why do women do this?
- Thread starter chris4355
- Start date
Chris:I was just wondering why she changed her mind. Are you done with making things more complicated than they really are?
This isn't complicated. We change our minds, sometimes for a variety of reasons, sometimes for no reason. It could be whim, it could be game (to make you want her more). It doesn't matter why she changed her mind. And its frankly amusing that that one little move on her part has your mind all twisted with question marks! Its a sign that you have been seduced. This isn't complicated either ask her out on a second date or not! Better yet, ask her out and ask her why yourself? But you would never do that would you. Haha! I am not suggesting you should either.
Well I mentioned in a previous post that we did end up talking about it, and she brought it up.
Chrish I am so sorry Sherlock, I did not know I could not speak about this in the Free Thoughts sections of an internet forum. If you don't like frat house talk, then don't join the conversation. Its that simple.
Who said you couldn't or shouldnt bring it up? I was making an observation which is the right of anyone on an open forum. If you dont like the responses then keep the personal to yourself and pm a friend. ITS THAT SIMPLE!
You were making statements saying "real men dont go on public forums talking about this blablabla, this is frat talk" if you find the topic absurd don't take part in it is all I am saying.
Chris:What you are complaining about is not just with me, you are complaining about the general norm that if a man has sex on a first date, or if a man has sex with 10 women in a month, then people think he's cool and the usual response is "good job". However if a woman does the exact same thing she gets a more negative response, people will think she is slutty etc...
NO ONE IS COMPLAINING!!! I MADE AN OBSERVATION! You are the one who had the complaint, you are the one who went home with blueballs and is asking why why why. You are the one who complains she teased your cock! The fact of the matter is that your above statement doesn't apply to this girl because you DIDN'T have sex with her, so she isn't a slut is she...or rather I will say she didn't play the slut with you. Fact is that she is in control of the circumstances not you, you say this is normal. Well then why are you bothered? She will act when, how and if she chooses. Not knowing how to seduce you will just have to wait. And just to clue you only in college or high school do other men think its cool to have sex with 10 women in a month. Most men would either think another man SHARING such a thing is either: lying or paying for it (sign that somethings wrong with him). Either way its not a show of virility as it would be at 19 or 20 as boys sit around a keg, its a sign that something is wrong. A woman wouldn't need to sleep with 10 men in a month unless she is a prostitute so its a little outside of normal experience to use the above as an example.
Its just an example, and it proves a point. Now, for the 200th time, there's a difference between a woman saying no. And a woman making out with you, then leading you to her bed room, and as things start to heat up she says no.
Chris: I do not know why we choose to govern ourselves this way and I do see the fallacy, in fact I had discussed this with friends a long time ago and am very aware of it, I just came to accept it.
Okay stop pretending as if you really care about the generalizations or double-standards that govern gender sexuality. The thread didn't address this at all but lets pretend you do care. You say:
"am willing to betcha a million dollars that if a woman goes on a date with 50 guys and offers sex every time, she will get laid at least 45 times. And most of the guys who say shit like "oh no I would never do that" are either lying or just insecure. I would argue that only a very small percentage of them would actually think its wrong and would hold themselves up to it, props for them I guess... Now, lets turn this around, if a man goes on a date with 50 women and offers sex everytime, he will get laid maybe like what? 8 times max? It is generally accepted that women chose when to have sex, while men just always wanna do it."
Ok Chris I am going to try this one more time: If you believe the above then why are you asking why she wouldnt have sex with you? Why? If she had sex with you you would have thought her a slut, right? DO YOU GET IT NOW!!! NO ONE IS COMPLAINING! ITS YOUR QUESTIONS AND MUSINGS THAT ARE ABSURD GIVEN WHAT YOU SAY YOU KNOW ABOUT MOTIVATION.
Again, same argument, She led me to her bed and changed her mind right there. Theres a difference. I thought I made that clear...
Chris:If a girl plays hard to get, men automatically like her and respect her more. I don't know why and I do not understand it myself, but I am a sucker for it and its really annoying. Its amazing just how many girls I have not gone for because they acted too desperate or easy to get, maybe there is something wrong with me, but I doubt it, as this happens with people all around me all the time. Unlike them though I admit it.
Okay Chris so she did the right thing. You think she did the right thing by denying you sex. SO AGAIN...WHY DO YOU ASK 'WHY DID SHE CHANGE HER MIND?' Why ask such an absurd question when you admit you would think of her as a 'slut' if she had. What is there to question? less even discuss? Unless of course you wanted to flaunt your situation which again I say is the response of a young man who isn't accustomed to such adventures. Its a scenerio Casanova would have thought a yawn so please don't go on about what 'most men' would do or think, you don't know what men would do, you are not there yet, you are still practicing and figuring it all out. This is not a put down simply an observation based on what you say and the circumstance you outlined. No need for a watson to collaborate.
