Why do you believe in God?

Godless
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whatever it may or may not be, there is no question of coming to the platform of direct perception, either in science or theism, without it
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WTF? I perceive every day with out invoking faith! I don't live by merely having faith in someone's fantasy!

Science does not dwell on faith, but experimentation. When you throw a rock up in the air, do you know! for certain it will come down, or I suppose you have faith that it does! I don't by the laws of gravity I know the damn rock will fall down! No faith there! only emperical evidence that gravity is doing it's job!
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that's my point - a person comes to the point of direct perception (regarding the workings of gravity) after passing through the doors of faith (at the very least, nothing scientific can be established without the faith that proceedures can give uniform results)
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there are also taboo subjects in science that encroach upon their dogmas - like you are free to think that life came from matter but you are not free to think that life came from consciousness
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You are free to think whatever the hell you want! it's were the evidence leads is what makes it emperical or pseudoscience! So far no "supernatural consciousness" has been evident!
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given that there is no evidence for abiogenisis, its not clear why they are dogmatic (at least in theism there is the claim of direct perception


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I was meaning that the tendency to find intellectually lazy persons (in science, theism, or any field of knowledge) is higher than the occurences of sincere enquirers of knowledge in the same fields
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Glad you noticed theist in the scientific community! They already have all the answers! "god did it" as for secularists, they are not out to prove, disprove god, their quest is emperical objective observations!
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seems like you are unable to conceive of a theist except the narrow minded variety that serves your stereotypical cliches perfectly - certainly your world view doesn't account for the many contributions theistically minded scientists have made over the past several centuries - certainly doesn't appear like they are satisfied saying "goddunit" - in fact there are numerous quotes that indicate that their theism drove their scientific inquiry - they wanted to know how god did it
 
that's my point - a person comes to the point of direct perception (regarding the workings of gravity) after passing through the doors of faith (at the very least, nothing scientific can be established without the faith that proceedures can give uniform results)
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wrong! one does not pass the "doors of faith" to see a godamn rock fall back to the ground! Its an observation, regardless of wether the idividual that threw it knows what the hell gravity is or not! I'ts observation, emperical, it happens! every single time, the rock is thrown straight up in the air it comes down! There's no freaking "FAITH" involved in the observation of the phenomenon!


given that there is no evidence for abiogenisis, its not clear why they are dogmatic (at least in theism there is the claim of direct perception
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Here you are basically telling me, since you don't really understand abiogenesis, god did it! Since science does not have all the evidence as yet, you assume the freaking answer!!

Well it's time you get reaquited with the lates in abiogenesis research! so do read the "f*cking link" ok!
http://www.iscid.org/encyclopedia/Abiogenesis

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB090.html

Index to Creationist Claims
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html

seems like you are unable to conceive of a theist except the narrow minded variety that serves your stereotypical cliches perfectly
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I only conceive from the moderates, to the fundamentalists i.e. Zealots. And this is apparently what you are a fundy!
 
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Godless
“
that's my point - a person comes to the point of direct perception (regarding the workings of gravity) after passing through the doors of faith (at the very least, nothing scientific can be established without the faith that proceedures can give uniform results)
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wrong! one does not pass the "doors of faith" to see a godamn rock fall back to the ground! Its an observation, regardless of wether the idividual that threw it knows what the hell gravity is or not! I'ts observation, emperical, it happens! every single time, the rock is thrown straight up in the air it comes down! There's no freaking "FAITH" involved in the observation of the phenomenon!
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my mistake
I thought we were talking about the nature of perceiving the workings of reality, in particularly the law of gravity

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given that there is no evidence for abiogenisis, its not clear why they are dogmatic (at least in theism there is the claim of direct perception

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Here you are basically telling me, since you don't really understand abiogenesis, god did it! Since science does not have all the evidence as yet, you assume the freaking answer!!
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Actually I am just telling you that empriricism doesn't understand it, what to speak of laying claim to the direct perception of the phenomena, so it snot clear why the notion that life came from consciousness is dogmatically refused

