Why does the government hide UFO's?
- Thread starter darksidZz
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Ivan Seeking
Registered Senior Member
I don't see how that confirms ground observations. And the large object being seen near the jet but not being picked up by the RADAR is another issue. This seems again to suggest that stealth was being used. And what would account for the target apparently dropping below ground level? Clearly there was something anomalous going on with the RADAR.
I think you missed the point. The large craft reported by eyewitnesses was not what the jet was chasing.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
You have no idea if the radar was locked on something different from the triangles. And as I already quoted:
"During this time, ground witnesses broadly corroborate the information obtained by radar. They described seeing the smaller triangle completely disappear from sight at one point, while the larger triangle moved upwards very rapidly as the F-16s flew past."
Fast movements like that aren't possible for a blimp.
BTW, how did you determine that the object dropped below ground level? Maybe it ascended above the radar range.
Ivan Seeking
Registered Senior Member
If the observers saw small craft just ahead of the jet, the pilot would have made visual contact.
"Fast" is a relative term that has no clear definition.
Watch the altitude of the target on the RADAR. When the AF gave the press conference it was noted. And the apparent craft was still well within the range of the RADAR.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Not necessarily. These craft have lights on their bottom side, but maybe not on their topside. It's likely that the craft could therefore be seen by ground observers but not by the pilots.
The movements of the radar object were confirmed by ground observers. When it ascended "very rapidly" suddenly on the radar, observers saw it do that. There's no way a blimp can do that.
Eyewitness reports confirm that the craft was seen sometime moving at incredible speeds:
"The crafts did not move fast, they would usually move at a very slow speed, and would many times simply hover, rather than move. Though, at some times, the crafts would move at a very high speed, moving from one point of the horizon, to another point directly opposite in a matter of seconds."
"Others report that one of the triangle crafts constructing itself into a different shape, a circle to be particular, with a circular light, which then let out a large amount of relatively small, red objects, spreading out in nearly every direction, with the circular craft then turning back into a triangular shaped craft."===http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread951998/pg1
Photo taken in 1990:
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Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Ivan,
Just out of curiosity, why would a "stealth blimp" on a stealth mission projecting radar targets somehow onto jet and ground radar have huge lights shining down to earth? That doesn't make sense. But then neither do ufos really. These things are often lit up like discos, flashing multicolored lights at night and showing off with all sorts of amazing morphing stunts. Whatever these things are, they WANT to be seen. As to why, we just don't know....yet.
Just out of curiosity, why would a "stealth blimp" on a stealth mission projecting radar targets somehow onto jet and ground radar have huge lights shining down to earth? That doesn't make sense. But then neither do ufos really. These things are often lit up like discos, flashing multicolored lights at night and showing off with all sorts of amazing morphing stunts. Whatever these things are, they WANT to be seen. As to why, we just don't know....yet.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Another compelling multiple eyewitness case. This ufo was a large silver sphere seen by hundreds in Gosford Australia in 1994 and documented in police reports. It was also seen sucking up water from a lake! The witnesses are highly credible ordinary people. I think it even swooped over Paddoboy's backyard..
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Another compelling multiple eyewitness case. This ufo was a large silver sphere seen by hundreds in Gosford Australia and documented in police reports. It was also seen sucking up water from a lake! I think it even swooped over Paddoboy's backyard..
Interesting, another UFO.
Ivan Seeking
Registered Senior Member
The military and CIA have admitted to using "UFOs" as a cover story to hide real testing. So it could have been intended to be misidentified.
Don't get me wrong. I don't know what to think of the UFO phenomenon. But this particular case does seem to be largely consistent with some kind of test. The fact that the pilot never made visual contact and the target dropping below ground level has always suggested to me that there was only one craft in the area, and it was responsible for producing a false RADAR target. I became especially compelled to think so when it came out that we have false RADAR image technology [which I suggested many years ago.
. It was fairly easy to imagine that was coming or already exists]To me, anecdotal evidence can be compelling but I doubt the details of this case can be verified to such a degree that it can be used to support RADAR data directly. Again, if witnesses could see the other craft, why couldn't the pilot?
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
The military and CIA have admitted to using "UFOs" as a cover story to hide real testing. So it could have been intended to be misidentified.