Once again. Theres a difference between a woman saying good night at her door and you kiss goodbye, and a woman who leads you in, offers drinks, holds your hand and leads you to her bed, and THEN changes her mind.
Chris: If a girl plays hard to get, men automatically like her and respect her more. I don't know why and I do not understand it myself, but I am a sucker for it and its really annoying. Its amazing just how many girls I have not gone for because they acted too desperate or easy to get, maybe there is something wrong with me, but I doubt it, as this happens with people all around me all the time. Unlike them though I admit it.Thats what I meant by respecting her, she held herself up, and showed that maybe she wants to wait it out. She showed me that she just doesn't give it up for anyone and maybe there will be some more meaning to anything developing between us. I am not saying that sleeping with someone means nothing can develop, but I do know that sex can be much more emotional for some, and maybe they only want to share it with people they care about. That's all, and that's what made me "respect" her more, and its the reason why I would prefer keeping in touch with her than a girl I barely know who just puts out, whom I would just call to get laid here and there.
Has it occurred to you that perhaps this woman is a better gamester than yourself and has more experience? You ask her out, she gives you a bit of a nibble and then retreats and sends you home to nurse your balls. Now you are online discussing the little question marks running around your head, now you are positing questions answers to which you say you have. It seems as though she is,wittingly or unwittingly the seductress and you are the seduced. She is the one who is pulling your string and in control of the situation...not you! So either you can expect she will get bored because you are too easily managed, or she will obey the 'rules' and pull you into a long-term love relationship grabbing hold of you mind, heart and loins. Its a game, all seductions are games but you don't know that because you are just 'dating' you are unaware. And you have the nerve to imply she needs 'defending'. Ha!
Rules of seduction by Robert Greene:
A. approach indirectly
B. send mixed signals
C. Appear to be an object of desire
Looks as if she has you between B & C
No, she had me at "don't take my bra off I just changed my mind".
There's a difference lucy, between saying no before anything happens, and saying no in the jist of it.
Lucy, you don't give away the trademark secrets. You can't do that; you don't speak for the Club!
Hardly a secret...
Trust me I'm fine. I find this thread rather amusing at this point. Especially since we already went out again.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
We also found this all very amusing.
Ah I get it. This is about your ego!
You can't understand that a woman would not want to have sex with you on your terms, every time.
So anyone that questions you, you label as judgmental, and having a superior attitude, when you should be questioning your own arrogance.
You got turned down. Deal with it. It happens, but you know what? When it does, you don't need to get out the big paintbrush, and ask 'Why do women do this?'. To ask such shows naivety, and rather a lack of respect for women in general. But then it appears that you were guilty of using, and objectifying women anyway.
This is a public forum, who gives a crap. People can discuss whatever they want, don't feed me this horseshit.
How is it a lack of respect? Its just relationship and dating talk. Its not like I posted a picture of her with her name and address, for all you know this never happened. I don't see where the lack of respect part comes in. I don't think you see it either, you just enjoy pointing a finger.
This entire thread all you did was flame from start, while I responded to everything you said. You were unable to do so and gave me one line answers followed by you preaching about how great you are at every response.
Again, if you think I am so naive, disrespectful, selfish etc; while you are "a gentleman who brags about it"... Why do you bother arguing with me? Just ignore this whole thing and move on, oh great one.
Naughty. I'm in there. Ouch.
I do take exception, though, at some of Greene's conclusions.
He doesn't address the man who might think too much, preferring instead to make a case based on negative reasoning.
e.g. "Anti-seducers repel, so be repelled-avoid them.".
Now here is a (presumably) successful man in the world of seduction - therefore any who aren't as successful are simply not as able as he to seduce.. or be seduced. Note the mocking air of this passage?
He's saying "Screw them. Actually, don't. You should be with someone like me." And to a certain extent, he is absolutely right. Evolution, survival of the fittest, all that.
But it sounds to me, based on this one passage (note: I have not read this book, only the quoted passage) that this is exactly the same thing as the guy who walks up to your girlfriend in a nightclub and says "Hey, ditch this loser and come out with me, baby".
I want to note at this point that most of the more successful "relationships" (Bullshit. I haven't ever had one worth talking about) I've had have started after I've sized up/been attracted (same thing, in my book) to a woman from a distance, waited for a suitable social occasion and then acted upon it.
In other words, we've fucked liked bunnies on the first "date" and I've decided I liked her enough to stay with her for a while. I like girls who do the same thing. And I hold no grudges against those who decide, like I might, that it isn't worth it.
