don't thats pescatarians), my bro finished the argument off with the classy retort "oh sorry yeah fish those well known vegetables that grow on plants". An argument ensued because they couldn't argue back, reason went out the window and blind faith took over.
Then comes other meat. White meat, poultry etc is around 60 (naturally unprocessed, this doesn't apply to Bernard Matthews chicken drummers, they are mostly scrapie I suspect). Beef of the best quality around 40 to 50 on average, pork even lower.
Soy is round about the 40 mark but is LOADED with glycine (hence it's latin name). It's notoriously difficult to utilise too. Tempeh might be an exception, miso definately is easier to utilise though (due to A. oryzae treatment). As for seitan it's a bitch to process, it's just pure gluten, made from wheat flour with the starch washed out. Not good for allergies and other things (I LOVE it though, tastes awesome fried, would eat it even if wasn't vegetarian).
Don't try living on eggs alone though or you will get cholesterol poisoning (no not really before someone points out thats crap, it's a hitchhikers guide to the galaxy ref).
Since this is a science board this is the only way to disprove truth. Speculation from uneducated people about whether meat or veg is this or that has no bearing on the actual reality. I don't care what wiki thinks either, a large % of it is trash and misinfo hence you can't use it in academia reference.
The actual essential amino acid composition, and how easy they are to utilise (ie process and absorb from the food) is what determines it's rating. Egg contains all essential amino acids and they are readily available and rates at 100 (max).
Quorn is not too far behind (just the fungal hyphae) but is bumped up to low to mid 90s as the hyphae strands are bound with eggwhite. It is loaded with RNA as it's myco origin but they bombard it with UV light so it's not unhealthy when processed. Quorn however is trademarked (they tm'd the fungus so no-one else can grow it and they discovered it). Soy and seitan (gluten) and pea protein products make up the rest of the veggie meat alternatives and contrary to what some eggies think are NOT a different brand of the same stuff.
After that is fish, some times anyway. Not bottom feeders like cod but fish like salmon. They weigh in around the 70s to 80s. Fish is meat despite what catholics say on good friday, as my brother informed my parents when he ate hotdogs on good friday (deliberate to piss 'em off I suspect) "fish is meat and you eat fish so I can eat hotdogs". The reply was something about fish not being meat and vegetarians eat it (I informed they don't thats pescatarians), my bro finished the argument off with the classy retort "oh sorry yeah fish those well known vegetables that grow on plants". An argument ensued because they couldn't argue back, reason went out the window and blind faith took over.
Then comes other meat. White meat, poultry etc is around 60 (naturally unprocessed, this doesn't apply to Bernard Matthews chicken drummers, they are mostly scrapie I suspect). Beef of the best quality around 40 to 50 on average, pork even lower.
Soy is round about the 40 mark but is LOADED with glycine (hence it's latin name). It's notoriously difficult to utilise too. Tempeh might be an exception, miso definately is easier to utilise though (due to A. oryzae treatment). As for seitan it's a bitch to process, it's just pure gluten, made from wheat flour with the starch washed out. Not good for allergies and other things (I LOVE it though, tastes awesome fried, would eat it even if wasn't vegetarian).
Don't try living on eggs alone though or you will get cholesterol poisoning (no not really before someone points out thats crap, it's a hitchhikers guide to the galaxy ref).
Creeptology
Registered Member
as for most that processed meat you eat it's just off cuts of various meat and a lot of fats filled with BHT/BHA to stop them going rancid. Then coloured to disguise them visually and loaded with flavour and MSG to make it taste good. I am vegetarian (used to be vegan years ago) but it's not for everyone I agree. Some people just have too much attachment to the taste of meat, thats their choice. What I would say is if you eat meat don't eat crap. Buy good meat that's not processed. Stuff with good % ratio of named meat, eg overall 70%meat content includes other types of meat and offal so the 70% meat content beef burgers is not 70%beef. It's chicken, pork and other scraps and offal bumping up the beef. Laws from country to country vary on what % they can get away with. So your 70% beef burgers may only be 45% beef and that 45% is not made up of prime cuts as the packet would like you to believe. If that stuff wont rot your brain then I don't know what will. Booko you are fine with soylent green, it's 100% homeless person.