Don't get me wrong. I don't know what to think of the UFO phenomenon. But this particular case does seem to be largely consistent with some kind of test. The fact that the pilot never made visual contact and the target dropping below ground level has always suggested to me that there was only one craft in the area, and it was responsible for producing a false RADAR target. I became especially compelled to think so when it came out that we have false RADAR image technology [which I suggested many years ago.
To me, anecdotal evidence can be compelling but I doubt the details of this case can be verified to such a degree that it can be used to support RADAR data directly. Again, if witnesses could see the other craft, why couldn't the pilot?
I respect your knowledge and researching this case open-mindedly. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. Tks for the conversation.
Ivan Seeking
Registered Senior Member
Why does the Government hide UFOs? What hiding? Many of the best reports on record come from the military! [Tehran 76, Rendlesham Forest, B29 over the Gulf, etc]
So my question is, if the government is hiding information about UFOs, why do they release specific and highly compelling, well-documented encounters?
So my question is, if the government is hiding information about UFOs, why do they release specific and highly compelling, well-documented encounters?
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
I don't think UFOs are military craft that the government is hiding. They are only suppressing information about encounters with this unknown phenomenon to avoid embarrassment and creating public hysteria. It defies reason and logic. That's why they cover it up. Except in those cases where it slips out.
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Ivan Seeking
Registered Senior Member
Consider the Iran [Tehran] 1976 event. That was distributed to all levels of high government and the intelligence community, and then declassified. They were probably most worried that it was the Soviets testing something , which is why it went all the way to the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the White House. But then it was declassified. This suggests to me that they didn't know what it was, or they did and weren't worried. Given that it was apparently beyond technology we have even today, they must have been mystified. Nothing else seems to make sense.
I forget the Senators name, but in the 50s there was a rather famous US Senator who visited the Soviet Union. He filed an official report claiming that he saw two "flying saucers" take off from a field next to the train he was traveling on. Two official copies of that report can be found - one has many paragraphs blacked out. The other one is untouched. The only information that was considered secret was the visit to the Soviet Union. That was highly classified at the time. But they had no problem releasing the information about the UFOs he reported.
I'm not saying that I have an explanation. But this is inconsistent with a government hiding information about UFOs.
Ivan Seeking
Registered Senior Member
I accidently hit my SF link and decided to take a look around when the website came up. And see... in no time I start getting sucked in!
It was Senator Russell, I think...
It was Senator Russell, I think...
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Wasn't this established as being a helicopter picking up water to fight a fire some 10-15 miles away?Another compelling multiple eyewitness case. This ufo was a large silver sphere seen by hundreds in Gosford Australia in 1994 and documented in police reports. It was also seen sucking up water from a lake! The witnesses are highly credible ordinary people. I think it even swooped over Paddoboy's backyard..
I'm trying to find some confirmation but it was before t'internet made things easy.
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
If you substantiate this, which I expect you can if try hard enough, MR will laugh, pretend he knew that all along and was just playing a joke, and then will deluge you with another four equally flaky cases.
The idea is to keep them coming too fast for anyone to be able to keep up with the debunking - the Gish Gallop, in fact.
Complete effing waste of time.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
I highly doubt that hundreds of witnesses would mistake a helicopter for a large silver sphere. But if you find something let me know. I'm open to most logical explanations.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
You have only to discuss any one of them at any time. As usual you don't and just whine that there's too many for you to consider. What a cop out.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
This case is striking not only for the 15 eyewitnesses of the object(s) landing and taking off in different places, but for ALL their vehicles being stalled and powered down when they were near the object. It happened in Levelland Texas in 1957:
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
This is one of the best Canadian ufo sightings in history, involving multiple witnesses, video footage by reporters, and radiation traces that occurred over a period of about 14 months from 1975 to 1976. The Charlie Redstar UFO Flap:
May 16, 1975, near Stephenfield, Manitoba - Three drunk youths were at a party north of Boyne River, when one of them saw a stationary moon-sized red light. After ten minutes, it shone a white searchlight-like beam onto the lake. An underwater object shone below the beam that made the lake bottom visible, then moved towards the shore, creating ripplets. One youth threw a rock at the object, which broke into four, then separated and individually moved "like a conveyor belt" towards the beam of light. The lights in the objects went out, then the hovering object was observed to break in half and the halves moved away from each other in opposite directions. Although they admitted to being drunk, hallucination seemed unlikely as they each saw the same event.
