why do women do this?

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

mikenostic: Ok so at that point when she invited him in and offered her drinks you do think she's leading him on, but

No not necessarily. Like Phlog insinuated, if the threadstarter were a gentlemen he would have not suggested the bed even if she did invite him in for drinks; his suggestion doesn't show her in good character it shows him up as a rogue! To invite someone in for drinks is one type of intimacy that relates to trust or trying to get to know someone better in an informal setting...it doesn't necessarily mean sex

Mike: you magically change your tune at the point that you automatically assume that going over to the bed was Chris' idea. Here's the exact content of the OP concerning that..

He doesn't add too much detail in the thread does he? No he says talk, dinner, her place, makeout, MOVE TOWARDS THE BED, ONLY TO HEAR HER SAY 'I'M NOT READY'. I'm no bloody detective but it seems to me a woman how is saying 'no I am not ready' must be responding to something. I am sure he wasn't keeping his hands to himself engaged in deep convo when she suddenly says 'I'm not ready'.

Mike:How do you interpret that this was Chris' idea? And even if it was his idea, how can you magically change your tune after the woman merely making one statement? WTF? She led him on. I see it. Chris sees it. Chris even said he talked to her after that and she apologized for leading him on.


This sounds so puerile 'she lead me on'. Let me clue you MEN DON'T TALK LIKE THIS!!!
Okay lets move on. If Chris says he was 'lead on' its because he wanted to have sex, men who don't want to have sex cannot be 'lead on'. Next chris says he now respects her for not being ready for sex, but its obvious he EXPECTED sex and was READY for sex or he wouldn't have felt lead on. All this is fine I just think it rich for him now to say if she had been willing to have sex when he obviously was interested her being a 'hot bombshell date' etc. she would have been a 'slut' for wanting what he also seemed to have wanted.

Micke:It seems to me you want to defend this woman regardless of what she did just to spite Chris for being after only one thing.

Rubbish. Hypersensitivity by an american male who sees a feminist hiding under every bed. Did it hurt when those she-males catrated your population? No wonder you're so defensive. Don't worry I am neither a male-basher nor a hater of a males natural instincts. Feel better now?

Mike: I prefer the term Rebel.

Like those children without a cause.

Where you chaperoning Chris at the time? Why don't you let him respond?

Haha. Chris is probably too busy. Out romancing the same woman!

 

[chris4355]

Chris, I don't think you have any place speaking for all men. Some of us hooked up on the first formal date and had it last for years.

There are exceptions with almost everything. Sometimes the bed is just where you end up no matter how "pure" your intentions prior to the date.

I don't think I'm perfect, particularly good looking, nice, etc... and when a girl is willing to hook up with me on a first date I just see her as a girl willing to hook up with any random guy.

No not necessarily. Like Phlog insinuated, if the threadstarter were a gentlemen he would have not suggested the bed even if she did invite him in for drinks; his suggestion doesn't show her in good character it shows him up as a rogue! To invite someone in for drinks is one type of intimacy that relates to trust or trying to get to know someone better in an informal setting...it doesn't necessarily mean sex

Why are you so offended by this situation? For all you know she led me on from the start. The problem is that you do not know what happened and I do. I have no reason to lie since frankly, I really do not see the point in doing so. Chill out Sherlock, you are not solving a case here.

He doesn't add too much detail in the thread does he? No he says talk, dinner, her place, makeout, MOVE TOWARDS THE BED, ONLY TO HEAR HER SAY 'I'M NOT READY'. I'm no bloody detective but it seems to me a woman how is saying 'no I am not ready' must be responding to something. I am sure he wasn't keeping his hands to himself engaged in deep convo when she suddenly says 'I'm not ready'.

Right, because you know everything. Do I have to write a book about this in order to keep you satisfied?

This sounds so puerile 'she lead me on'. Let me clue you MEN DON'T TALK LIKE THIS!!!

k, I guess I am not a man.