Vegetarianism is a healthy choice if you KNOW what you are eating and understand about eating the right things the right way (don't mean with a knife and fork, like protein combining or whatever). It is easy to get sick if you are not very knowledgeable when it comes to vegan vegetarian AND meat diets. It's more about healthy eating vs unhealthy. As for weak and scrawny vegetarian image: I have been vegetarian since my teens, I am 6 foot 4 inches, weight 15 stone, I am healthy and not scrawny or weak.
Some extreme vegetarians who don't understand facts spout rubbish and help propagate these myths that are shot down on flames by anyone with half a brain. Stuff about soya contains everything we need, or you can live off algae, water and crushed stones. Vegetarianism doesn't "make" people into nutters, the same way meat doesn't make them nutters.
Vegetarianism is a healthy choice if you KNOW what you are eating and understand about eating the right things the right way (don't mean with a knife and fork, like protein combining or whatever). It is easy to get sick if you are not very knowledgeable when it comes to vegan vegetarian AND meat diets. It's more about healthy eating vs unhealthy. As for weak and scrawny vegetarian image: I have been vegetarian since my teens, I am 6 foot 4 inches, weight 15 stone, I am healthy and not scrawny or weak.
Some extreme vegetarians who don't understand facts spout rubbish and help propagate these myths that are shot down on flames by anyone with half a brain. Stuff about soya contains everything we need, or you can live off algae, water and crushed stones. Vegetarianism doesn't "make" people into nutters, the same way meat doesn't make them nutters.
Creeptology
Registered Member
WTF lucifer, you post on a science board with no knowledge of species finding a balance in numbers naturally. Read any basic ecology book. The only time it goes wrong is introduction of species with no natural predators (as Australians do so well) but even they find a balance.
Secondly you are flawed since we BRED them in the first place to kill and eat so if we didn't eat them they wouldn't be there to need culling.
You sure I won't have problems from the homeless drug users? Flashbacks or something?
Very true. You can get sick fast becoming a vegetarian if you don't know how to get enough protein in your diet.
In my case it's a bit tough anyway since I can't eat soy or dairy, and most vegtarian foods in this country lean heavily on those sources.
But the people of India have figured this out long ago, so if I'm looking for a vegetarian dish I can eat, that's where I typically look first.
Or somehow we can't digest the protein from meat?
Uh, if that were so, there would be a LOT of dead people littering the world, because there are lots of people who get almost all their protein from animal sources.
Haha, I love the one about soya contains everything we need. My usual reply: Great, when I die from the food allergy to soy, you can pay for my funeral.
Your point is well taken, Creeptology. My hunting experiences have been limited to keeping herbivore populations down after the natural predators had been eliminated. Well, that's not so tough to solve.
Oh yes, I know about the Aussies problems with rabbits, cane toads and feral cats. Messy, that.
Where I live, we think kudzu and bamboo are bad.
A lot of them would just die straightaway if we let them loose. Domestic ducks are bred for more weight and couldn't escape the neighbors dog or a stray racoon if they tried because they can't get off the ground worth a bean.
I know..I've lost the ones that weren't in a secure pen overnight when the predators go roaming.
Creeptology
Registered Member
Nah I reckon it's safe to eat soylent green, surely they filter that stuff out these days.
It's strange but most people who argue for or against vegetarianism/veganism don't seem to have good arguments when there are great ones. I know there are some amazing irrefutable logical reasons from the pro veggie side concerning the usual questions fired off at us but it's rare to hear them.
The we can't digest meat thing is great hahahahaa. I like the elephants eat plants and they are big and strong reasons, it's all good until someone states the obvious "yeah but you ain't an olifont mr frodo". What can you say? Well actually I look human but have the internal workings of an elephant? Or people argue back that big wildcats like lions eat meat and they are strong too, again unless you are fucking liono lord of the thundercats it's very flawed argument.