Well it's time you get reaquited with the lates in abiogenesis research! so do read the "f*cking link" ok!
http://www.iscid.org/encyclopedia/Abiogenesis

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB090.html

Index to Creationist Claims
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html
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delightful - but still no clear answers on how, where, what or when abiogenesis happened - "perhaps" and "maybe" doesn't do the job
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seems like you are unable to conceive of a theist except the narrow minded variety that serves your stereotypical cliches perfectly
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I only conceive from the moderates, to the fundamentalists i.e. Zealots. And this is apparently what you are a fundy!
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I guess that anyone who dares to suggest that there is no evidence for abiogenesis, only theories, is considered a zealot by you - I would argue that the inability to acknowledge that there is no evidence that is capabale of giving abiogenesis a higher status than that of an unverified theory is zealousness
 
I guess that anyone who dares to suggest that there is no evidence for abiogenesis, only theories, is considered a zealot by you - I would argue that the inability to acknowledge that there is no evidence that is capabale of giving abiogenesis a higher status than that of an unverified theory is zealousness
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definitions of a religious zealot:
1. Religious zealot

Usually called fundamentalists, these people tend to be the idiots that piss off atheists and lead them to be jerks in definitions like god and bible.


these people are oblivious to the obvious, and were ostracized from europe and russia, and sent to what is nowdays called the united states.

2. Religious zealot

A person who has ruined religion by using it for his own personal gain and to make him seem like (s)he's better than non-religious people.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=religious+zealot


Actually I am just telling you that empriricism doesn't understand it, what to speak of laying claim to the direct perception of the phenomena, so it snot clear why the notion that life came from consciousness is dogmatically refused
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The reason should be clear, as you claim but fail to ascribe to a god! Simple critical thinking will lead you to the conclusion. A: if human life/cosciousness did not manifest itself out of mere matter, then wence does god come from? I'ts god's consciousness that you claim it self manifested out of nothing! Hence prefectly illogical and unreasonable! :p
 
Godless said:
definitions of a religious zealot:
1. Religious zealot

Usually called fundamentalists, these people tend to be the idiots that piss off atheists and lead them to be jerks in definitions like god and bible.


these people are oblivious to the obvious, and were ostracized from europe and russia, and sent to what is nowdays called the united states.

2. Religious zealot

A person who has ruined religion by using it for his own personal gain and to make him seem like (s)he's better than non-religious people.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=religious+zealot
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a highly credible link indeed

The reason should be clear, as you claim but fail to ascribe to a god! Simple critical thinking will lead you to the conclusion. A: if human life/cosciousness did not manifest itself out of mere matter, then wence does god come from? I'ts god's consciousness that you claim it self manifested out of nothing! Hence prefectly illogical and unreasonable! :p
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so does that mean you accept the essential aspects of matter as eternal?
 
so does that mean you accept the essential aspects of matter as eternal?
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Of course! I'm not one who spouts our universe began in a big bang! It never happened! Existence exists! PERIOD it has always existed, and shall for ever exist.

a highly credible link indeed
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I suppose the sarcasm just flew over your head? :rolleyes:
 
so if matter is eternal, why can't god be too?
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Cause god represents an ideology. NOT an actual being. If god would represent an actual being it would live out it's day according to all living things in the universe "key word here Lg. *living*" It be born, live its few decades etc..then it would die. However since god is just n ideological manifestation of primitive humans mentality it basically grew stronger, as we evolved.

I.E first primitive gods, had certain realms that they controlled, Look up Greek Gods, on google you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about, when civilizations clashed, those gods got replaced, by the triumphant clan's gods, making the defeated clans god's sub-gods, minor gods, and so on...Look under Astrotheology in google and you'll know what I'm talking about..
 
Godless said:
wrong! one does not pass the "doors of faith" to see a godamn rock fall back to the ground! Its an observation, regardless of wether the idividual that threw it knows what the hell gravity is or not! I'ts observation, emperical, it happens! every single time, the rock is thrown straight up in the air it comes down! There's no freaking "FAITH" involved in the observation of the phenomenon!