Okay lets move on. If Chris says he was 'lead on' its because he wanted to have sex, men who don't want to have sex cannot be 'lead on'. Next chris says he now respects her for not being ready for sex, but its obvious he EXPECTED sex and was READY for sex or he wouldn't have felt lead on. All this is fine I just think it rich for him now to say if she had been willing to have sex when he obviously was interested her being a 'hot bombshell date' etc. she would have been a 'slut' for wanting what he also seemed to have wanted.

Of course I wanted to have sex, I am not denying that. Hey if she wants to think I am a man-whore because I was willing to do it on the first night so be it.

You seem to have been really offended by the word "slut", while I was merely joking and am completely aware that I did not know much about her in the first place during that date. Am I allowed to make assumptions and judge people? Or are you going to make a scene about that too?

Where you chaperoning Chris at the time? Why don't you let him respond?

Why are you defending a random girl I went on a date with that you don't even know?

Maybe mike is just trying to put some sense into you.

Haha. Chris is probably too busy. Out romancing the same woman!

Actually not really, I ended up going paint balling over the week end.



I just need to make something clear for all you detectives in here trying to make your own scenarios...

I have no reason to make any of this up I am just telling the story how I saw it.

OBVIOUSLY If I pushed it for sex and she ended up saying she is not ready, then that's normal. And I would not have made a thread about this.

But that was not the case, she initiated it. I am not gonna say I did not make the first move in her living room but shes the one who went to the bed and in the heat of things changed her mind.

I am sure if you were starting sexy time with a guy and he did that you would end up just as confused.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

It was Mike who seemed offended. My intial response was "She has self-respect because she denies him sex. He only starts respecting her simply because she denies him sex. Says a lot of what he thinks of himself wouldn't you say! Can you imagine what he thinks of the dumb bitches who actually think he's sweet or sexy enough to take him on? Yikes"

Now what don't you get about this? You judge her of having good character for NOT having sex with you. At the same time you are accusing her of 'leading you on'. You praise her and then accuse her of being a tease. Don't you think this says more about you than her?

Chris: Right, because you know everything. Do I have to write a book about this in order to keep you satisfied?

How can I know everything when I said you offer little detail but give enough information for a reader to glean certain ideas, like the idea it was you who were fishing for some action not her.How do I know this? I know this because you say she is the one who ended the thing not you. You go on to praise her for showing self-control and not being a slut. I find that ironic.

Now if you didn't want the masses to speculate on what happened you wouldn't have posted the thread!!

Chris:k, I guess I am not a man.

Being male doesn't make a man anymore than being female makes a woman, so no men do not talk like that. Real men also don't go on public forums and discuss 'hottie dates' with strangers etc. that's frat house talk, the kind of talk expected of a boy not a man. Men also don't ponder over whether they have been lead on or not. The game changes with age and so does the dialogue.

Perhaps a little childish and hardly the mark of a gentlemen, if you doubt this assertion simply show this young woman the thread and see what reaction you get.

Chris: Of course I wanted to have sex, I am not denying that. Hey if she wants to think I am a man-whore because I was willing to do it on the first night so be it.

I know you wanted to have sex I am not implying there was something wrong with that. AGAIN I was simply pointing out the IRONY of you referring to her show of good character by not having sex with you and then saying if she had you may think of her as a slut. In other words she would be judged for doing what you yourself would want to do. Why is this not getting through?

Chris: You seem to have been really offended by the word "slut", while I was merely joking and am completely aware that I did not know much about her in the first place during that date. Am I allowed to make assumptions and judge people? Or are you going to make a scene about that too?

I am not the woman in question so why should I be offended? AGAIN! IT IS THE IRONY OF USING THE TERM SLUT TO DESCRIBE AN ACT YOU WERE READY TO PERFORM AT THE DROP OF A HAT. YOU WOULD MAKE ASSUMPTIONS OF HER AND PERHAPS JUDGE HER BUT YOU DO NOT SEE THE IRONY OF MAKING SUCH ASSUMPTIONS OF BEHAVIOUR YOU WERE READY TO ENGAGE IN IF SHE HAD ALLOWED IT! This is really quite simple. Actually it is you and Mike who now seem offended. I was simply pointing out an obvious absurdity but nevermind.

Chris: Why are you defending a random girl I went on a date with that you don't even know?