Hey booko I like your posts and reasons so don't die from soy or I will resurrect you and kill you again for it Seriously though deep fried tofu is the best even if it is nasty. Miso is ok though hence macros eat it when tofu and other soy is on the not ever list, I recommend anyone here try fresh genmai miso and deny it's delicious. Good brand in UK is the live koji culture Sanchi brand stuff (not dried, the paste).
Also what is the I can't eat vegetables or veggi things i eat meat argument about? Plenty of people in Japan eat tofu but are not vegetarian. I have a friend in Tokyo who said it's hard to avoid fish there, still they have many vegetarian foods but they are not considered vegetarian only. If I started eating meat again today i still would eat paneer, seitan, tofu, lentil or other bean dishes. In fact my diet is more varied and tasty since I became Veggie scum. Before when I ate meat I wouldn't haved dreamed of so many flavours and foodsuffs. Me and my wife get stopped a lot when we shop at local supermarket whilst the person on the till (register clerk for US readers ) asks us what the hell various veg is. They work there but never seen that or anyone buy it. If it's not busy they make us tell exactly what it taste like and how we recommend preparing it. They then get ideas and say they think about trying that. I am sure they never do but it's both amusing and embarrassing at the same time. So before the "yeah but isn't it boring not eating meat" starts most us veggies here can name ingredients we eat weekly that you never heard of.
Lets take sides and have a war, yeahhhhhh. In your face meat eaters. Only joking, I don't care if you eat meat it's your choice.
It's strange but most people who argue for or against vegetarianism/veganism don't seem to have good arguments when there are great ones. I know there are some amazing irrefutable logical reasons from the pro veggie side concerning the usual questions fired off at us but it's rare to hear them.
The we can't digest meat thing is great hahahahaa. I like the elephants eat plants and they are big and strong reasons, it's all good until someone states the obvious "yeah but you ain't an olifont mr frodo". What can you say? Well actually I look human but have the internal workings of an elephant? Or people argue back that big wildcats like lions eat meat and they are strong too, again unless you are fucking liono lord of the thundercats it's very flawed argument.
Hey booko I like your posts and reasons so don't die from soy or I will resurrect you and kill you again for it
Seriously though deep fried tofu is the best even if it is nasty. Miso is ok though hence macros eat it when tofu and other soy is on the not ever list, I recommend anyone here try fresh genmai miso and deny it's delicious. Good brand in UK is the live koji culture Sanchi brand stuff (not dried, the paste).Also what is the I can't eat vegetables or veggi things i eat meat argument about? Plenty of people in Japan eat tofu but are not vegetarian. I have a friend in Tokyo who said it's hard to avoid fish there, still they have many vegetarian foods but they are not considered vegetarian only. If I started eating meat again today i still would eat paneer, seitan, tofu, lentil or other bean dishes. In fact my diet is more varied and tasty since I became Veggie scum. Before when I ate meat I wouldn't haved dreamed of so many flavours and foodsuffs. Me and my wife get stopped a lot when we shop at local supermarket whilst the person on the till (register clerk for US readers
) asks us what the hell various veg is. They work there but never seen that or anyone buy it. If it's not busy they make us tell exactly what it taste like and how we recommend preparing it. They then get ideas and say they think about trying that. I am sure they never do but it's both amusing and embarrassing at the same time. So before the "yeah but isn't it boring not eating meat" starts most us veggies here can name ingredients we eat weekly that you never heard of.Lets take sides and have a war, yeahhhhhh. In your face meat eaters. Only joking, I don't care if you eat meat it's your choice.
Well, that puts that to bed, tucks it in and kisses it goodnight.
Just to add salt to the rancid wound of meat. most of the processed meat sold is AT LEAST 5 years old. The meat that's on your plate is not killed and delivered to supermarkets, or the local butchers for a very long time.