Every post in this thread is a resume. Yes? The curriculum vitae. Does the title of any thread on this board actually matter? OT.
I'll say more after I hear the responses of you two, specifically, to this.
(Hey. Don't talk to those guys. Talk to me.) *chuckle*
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Muersalt: He doesn't address the man who might think too much, preferring instead to make a case based on negative reasoning.
But that's the point, the man who thinks too much is unlikely to enter into a seduction. Seduction is about fun creating an aura around yourself and another person, how can you have fun and enter a game if you are thinking too much trying to protect yourself at every move? Its the game of coquetry not chess, its the art of the romantic dalliance not warfare. I don't think Greene is being mocking he's just saying don't waste time attempting to seduce someone who already repels.
He does outline some funny labels for the anti-seducers: The suffocators, the moralizers, the tightwads, the bumblers, the windbags, the reactors and the vulgarians.
If you think about it you also reject those who are repellent, we all do. Seduction is about charm. You add "that this is exactly the same thing as the guy who walks up to your girlfriend in a nightclub and says "Hey, ditch this loser and come out with me, baby". I don't see how you come to that conclusion, a line like that isn't chaming its repelling, its too direct, to seduce is to disarm.
But that's the point, the man who thinks too much is unlikely to enter into a seduction. Seduction is about fun creating an aura around yourself and another person, how can you have fun and enter a game if you are thinking too much trying to protect yourself at every move? Its the game of coquetry not chess, its the art of the romantic dalliance not warfare. I don't think Greene is being mocking he's just saying don't waste time attempting to seduce someone who already repels.
He does outline some funny labels for the anti-seducers: The suffocators, the moralizers, the tightwads, the bumblers, the windbags, the reactors and the vulgarians.
If you think about it you also reject those who are repellent, we all do. Seduction is about charm. You add "that this is exactly the same thing as the guy who walks up to your girlfriend in a nightclub and says "Hey, ditch this loser and come out with me, baby". I don't see how you come to that conclusion, a line like that isn't chaming its repelling, its too direct, to seduce is to disarm.
Bitch.
I know.
I miss it.
Circumstances.
Fuck us all up, sometimes.
Working on it.
(really.)
He's a male. He's being mocking... just in a way you sympathize with.
You girls sometimes under estimate the male psyche. Pro quarterback, gun midfielder, fast bowler, mercenary... author... guy who knows what all these things really are and says so.
Same thing.
Don't we all, though, in an attempt to eliminate the competition?
Some are better at that than others. In this medium, it's all rhetoric. IRL, it's combined with presence.
Cerebral girl, non-cerebral girl.... what's the difference?
Sometimes scratching your nose means you have an itchy nose.
Sometimes a question mark is actually a question.
But it works, sometimes. Doesn't it.
It works when you are already bored with the one you're with, and are looking for an alternative.
It works if you are not you, perhaps?
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Relax Meursalt it will come when you are relaxed.
Greene is simply illustrating what we all unconsciously do unawares and its not a 'male' thing, since many of the best seducers are women.
M: Don't we all, though, in an attempt to eliminate the competition?
Don't we all what? This isn't about competition its about seduction. Its not about getting so and so from so and so. Its about entering someones spirit. For some reason I don't think we are talking about the same thing but I could be wrong.
M:But it works, sometimes. Doesn't it.
It works when you are already bored with the one you're with, and are looking for an alternative.
Now I know we aren't on the same page! What works sometimes? Be exact please. Are you saying you are only seduced when you are already in relationship? I don't understand what you're trying to express exactly.
M: It works if you are not you, perhaps?
No, I disagree with that statement. Pretense and artifice isn't charming, it gets sniffed out!
Greene is simply illustrating what we all unconsciously do unawares and its not a 'male' thing, since many of the best seducers are women.
M: Don't we all, though, in an attempt to eliminate the competition?
Don't we all what? This isn't about competition its about seduction. Its not about getting so and so from so and so. Its about entering someones spirit. For some reason I don't think we are talking about the same thing but I could be wrong.
M:But it works, sometimes. Doesn't it.
It works when you are already bored with the one you're with, and are looking for an alternative.
Now I know we aren't on the same page! What works sometimes? Be exact please. Are you saying you are only seduced when you are already in relationship? I don't understand what you're trying to express exactly.
M: It works if you are not you, perhaps?
No, I disagree with that statement. Pretense and artifice isn't charming, it gets sniffed out!
I'll get back to you tomorrow, Lucy.
One or two things I'll concede, one or two I won't.
Which is why we're here, non?
If not tomorrow, in a few days. Heading out to Gunn Point again shortly. I have a photo of Ophiolite. You'll love it, I think.
