Why Do You Believe?

[(Q)]

If a person wants to harm you, then you have the right to defend yourself regardless of his beleives

Let's look at that statement for what it is.

Self-preservation is the instinctive will to survive. In other words, you WILL defend your life if it is in danger. Only someone who wanted to die or was devoid of mental faculties would allow another to kill or harm him/her. That has been part of us long before religion was ever invented.

So, why would you need a book to tell you to defend yourself if your life was in danger?

 

[Godless]

A little history lessons for our muslim friends.

How the Jihad originated 1400 years back and how the nature and idol-worshipping pre Muslim Arabs were the first nation to be traumatized by Islam. The Arabs being the only nation who were not given the choice of paying Jaziya and remaining non-Muslim, a courtesy extended later to all non-Muslims. The choice for the nature and idol-worshipping pre Muslim Arabs was only Islam or Death. Hence there are no surviving nature and idol-worshipping non-Muslim Arabs today. A point missed by many Arabs and Western historians
Click, NO really click away.

Have a nice day.

Godless

 

[arnoldmiro]

I do not know, are you trying to twist the words again or you really do not understand what I say .
However, I shall consider that you do not understand me properly, so I shall spare some moments to mke my words clear to you.

If the unbeleivers do not offer you peace, then they shall offer you war

In other words, if you disbelieve, you are considered to be offering war and are to be killed.

No that is not true, as if disbeivers or beleivers in other religions than ours offer us peace, then we are obliged by the words of God to offer them peace in return.

Fight those who fight you and do not aggress as God do not like aggressors.

That is a contradiction. Your god cannot tell you to fight on one hand and then not like aggressors. Fighting IS agression.

Again you do not understand well.
There is no contradiction at all. To make this verse clear, I shall give you an example : Consider that there is a man who is trying to kill you with a knife, what would you do then ? Would you stand still, or would you try to defend yourself ?
The verse answers that question clearly.
Not all fighting is aggression. If you are fighting people to steal their properties then you are an aggressor. But if you are fighting those who are trying to steal your properties, then you would be a defender not an aggressor.

Regarding the first two points I totaly disagree with them as we are not ordered to kill unbeleivers as long as they are peaceful to us.

No, as long as they believe in the Quran, you won't kill them.

Not true.

We are ordered to kill only those who seek to kill us.

You are ordered to kill disbelievers. We both know that.

Thats what you claim, and you still have no proof for that.

Peace on you

 

[arnoldmiro]

So, why would you need a book to tell you to defend yourself if your life was in danger?

Why you are trying to be irrational in your way of thinking.
Initially, you do not belive in a God, so why do you bother thinking about religions ? Religions are for those who beleive in God; and accordingly they perceive the religion as the answer to their questions, regarding the creation, and as a constitution of life.
Think first about whether there is a God or not.
If you end up beleiving in God's presence, then start thinking in and discussing religions.
However, if you end up not beleiving in the presence of God, then why jump to conclusions by discussing different religions and debating whether they are right or wrong.

Peace be upon you

 

[(Q)]

Consider that there is a man who is trying to kill you with a knife, what would you do then ? Would you stand still, or would you try to defend yourself ?

You didn't read my post. That is self-preservation, you don't need a book to tell you that. It is a stating of the obvious.

Thats what you claim, and you still have no proof for that.

The Quran clearly states it, I make no claims.

Initially, you do not belive in a God, so why do you bother thinking about religions ?

I am working towards the complete irradication of religion from the world. Religion will be the destruction of us all.

However, if you end up not beleiving in the presence of God, then why jump to conclusions by discussing different religions and debating whether they are right or wrong.

Quite simple really, your religion, amongst others, is dangerous to mankind. Islam enslaves people, destroys their ability to reason and think and then persecutes them for attempting it, oppresses their human rights, divides those who don't follow, and demands the death of those who don't believe.

It is a fantasy conjured up by a mentally deranged man who led thousands to their deaths for not following him and his hallucinations. He was a thief, a rapist and a terrorist.

Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”

Ishaq:344 “We smote them and they scattered. The impious met death. They became fuel for Hell.

Qur’an 60:5 “We reject you. Hostility and hate have come between us forever, unless you believe in Allah only.’”

 

[enton]

*************
M*W: No, you haven't "given" us anything, especially biblical riches. You're a liar, just like your bible. You talk a lot, but you don't deliver anything.

Pearls are not for swine.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Pearls are not for swine.

*************
M*W: Then get your sorry ass off this forum.

 

[Godless]

Now, Now Med. We need blathering pendejos to laugh at.

Besides he's only a reminder of how we used to be. Before we took that little blue pill, and went down the rabbit hole. And found ourselves in objective reality.

Godless

 

[jayleew]

Fight against them until there is no dissension, and the religion is for Allah. (surah 2:193)

Fight those who neither believe in Allah nor the Last Day, who do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, and do not embrace the religion of the truth, beign among those who have been given the Book (Bible and the Torah), until they pay tribute out of hand and have been humiliated. (surah 9:29)

"Jihad does not primarily refer to a 'struggle of personal piety.' Jihad is combat on the fronts of politics, warfare, and culture. Muhammad exemplified this principle when he authorized the slaughter of thousands of men throughout the Arabian Peninsula in the name of Allah. If Jihad is only a personal internal struggle, the Prophe misled the people through his actions and words as recorded in the Hadith. In the end, he was the personification of a militaristic theologian, which the Hadith accurately illustrates. In surah 2:190, Allah says, 'Fight[jihad] in the cause of Allah those who fight [ajihad] you.' The definition of this struggle includes the possibility of violence:

And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. (surah 2:191)" (Caner and Caner, 2002)

Caner and Caner (2002), Unveiling Islam, Kregel Publications, Ergun Mehmet Caner, Emir Fethi Caner.