I AM NOT DEFENDING ANYONE! The chick doesn't need defending because she sent you home with...DARE I REMIND YOU...BLUEBALLS! Don't you get it? No you really don't do you.

Chris: have no reason to make any of this up I am just telling the story how I saw it.

Why on earth would I think you are making anything up?

Chris: OBVIOUSLY If I pushed it for sex and she ended up saying she is not ready, then that's normal. And I would not have made a thread about this.
But that was not the case, she initiated it. I am not gonna say I did not make the first move in her living room but shes the one who went to the bed and in the heat of things changed her mind.

Obviously she didn't initiate sex, from what you are saying she initiated everything but sex. She became intimate with you but she didn't want to take it further. But as I said before this is not my point! My point is not so much that she didn't want to have sex its the fact that you say you RESPECTED her for making such a decision which made me laugh because it says a lot about what you think of yourself. You also went on to say that if she had slept with you, you would have possibly thought of her as a slut which again hints to what you think of a girl who does choose to sleep with you.

My god this simple thing takes too much effort but I am sure if it were directed to anyone else you would have caught it right away. Nevermind.

Chris: I am sure if you were starting sexy time with a guy and he did that you would end up just as confused

Not in my experience.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

D.H Lawrence wrote in Women In Love:

"She was rich, full of dangerous power. She was like a strange unconscious bud of powerful womanhood. He was unconsciously drawn to her"..."He would never, never dare to break her will, and let loose the maelstrom of her subconsciousness….”


Hahaha! Rock on guys!

 

[Oli]

Being male doesn't make a man anymore than being female makes a woman

Yo Lucy!
:worship:

 

[codanblad]

I'm sorry but, most men have less respect for women who sleep around, this is not something new. It's not like we think sluts are "sub human", its just that we do not consider them to be people whom we would want to go anywhere beyond a casual hook up with.

When she offered me drinks and led me on to her room, that's exactly what I thought of her, and so would any other guy.

that or they're really into you. give em a chance man.

 

[phlogistician]

I have no reason to lie, I could leave this forum right now and no one would ever know me or affect me.

Yeah, why don't you give that a go. Leaving, that is.

No need to be in denial for being wrong buddy.

Well, you have admitted you were wrong, ie, thought you were going to get sex, but didn't. I don't quite know what you think you are denying.

 

[chris4355]

Now what don't you get about this? You judge her of having good character for NOT having sex with you. At the same time you are accusing her of 'leading you on'. You praise her and then accuse her of being a tease. Don't you think this says more about you than her?

I was just wondering why she changed her mind. Are you done with making things more complicated than they really are?

Now if you didn't want the masses to speculate on what happened you wouldn't have posted the thread!!

Maybe. All speculations asides thought some people gave good advice, before the detectives and self righteous people came in of course.

Being male doesn't make a man anymore than being female makes a woman, so no men do not talk like that. Real men also don't go on public forums and discuss 'hottie dates' with strangers etc. that's frat house talk, the kind of talk expected of a boy not a man. Men also don't ponder over whether they have been lead on or not. The game changes with age and so does the dialogue.

Oh I am so sorry Sherlock, I did not know I could not speak about this in the Free Thoughts sections of an internet forum. If you don't like frat house talk, then don't join the conversation. Its that simple.

Perhaps a little childish and hardly the mark of a gentlemen, if you doubt this assertion simply show this young woman the thread and see what reaction you get.

I was expecting this to be a 2 page discussion... I don't mind this though, gives me something to look forward to when I get home.



I know you wanted to have sex I am not implying there was something wrong with that. AGAIN I was simply pointing out the IRONY of you referring to her show of good character by not having sex with you and then saying if she had you may think of her as a slut. In other words she would be judged for doing what you yourself would want to do. Why is this not getting through?