There are also arguments stating we are omnivores. Human physiology is not carniverous, or omniverous. It is herbiverous. The intestinal tract of a human is not short like that of carnivores in the wild. It is long to allow for digestion of plant materials. The stomach acid is pH of 4 to 5 with food in stomach, that of carnivores and omnivores is around, or less than pH of 1 with food in stomach. Teeth and jaw motion of carnivores and omnivores are short and pointed, and move minimally. Humans and herbivores share no shear; side-to-side, front-to-back movements and broad, flattened, and square-shaped teeth. Humans have flattened nails, as do herbivores. Omnivores and carnivores have sharp claws. Herbivores rely on their vitamin C sources purely from their diets alone, whereas carnivores make it internally. Humans do not make their own vitamin C and rely solely on diet, just as the herbivore does. Positioning of the eyes are that of herbivores the erect carriage suits us for running from potential prey.
Soylent green, but eetz just uh waffer sin meent.
Just to add salt to the rancid wound of meat. most of the processed meat sold is AT LEAST 5 years old. The meat that's on your plate is not killed and delivered to supermarkets, or the local butchers for a very long time.
There are also arguments stating we are omnivores. Human physiology is not carniverous, or omniverous. It is herbiverous. The intestinal tract of a human is not short like that of carnivores in the wild. It is long to allow for digestion of plant materials. The stomach acid is pH of 4 to 5 with food in stomach, that of carnivores and omnivores is around, or less than pH of 1 with food in stomach. Teeth and jaw motion of carnivores and omnivores are short and pointed, and move minimally. Humans and herbivores share no shear; side-to-side, front-to-back movements and broad, flattened, and square-shaped teeth. Humans have flattened nails, as do herbivores. Omnivores and carnivores have sharp claws. Herbivores rely on their vitamin C sources purely from their diets alone, whereas carnivores make it internally. Humans do not make their own vitamin C and rely solely on diet, just as the herbivore does. Positioning of the eyes are that of herbivores the erect carriage suits us for running from potential prey.
Soylent green, but eetz just uh waffer sin meent.
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well, that's just the stupidest thing I have ever read :crazy:
Creeptology
Registered Member
Urmmm no most meat is actually frozen for 8 to 11 years average, 5 is young. It's well documented fact. I am speaking about UK, USA might differ but it's certainly not fresh (kosher shop might be the exception here). If you do a little research you will find most beef in particular is frozen for long periods. Hence the UK BSE scare recalled meat frozen years before, it was well documented in news. You think large scale factory farming can deliver fresh meat in such quantities to all those meat product food makers without such a frozen store then thats the "stupidest thing I have read".
Only way to ensure fresh meat is go to a local butchers and check their source. Most supermarket product is made from fresh beef I agree, just fresh beef frozen for years hehehe.
Only way to ensure fresh meat is go to a local butchers and check their source. Most supermarket product is made from fresh beef I agree, just fresh beef frozen for years hehehe.
Not here in the US. Its why there are expiration dates on bologna/hot dogs and why meat gets marked down. The only meat I can think of that's 5 yrs old is stuff that was at the bottom of my grandma's freezer.
Creeptology
Registered Member
No the fresh stuff is made from frozen meat. USA might not be as bad I don't know but guess they still do it I believe. It's wrong the way they mislead, they should tell the truth. It's safe-ish still as is stored in commercial freezers not domestic. I don't mean to be funny over this as not that many people are aware of the fact, I just hate to break it to ya this way but chances are unless you get it from a butchers it probably still ain't so fresh.
As for british sausages, even meat eaters wont touch them hahahaha. There is a reason they are banned in europe because the quality is so low. Had a friend who working a a sheffield sausage factory, oh the tales!
As for british sausages, even meat eaters wont touch them hahahaha. There is a reason they are banned in europe because the quality is so low. Had a friend who working a a sheffield sausage factory, oh the tales!
Meat stored for years? I don't think so. Who would want to pay the massive expense of city block sized freezers required to store the millions of sides of beef? It's much cheaper just to deliver the meat straight to market.