- "February 1975, north of Lundar, Manitoba - A farmer walking to his barn saw a basketball-sized light swooping over him. As he gazed up, he felt as if hot plastic was poured over his face.
- March 27, 1975, near Graysville, Manitoba - At 2 am, a young girl wakes up to a shrill siren-like pulsating sound, and an earthquake-like tremble. She saw a red ball of light, as bright as the sun, zipping southwards.
- April 10, 1975, near Carmen Manitoba - The Diemert couple was walking to their private airfield, when they saw a large red slow-moving light, hovering at the treeline. They saw a disk-shaped object with a dome attached. It then turned direction and disappeared after five minutes.
- Starting May 7 of that year, the same couple saw the object every night for several months. In the summer, many others came to their airfield to see the UFO, observing incredibly fast changes in direction. On May 9, a Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) Constable was called to their farm to see the UFO. He reported that the object was at approximately 1,000 feet (300 m) in altitude. He described it as an oval red light, surrounded with an x-shaped white halo. When he followed it in his car, it appeared stationary for about two to three minutes, then started moving away. The object behaved rather similarly to an airplane descending into Winnipeg.
- On May 11–14, the Diemerts contacted CKY-TV to send their TV crews to capture footage of the object. Nothing of interest was observed on the 11th, but on the 12th, a "Light At The End of the Road" (LATER) was observed, appearing as a stationary light that sped away when approached. On the 13th, at around 11:30 pm north of Carman, a light was observed to rise above the trees in the west, then moved slowly and shot up incredibly fast and disappeared. It was smokey red and was estimated to be 50 feet (15 m) tall and 20 feet (6.1 m) thick. Another group saw it hovering behind the trees, appearing like a blood-red moon. It rose upward, then suddenly sped east. Another group caught "Charlie" on film, showing a red light near the ground, enlarging in apparent size, then shooting up into the sky. Another group captured the object jumping up and down and pulsating. Some of the films were examined by experts. Radioactive soil was also found near some of the sightings.
May 16, 1975, near Stephenfield, Manitoba - Three drunk youths were at a party north of Boyne River, when one of them saw a stationary moon-sized red light. After ten minutes, it shone a white searchlight-like beam onto the lake. An underwater object shone below the beam that made the lake bottom visible, then moved towards the shore, creating ripplets. One youth threw a rock at the object, which broke into four, then separated and individually moved "like a conveyor belt" towards the beam of light. The lights in the objects went out, then the hovering object was observed to break in half and the halves moved away from each other in opposite directions. Although they admitted to being drunk, hallucination seemed unlikely as they each saw the same event.
- June 4, 1975, north of St. Claude, Manitoba - A farmer saw a flying saucer with two domes top-to-bottom, made from a glass-like material. The top of the craft was silver in colour and the bottom was described as a fish-like milky white. He attempted to leave the area but his truck failed to start.
- July 1, 1975, west of Roland, Manitoba - Three people saw a strange object moving towards them with a bobbing motion. The UFO shone a bright light onto a grain elevator, bright enough to make its nails visible. It was about 85 feet (26 m) across and perfectly circular. It appeared as a similar flying saucer, but the domes were rotating in opposite directions. The centre disk was stationary and appeared to have several oval windows. The object landed in a nearby field, and the three approached the object, but it flew away before they reached it.
- July 2, 1975, near Halbstadt, Manitoba - A farmer discovered a barren patch in his field of sugar beets, oval and 39 feet (12 m) in diameter. Vegetation in the patch was dehydrated, and a 50 ft (15 m) swath west of the patch was also damaged, but less so farther from the patch. A tripod-like mark was also discovered in the oval.
In 1976, fewer sightings were reported, but many people still saw the familiar red light, bobbing in the distance. A ufologist was able to look at "Charlie" and his cousin, "Little Charlie", a twinkling that often receded when approached.
- April 3, 1976, near Sperling, Manitoba - At around 8 pm, an orange ball of light was observed to suddenly appear over a bridge, about 5 feet (1.5 m) wide. As the observers followed in a car, they saw a second ball appear over their car. The objects reportedly disappeared or receded when they were chased, but then suddenly reappeared when they started leaving.
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