I am not the woman in question so why should I be offended? AGAIN! IT IS THE IRONY OF USING THE TERM SLUT TO DESCRIBE AN ACT YOU WERE READY TO PERFORM AT THE DROP OF A HAT. YOU WOULD MAKE ASSUMPTIONS OF HER AND PERHAPS JUDGE HER BUT YOU DO NOT SEE THE IRONY OF MAKING SUCH ASSUMPTIONS OF BEHAVIOUR YOU WERE READY TO ENGAGE IN IF SHE HAD ALLOWED IT! This is really quite simple. Actually it is you and Mike who now seem offended. I was simply pointing out an obvious absurdity but nevermind.

Obviously she didn't initiate sex, from what you are saying she initiated everything but sex. She became intimate with you but she didn't want to take it further. But as I said before this is not my point! My point is not so much that she didn't want to have sex its the fact that you say you RESPECTED her for making such a decision which made me laugh because it says a lot about what you think of yourself. You also went on to say that if she had slept with you, you would have possibly thought of her as a slut which again hints to what you think of a girl who does choose to sleep with you.

My god this simple thing takes too much effort but I am sure if it were directed to anyone else you would have caught it right away. Nevermind.

Ok putting all side arguments aside, I think I need to tell you about the things everybody knows yet never talk about:

What you are complaining about is not just with me, you are complaining about the general norm that if a man has sex on a first date, or if a man has sex with 10 women in a month, then people think he's cool and the usual response is "good job". However if a woman does the exact same thing she gets a more negative response, people will think she is slutty etc...

I do not know why we choose to govern ourselves this way and I do see the fallacy, in fact I had discussed this with friends a long time ago and am very aware of it, I just came to accept it.

I am willing to betcha a million dollars that if a woman goes on a date with 50 guys and offers sex every time, she will get laid at least 45 times. And most of the guys who say shit like "oh no I would never do that" are either lying or just insecure. I would argue that only a very small percentage of them would actually think its wrong and would hold themselves up to it, props for them I guess...

Now, lets turn this around, if a man goes on a date with 50 women and offers sex everytime, he will get laid maybe like what? 8 times max?

It is generally accepted that women chose when to have sex, while men just always wanna do it.

Now, back to her...

If a girl plays hard to get, men automatically like her and respect her more. I don't know why and I do not understand it myself, but I am a sucker for it and its really annoying. Its amazing just how many girls I have not gone for because they acted too desperate or easy to get, maybe there is something wrong with me, but I doubt it, as this happens with people all around me all the time. Unlike them though I admit it.

Thats what I meant by respecting her, she held herself up, and showed that maybe she wants to wait it out.

She showed me that she just doesn't give it up for anyone and maybe there will be some more meaning to anything developing between us. I am not saying that sleeping with someone means nothing can develop, but I do know that sex can be much more emotional for some, and maybe they only want to share it with people they care about. That's all, and that's what made me "respect" her more, and its the reason why I would prefer keeping in touch with her than a girl I barely know who just puts out, whom I would just call to get laid here and there.

Oh and one more thing, you would have a much easier time getting your point across if you just change your tone up a bit.

 

[chris4355]

Yeah, why don't you give that a go. Leaving, that is.

Ok man I got it. You are the best at everything, a true gentleman. And I am a scumbag 22 year old jerk off.

Thumbs up, you win. I hope this useless flame war significantly increased your self esteem.

 

[chris4355]

that or they're really into you. give em a chance man.

I'm just speaking in general there are always exceptions.

 

[visceral_instinct]

She is just constipated....mentally, I mean....

 

[mikenostic]

Lucy, learn how to use the damn QUOTE tags already. Sheesh.

It was Mike who seemed offended. My intial response was "She has self-respect because she denies him sex. He only starts respecting her simply because she denies him sex. Says a lot of what he thinks of himself wouldn't you say! Can you imagine what he thinks of the dumb bitches who actually think he's sweet or sexy enough to take him on? Yikes"

I was offended because dumbasses like you automatically turn to defend the girl. You are advocating her wishy washy, change her mind on a whim behavior.
Just like I mention earlier, a woman has just as much right to change her mind on a whim as a man does to not call her anymore. One is not any worse than the other but you seem to be putting the woman's mentality on a pedestal while condemning the man's behavior. I will not stand for that. You can take your double standards and insert them where the sun doesn't shine, missy.