Creeptology
Registered Member
technically they can't put hooves, hide, hair or bone into hotdogs and the like. They can add the bones and hooves ground up to the meat content after processing as a binding agent though. That leaves the hide which goes to the tanning and clothing industry etc. Some products have better laws on what can go in, an some countries are not so bad with certain foods. UK is bad for some but US and canada is bad in other areas too. Hotdogs are usually always bad. They often have nitrites and nitrate preservatives in too, which as you probably know are linked to high incidence of stomach cancer and are implemented in formation of carcinogenic ring structures in the body.
If you want good meat buy it fresh. I knew this in my early teens and used to eat meat then. I actually claimed they were "efficient and less wasteful" when people asked how I could eat them and didn't I know what was in them. On a side note you know how they make the skin on "skinless" hotdogs? They dip them in hot and cold water alternately, interesting but sad wasteful fact for the day (might save your life that info hahahaha).
Honestly MacGyver, UK is notorious for it since BSE scares it went public knowledge. Apparently the USA do but use more fresh too.
If you want good meat buy it fresh. I knew this in my early teens and used to eat meat then. I actually claimed they were "efficient and less wasteful" when people asked how I could eat them and didn't I know what was in them. On a side note you know how they make the skin on "skinless" hotdogs? They dip them in hot and cold water alternately, interesting but sad wasteful fact for the day (might save your life that info hahahaha).
Honestly MacGyver, UK is notorious for it since BSE scares it went public knowledge. Apparently the USA do but use more fresh too.
I'm not sure about the UK, but here in Texas, the meat you buy at the supermarket was eating grass a few days ago...but this is the heart of cattle country.
Creeptology
Registered Member
I actually don't have a problem with meat eaters. I can't stand vegetarians who go on about morals and wear t-shirts like meat is murder. Isn't it immoral to ram your views down other peoples throats when they are happy eating something. If you don't want to eat meat then fine, just don't try and make everyone else stop. People talk about Hitler being vegetarian, well moby is almost as bad. Real preachy in your face, makes me want to meet him (pun intended) and pretend I love eating meat just to rile him up.
I do have a problem with the industry misleading it's customers though, thats not right. People should be able to choose what they are eating actually knowing the facts. Same with GM, if people want to modify crops then fine. I just want a choice about eating it or not and to see actual info on what has been done to it. The removal of enzyme to break down pectin in tomato cell walls is good one but got boycotted and discontinued due to ignorance of the nature of the mod. Basically a tomato with a little missing so didn't go swishy, as a result could be farmed large scale and picked and delivered to supermarket after ripening so had good flavour. Most are picked too young so don't go squishy by time hit the shelves and are tasteless compared to fresh local grown picked at maturity.
Bit of a new topic but people should have the right to know what they are eating and a choice about it.
Ah yeah texas is probably exception as it's locally farmed essentially. Info I found is other places in states use frozen and fresh but not as much as here. Please don't eat brit sausages if you ever visit here though, they are horrid.
I do have a problem with the industry misleading it's customers though, thats not right. People should be able to choose what they are eating actually knowing the facts. Same with GM, if people want to modify crops then fine. I just want a choice about eating it or not and to see actual info on what has been done to it. The removal of enzyme to break down pectin in tomato cell walls is good one but got boycotted and discontinued due to ignorance of the nature of the mod. Basically a tomato with a little missing so didn't go swishy, as a result could be farmed large scale and picked and delivered to supermarket after ripening so had good flavour. Most are picked too young so don't go squishy by time hit the shelves and are tasteless compared to fresh local grown picked at maturity.
Bit of a new topic but people should have the right to know what they are eating and a choice about it.
Ah yeah texas is probably exception as it's locally farmed essentially. Info I found is other places in states use frozen and fresh but not as much as here. Please don't eat brit sausages if you ever visit here though, they are horrid.
I would agree, about lack of taste in grocery store meat. Cows that were only fed dry feed. My cousin raises cattle, but they all graze pasture:
The difference in taste is remarkable...night and day.
The difference in taste is remarkable...night and day.