Why Do You Believe?
- Thread starter Athelwulf
- Start date
Godless said:
Thats a Goos start !!
What start.
I do not know what do you want to prove ??
First of all, the translation of the verses mentioned by you is not that proper and not accurate.
My previous message was mentioning that please find the verse in Quran that mentions as Q claims " that those who do not follow the prophet should be killed."
What you mentioned above has nothing to do with that discussion, as all the verses, if they were properly translated, mention that the disbeleifers will be burned in hell.
God is punishing the disbeleifers, What do muslems have to do with that ?
.
You are trying to twist the words. The verse just before the one above says "Fight those who fight you, and do not aggress, as God does not like aggressors." 2:190
"If those who fight you stopped fighting you, then God is forgiving and merciful." 2:192
The verses speak for themselves.
The proper translation for this verse is :
"War is distined to you by Allah, and war is disliked by you, but you may hate something while it is good for you, and you may like something while it is bad for you, God knows and you do not know."
"...... and they will still fight you to make you leave your religion if they can ....... " 2:217
So the meaning of that verse is very clear, you are forced to fight, while you dislike fighting, those who are forcing you to leave your releigon. In fact you are protecting your beleifs.
So it seams that you and Q have not yet succeeded in finding the verse you claim it is present " muslems should kill those who disagree with the prophet.".
Try harder, but I am sure you will not find it, because simply it does not excists.
Pleace be upon you
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Do disbelievers follow or agree with the prophet?.arnoldmiro said:
actually it says cow 2,190. Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.arnoldmiro said:
cow 2,192. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
I surpose, it just like the bible it's what translation you have.
216. Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.arnoldmiro said:
217. They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.
again it's open to interpretation.
again, Do disbelievers follow or agree with the prophet?.arnoldmiro said:
So it seams that you and Q have not yet succeeded in finding the verse you claim it is present " muslems should kill those who disagree with the prophet.".
Sorry arny, but we did and you know it. And that is just the tip of the iceberg, there's plenty more where that came from.
Sour grapes?
Sorry arny, but we did and you know it. And that is just the tip of the iceberg, there's plenty more where that came from.
Sour grapes?
Three kinds of muslims:
The silent muslim
The stupid muslim
The good muslim
Click and tell which one are you!.
I'd bet your a good little muslim aren't you?.
Godless
The silent muslim
The stupid muslim
The good muslim
Click and tell which one are you!.
I'd bet your a good little muslim aren't you?.
Godless
*************enton said:
M*W: Unless you give what you have happily and unconditionally and without expecting anything in return, otherwise you are just another lying christian. Come on, give up all your worldly goods and distribute them to the atheists on sciforums. That'll show you are a true christian.
yes if it's what I ask for, but you should'nt be asking for something in return.enton said:
"Give to everyone that asketh thee; and from him that taketh away thy goods ask not again." Luke 6:30
"Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." Matt. 5:42
"But love your enemies, and do them good, and lend never despairing; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be Sons of the Most High: for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil." Luke 6:35
when you have given all your worldy goods to me, and I am happy, then whether you are who you, say you are.
it's irrelevant if your not who you say you areenton said:
Jesus says "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves." Matt 7:15
and "Then if any man shall say to you Lo, here is the Christ, or, Here, believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets and shall show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the very elect." Matt. 24:23-24
John says "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1st John 4:1
"Therefore by their fruits shall you know them. Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by your name and by your name cast out demons, and by your name do many mighty works? And I will profess to them, I never knew you. Go away from me you who work evil." Matt 7:22-23
I yet to recieve these fruits, ar'nt I.
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audible said:
Dear Audible,
Disbelievers do not agreed with neither the prophet nor God. This is understood. But this still does not prove what Q claimed that muslems are ordered to kill all those who disagree with the prophet.
Where is that verese in Quran that says what you both claim ???
Until now you failed in proving your claim. All what you got are verses mentioning that God will send bad people to hell, or verses stating that you may defend your yourself.
Again where is that verese in Quran that says what you both claim ???
Peace be upon you
(Q) said:
If the unbeleivers do not offer you peace, then they shall offer you war, and in Quran, as per my previous messages, Fight those who fight you and do not aggress as God do not like aggressors.
How would you consider muslems to be killers while they are ordered by God not to be aggressors ?
Regarding the first two points I totaly disagree with them as we are not ordered to kill unbeleivers as long as they are peaceful to us.
If a person wants to harm you, then you have the right to defend yourself regardless of his beleives.
That is what you find in Quran, unlike others, we are ordered to defend ourselves, our families, our properties and our nation against aggressors.
Do you consider defending youself murdering
Peace be upon you
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audible said:
If God is sending disbeleivers to hell as he says, then that is his decision, and beleivers have nothing to do with that, unless they try to show them the right way. If they succeed, that will be for their own good, if not, then God does what he wants to do.
Our releigon is brought as mercy to humans to make a better life, and we are ordered not to aggress on peaceful people, even if they were disbeleivers.
We are ordered to kill only those who seek to kill us.
Peace be upon you
*************enton said:
M*W: No, you haven't "given" us anything, especially biblical riches. You're a liar, just like your bible. You talk a lot, but you don't deliver anything.
If the unbeleivers do not offer you peace, then they shall offer you war
In other words, if you disbelieve, you are considered to be offering war and are to be killed.
Fight those who fight you and do not aggress as God do not like aggressors.
That is a contradiction. Your god cannot tell you to fight on one hand and then not like aggressors. Fighting IS agression.
Regarding the first two points I totaly disagree with them as we are not ordered to kill unbeleivers as long as they are peaceful to us.
No, as long as they believe in the Quran, you won't kill them.
We are ordered to kill only those who seek to kill us.
You are ordered to kill disbelievers. We both know that.
In other words, if you disbelieve, you are considered to be offering war and are to be killed.
Fight those who fight you and do not aggress as God do not like aggressors.
That is a contradiction. Your god cannot tell you to fight on one hand and then not like aggressors. Fighting IS agression.
Regarding the first two points I totaly disagree with them as we are not ordered to kill unbeleivers as long as they are peaceful to us.
No, as long as they believe in the Quran, you won't kill them.
We are ordered to kill only those who seek to kill us.
You are ordered to kill disbelievers. We both know that.