Being male doesn't make a man anymore than being female makes a woman, so no men do not talk like that. Real men also don't go on public forums and discuss 'hottie dates' with strangers etc.

Real women don't come on internet forums and defend those 'hottie dates' either. Who died and made you Chris' date's spokesperson anyway?
I helped Chris out because all you ladies were on here unjustly flaming him and unjustly condoning her. Fuck that.

that's frat house talk, the kind of talk expected of a boy not a man. Men also don't ponder over whether they have been lead on or not. The game changes with age and so does the dialogue.

And your response is 'snooty sorority bitch' talk. Big deal.

Perhaps a little childish and hardly the mark of a gentlemen, if you doubt this assertion simply show this young woman the thread and see what reaction you get.

yeah a very petty, defensive, knee-jerk reaction

I was simply pointing out an obvious absurdity but nevermind.

You mean like the absurdity of your novel-length responses?


Chris: Why are you defending a random girl I went on a date with that you don't even know?

I AM NOT DEFENDING ANYONE! The chick doesn't need defending because she sent you home with...DARE I REMIND YOU...BLUEBALLS! Don't you get it? No you really don't do you.

The length and detail of your defensive responses would indicate otherwise.


Lucy, you definitely sound like one of those women who would actually send Dick a hate mail message on www.menarebetterthanwomen.com.

Now, back to her...

If a girl plays hard to get, men automatically like her and respect her more. I don't know why and I do not understand it myself, but I am a sucker for it and its really annoying. Its amazing just how many girls I have not gone for because they acted too desperate or easy to get, maybe there is something wrong with me, but I doubt it, as this happens with people all around me all the time. Unlike them though I admit it.

I'm the total opposite. Playing hard to get is one of the biggest turn offs for me. I know for a fact that if a woman really likes a man, she isn't going to make it that hard for him. She might be subtle about it but she won't play hard to get.
I have better things to do with my time than chase a woman playing hard to get.
I don't like the desparate ones either. But if they are somewhat busy with their life, the won't need to play hard to get.

 

[Bells]

I'm the total opposite. Playing hard to get is one of the biggest turn offs for me. I know for a fact that if a woman really likes a man, she isn't going to make it that hard for him. She might be subtle about it but she won't play hard to get.
I have better things to do with my time than chase a woman playing hard to get.
I don't like the desparate ones either. But if they are somewhat busy with their life, the won't need to play hard to get.

So a girl who respects herself and doesn't 'spread them wide' on the first date is playing hard to get?

Interesting.

Yet if she did not play hard to get and simply "put out", she would be deemed a slut or a whore. But you are claiming that you know for a fact that if a woman really likes a man, she's just going to have sex with him because he wants it. It's all about him, isn't it? If she respects herself and doesn't sleep with the guy on the first date, she's playing hard to get. Issue there is that she's not respecting the guy's "authoritay" and giving him what he wants.

Of course you have better things to do than "chase a woman" who have self respect and won't just sleep with every Tom, Dick and Harry that she may happen to meet and go on a date with. Thankfully for you there are hookers who don't play hard to get and will make it about you if you pay her enough.

 

[mikenostic]

So a girl who respects herself and doesn't 'spread them wide' on the first date is playing hard to get?

Interesting.

No no no no! That's not the example I'm talking about concerning playing hard to get. DAMN!! Stop misunderstanding me. There are umpteen ways to 'play hard to get'; not returning phone calls when you are supposed to, showing up late for dates, sending mixed signals (heavily fliratious one minute, cold shoulder the next)...I could go on and on w/o even including the last minute 'I'm not ready' crap, on the list.**

Yet if she did not play hard to get and simply "put out", she would be deemed a slut or a whore. But you are claiming that you know for a fact that if a woman really likes a man, she's just going to have sex with him because he wants it. It's all about him, isn't it? If she respects herself and doesn't sleep with the guy on the first date, she's playing hard to get. Issue there is that she's not respecting the guy's "authoritay" and giving him what he wants.