Maybe not in the observation of the phenomena itself, but it takes faith at least to think that there is a cause to it and even greater faith in yourself to go about believing you have the power to prove it. All science is faith-based, it takes faith to believe there are greater unseen forces around causing observable phenomena and that those forces can be proven. The belief in "God" is the same. People seek to prove that which they do not understand, whether it be through science or religion.
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Godless said:
Cause god represents an ideology. NOT an actual being. If god would represent an actual being it would live out it's day according to all living things in the universe "key word here Lg. *living*" It be born, live its few decades etc..then it would die. However since god is just n ideological manifestation of primitive humans mentality it basically grew stronger, as we evolved.

I.E first primitive gods, had certain realms that they controlled, Look up Greek Gods, on google you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about, when civilizations clashed, those gods got replaced, by the triumphant clan's gods, making the defeated clans god's sub-gods, minor gods, and so on...Look under Astrotheology in google and you'll know what I'm talking about..
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I don't doubt that religion has its poltical aspects, but then it would be difficult to conceive of anything that bears a wide social influence that doesn't have a political influence (there are even politics within science, particularly when it comes to budgets and receiving grants)

To get back on track however, I was raising the q that if one can accept that matter, or some aspect of it, is eternal (after all, where did the matter come from?) what is it particularly about the nature of god's consciousness that disqualifies his consciousness from being eternal.

You say that "god is an imagination etc" but that is a bit of a circular argument however you don't establish any logical fallacy with the proposed idea, except to say that "you are wrong because you are wrong"

You suggest that because no one has seen the consciousness of God (*apparently - at least not according to saintly people, but anyway, we will put that aside for the moment*) therefore he cannot possibly be eternal - but then no one has seen the eternal qualities of matter either (its all temporary), so its not clear what general principles you are applying
 
Because when I had no one to trust and the law was wrong, a book called the bible had the answers and the truth was called gods word, gods word was exactly what made my world make sense, it confirmed me when I was right and told me what I did wrong, I needed so badly to know that :mad:
 
Kendall: Because when I had no one to trust and the law was wrong, a book called the bible had the answers and the truth was called gods word, gods word was exactly what made my world make sense, it confirmed me when I was right and told me what I did wrong, I needed so badly to know that :mad:
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M*W: That's the typical story of someone who's had a brush with the law. I feel sure you had a sense of what was right or what was wrong without the use of an emotional crutch. However, you read into it what you need to find as to the answers for which you are seeking. I can even understand that when one is incarcerated (for whatever reason), there is not much hope to be found from fellow inmates or from prison services, so the bible becomes a readily convenient source of assumed answers for the desperate when access to anything else doesn't exist.

In Texas, every inmate receives a new copy of the bible -- even if the inmate is Muslim or Jewish or Buddhist, they get their free bible. I would venture to say that many of them actually read it as there is not much reading material otherwise.

My point is, that one will glean from the bible (or any other book, for that matter) what one needs emotionally or intellectually, regardless of whether the book states the truth or not.

IMO, prison is not a very different scenario from church where one is told what to read and believe. One will find miracles when none are there. One will find hope, because they desperately want it to be there. One could even find salvation, because that's what they've been told to look for. It's not what is written on the page but what we have been brainwshed to perceive in the mind. If we go looking for it, we'll find it. I think it is better to look within oneself for the answers one needs. The answers are there, and they haven't been adulterated by the false perception of others.
 
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existabrent said:
I am posting this thread aganist my own good will.

The reason being, I wish to know why you believe in god because I can find nothing but bad for believing in him. ....................

The reason it is aganist my good will, is because this is only part of the problem.

So. Do you mind refreshing me, since I feel it is a useless Gesture entirely?
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Because they have told me a million times that he does,and I don't want to be barbecued in hell fire.
 
Why do you believe in God?

How about this one:

If humans didn't have the ability to reason, would any human believe in God?
 
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