 

[(Q)]

Nice quotes jayleew, now go and find similar ones from your religion, there are plenty.

 

[arnoldmiro]

It is a fantasy conjured up by a mentally deranged man who led thousands to their deaths for not following him and his hallucinations. He was a thief, a rapist and a terrorist.

Thiefs, rapists, and terrorists are the west.
You simply do not read history. Even newspapers, you know nothing about what the west is doing. And unfortunately, you are one of those terrorist who are terrorising peacful people i their lands.
Narrow minded end to be a poor Godless disbeleiver.
I feel pitty for your little mind, that do not recognize more than catoons and melodies. You simply no longer sea further than the tip of your nose.
Books are every where, and you still insists to be ignorant.
How would one make a blind and deaf comprehend.
You shall stay mindless until you decide to have one.
Poor You

Peace be upon rationals

 

[Godless]

Thiefs, rapists, and terrorists are the west.

Yes this is true, and they also happened to be religious of another denomination, that is just as senseless as yours. So what's your next excuse?.

You simply do not read history. Even newspapers, you know nothing about what the west is doing.

Bull shit! you know nothing of anyone here, this is ad-hominem, surely if you have a mind you can do better than this.

Narrow minded end to be a poor Godless disbeleiver.

This exactly how we feel of you, mindless delusional believer in crap that can't be proven, your allegations are nothing more than superstitions.

You simply no longer sea further than the tip of your nose.

And you see no further than a book written by a lunatic. :bugeye:

Books are every where, and you still insists to be ignorant.

As do you, believing in bullshit that can't be factually true, and proven. Your delusional, and can't face the fact that you are.

How would one make a blind and deaf comprehend.

Medical advancement, and getting rid of religious bull shit.

You shall stay mindless until you decide to have one.

No need to worry you've have clearly shown us your delusional and full of BS.

Godless

 

[the preacher]

Thiefs, rapists, and terrorists are the west.

west of where?.

You simply do not read history. Even newspapers, you know nothing about what the west is doing.

west of where?, whos history books?, whos newspapers?.

And unfortunately, you are one of those terrorist who are terrorising peacful people i their lands.

who is?.

Narrow minded end to be a poor Godless disbeleiver.

who?.

I feel pitty for your little mind, that do not recognize more than cartoons and melodies. You simply no longer see further than the tip of your nose.

who?.

Books are every where, and you still insists to be ignorant.

yes are'nt you the clever one.and who?

How would one make a blind and deaf comprehend.

with patients and understanding.

You shall stay mindless until you decide to have one.

have one what?.

Poor You

poor who, the terrorist, who does'nt read books or newspapers, who lives somewhere west of somewhere?.

Peace be upon rationals

and piss on the irrationals too, yourself included

 

[(Q)]

Hi Arnoldmiro

Thanks, that's pretty much what I thought you'd say, as a Muslim.

You sound like you want to kill me now, since I'm a disbeliever.

 

[jayleew]

Nice quotes jayleew, now go and find similar ones from your religion, there are plenty.

Help me out to see past my blindness, because I don't see similar ideas in the Bible. And I think we can all agree that the Bible was written by the hand of men, and from the interpretation and perception of men, so therefore is open to interpretation and leading of the living God.

In other words, I don't think there are any such commands in the Bible, but I can look, but I also don't live by the Bible, but by Christ's teachings and the workings of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Hapsburg]

"Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword."

Isn't that one of the quotes from the bible? Sounds mightly vi-o-lent to me.
Christianity is a violent religion, plain and simple. It's not what it says that matters, it is the actions taken by its followers that matter.

 

[(Q)]

jayleew

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

 

[c7ityi_]

"Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword."

"Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword"

"Those who do not live by the law shall die by the law"

Violence is born in the mind, not in a book.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

"Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword."

Isn't that one of the quotes from the bible? Sounds mightly vi-o-lent to me.
Christianity is a violent religion, plain and simple. It's not what it says that matters, it is the actions taken by its followers that matter.

*************
M*W: Hapsburg, I'm sure your parents are proud of you. I wish you were my kid!

 

[Jenyar]

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

The oath only applies to those who entered into the covenant: Judah. That's why verse 15 reads: "All Judah rejoiced about the oath because they had sworn it wholeheartedly. They sought God eagerly, and he was found by them. So the LORD gave them rest on every side."

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

This is after God had imposed a ban on prophecy: verse 2: "I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from the land." Again, not many outside Israel would presume to speak in the name of Yhwh anyway.

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Again, how does this apply to anyone outside Israel's jurisdiction? Doesn't it say "among you"? Their relationship with God and their livelihood depended on keeping their side of the covenant. But they didn't, and after the exile to Babylon they lost all those towns - they lost their juridsiction.

Do you complain about the absence of piracy laws in Asia, or their strict drug laws (traficking is punisheable by death)? If not, why complain about Israel's laws? If you do, on what grounds?