*puts face in palms of hand and shakes head in disbelief* Bells, we've went over this before...ad nauseum.
I have no problem with a woman waiting. What I do have a problem with is when the woman waits until the last second and just up and changes her mind. There is not a fuckin man on this board (a 'real' one if you will) that will admit to enjoying when a woman just up and changes her mind.
And yes, if a woman ever up and does something like that to me, I will not return her phone calls. It's not the fact that she wouldn't sleep with me, it never has been. It's the fact that she blindsided him with 'I'm not ready yet' AFTER she invited him in for drinks and what not.

Of course you have better things to do than "chase a woman" who have self respect and won't just sleep with every Tom, Dick and Harry that she may happen to meet and go on a date with. Thankfully for you there are hookers who don't play hard to get and will make it about you if you pay her enough.

See resonse above about playing hard to get.
**I do not chase women. If they give me all the right signals however, I will make the next move. But if I get nothing or mixed signals, I won't go for it.

 

[chris4355]

So a girl who respects herself and doesn't 'spread them wide' on the first date is playing hard to get?

Interesting.

Yet if she did not play hard to get and simply "put out", she would be deemed a slut or a whore. But you are claiming that you know for a fact that if a woman really likes a man, she's just going to have sex with him because he wants it. It's all about him, isn't it? If she respects herself and doesn't sleep with the guy on the first date, she's playing hard to get. Issue there is that she's not respecting the guy's "authoritay" and giving him what he wants.

Of course you have better things to do than "chase a woman" who have self respect and won't just sleep with every Tom, Dick and Harry that she may happen to meet and go on a date with. Thankfully for you there are hookers who don't play hard to get and will make it about you if you pay her enough.

I think the guy just finds it attractive when a girl makes the move, and behaves as if she wants the guy.

You don't have to take his idea to the extreme...

 

[Orleander]

...I don't think I'm perfect, particularly good looking, nice, etc... and when a girl is willing to hook up with me on a first date I just see her as a girl willing to hook up with any random guy....

so a girl you know who sleeps with you on the first date is no different than a girl you have just met at a bar/party who sleeps with you that same night.

 

[chris4355]

so a girl you know who sleeps with you on the first date is no different than a girl you have just met at a bar/party who sleeps with you that same night.

Of course its different, I have never kept in touch with any girl I hooked up with at a party. (and I never go to bars)

I just think that if a girl puts out fast, she just as easily puts out to any other guy. I don't have this typical guy ego where I think I was the only one able to pull her pants down... thats all.

 

[Orleander]

Of course its different, I have never kept in touch with any girl I hooked up with at a party. (and I never go to bars)

I just think that if a girl puts out fast, she just as easily puts out to any other guy. I don't have this typical guy ego where I think I was the only one able to pull her pants down... thats all.

But then a guy who's trying to get into a girls pants on the first date is only after 1 thing and has no interest in a relationship. He's just a playa.

I guess I like to think you're both adults and you should be able to have sex when you want to without judging eachother.

 

[chris4355]

But then a guy who's trying to get into a girls pants on the first date is only after 1 thing and has no interest in a relationship. He's just a playa.

Actually the only way to get laid is if you don't ask for it, and don't even think about it during the date.

 

[Orleander]

why is it the woman's fault that the man is so easy.

 

[mikenostic]

But then a guy who's trying to get into a girls pants on the first date is only after 1 thing and has no interest in a relationship. He's just a playa.

I'm glad you brought this up Orly, because I disagree.
Most every guy given the opportunity, will try to sleep with a girl on the first date, or at least try. It's up to the girl to say stop as soon as she can if she doesn't want to sleep with him.
I guess it's just the guy's test for girls. Don't sit there and tell me you ladies don't test us guys. You do and you have no right to complain when we do testing of our own.
The only thing I expect on a first date (and only if I thought it went great and she did too) is a kiss. If she won't even at least kiss me, I know right then there will be no second date.
If I got invited in like Chris did, I'd probably just keep my hands to myself and let her initiate anything; because I dont' want to get all into it only to have her say, I'm not ready. I'd rather just stay calm and think about/plan for the next date.

I guess I like to think you're both adults and you should be able to have sex when you want to without judging eachother.

'should be able to', but unfortunately, it never works that way. People judge each other harshly and unjustly quite often.