(and therein might lie a demonstration)
One or two things I'll concede, one or two I won't.
Which is why we're here, non?
If not tomorrow, in a few days. Heading out to Gunn Point again shortly. I have a photo of Ophiolite. You'll love it, I think.
(and therein might lie a demonstration)
All this talk about charm and seduction... you'd think Greene was a female with all those romantic notions. I'd rather go out with some confident guy than to go home with some pansy who promised to make sweet love to me. Sometimes, whether or not we women want to admit it, we just want to get fucked. We want excitment more than we want to feel loved. That's why the nice guys finish last.
It's all about the sex. If you show the woman you want it, it will score you points. Here's where women screw it up though... they make it all romantic, candlelit dinners and warm soft kisses. Men don't care about that shit but get on your knees and give them mindblowing fellatio and he'll be entranced for life. That's the power. It's not about the spirit... unless of course you swallow too.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Well liebling then you and Greene are on the same page. Who said its always sweet? Seduction is excitement. Getting fucked is another matter entirely, seduction is about what goes on in the head as it trickles down in between the legs.. A sweaty alpha in a bar will suffice for a fuck but it can be a bit boring as well if its just about jab jab and lick lick. Showing a woman that you 'want it' is desire and all women respond to desire but I don't see how that is any different from said seduction.
How can you have excitement if there's no build up? No tension?
We love rogues but no one needs a book to know that.
I do disagree that the power lies on how well we suck on a dick, any ole bitch can suck on a dick and I hear its better if she has no teeth. The power dear lies elsewhere unless of course all you simply want is for him to release his jizm, zip up and head straight for the door.
How can you have excitement if there's no build up? No tension?
We love rogues but no one needs a book to know that.
I do disagree that the power lies on how well we suck on a dick, any ole bitch can suck on a dick and I hear its better if she has no teeth. The power dear lies elsewhere unless of course all you simply want is for him to release his jizm, zip up and head straight for the door.
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Plenty of build up in your own mind. I don't need a man to seduce me, I do fine increasing that tension on my own. Based of course on the bulge I can spot and the look of hunger I can see, sure... but he may not even be directing this at me and it still turns me on. I don't need the touchy feely garbage, but I'm pretty pragmatic and we are all animals. Why do we need them to be the aggressor part of it?
It's women that confuse the game and make it all about themselves. I don't need seduction to feel confident and secure, and Greene puts way too much weight on the ego and emotion in this circumstance. It's about the winning play, and not the insignificant plays in between. A guy knows how many times he's not gotten laid, more than he remembers the times he did... except when it's a particularly good game.
I'm treated like a queen... not because I hold out, or because I demand to be treated that way, but because I recognize need and fufill it to the best of my ability. I always bring my A game, and I don't always get in it for the win. I don't expect to be seduced, I am receptive enough to just know or I take it myself because I have the need. I don't understand why we have to confuse all of it with an emotional massage.
What I am saying is that seduction is intentional... and it's not always needed. Some people like it, but only because of their own ego.
It's women that confuse the game and make it all about themselves. I don't need seduction to feel confident and secure, and Greene puts way too much weight on the ego and emotion in this circumstance. It's about the winning play, and not the insignificant plays in between. A guy knows how many times he's not gotten laid, more than he remembers the times he did... except when it's a particularly good game.
I'm treated like a queen... not because I hold out, or because I demand to be treated that way, but because I recognize need and fufill it to the best of my ability. I always bring my A game, and I don't always get in it for the win. I don't expect to be seduced, I am receptive enough to just know or I take it myself because I have the need. I don't understand why we have to confuse all of it with an emotional massage.
What I am saying is that seduction is intentional... and it's not always needed. Some people like it, but only because of their own ego.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Who said we need men to be the aggessors? What makes you think seduction is something men only do to women? Where do you get the idea that seduction is about giving someone the feeling of confidence and security? Actually I would say the opposite, its about keeping someone off-kilter. Security makes people take you for granted.
The winning play you speak of is made by a series of moves not just one unless you are playing with someone who's too easily wooed. You know, the ones whom you have at hello.
Liebling: I'm treated like a queen... not because I hold out, or because I demand to be treated that way, but because I recognize need and fufill it to the best of my ability
How is that any different from this: "The right victims are those whom you can fill a void...They are often isolated or unhappy, or can easily be made so for the completely contented person is almost impossible to seduce" Greene
There is always an emotional message, even if its a swift kick in the loins or a grab and shag.
Liebling: What I am saying is that seduction is intentional... and it's not always needed. Some people like it, but only because of their own ego.
Well this I agree with, yes seduction is intentional but the best seducers are those where the knack is innate, always catching something in their net even when they aren't fishing. As far as the ego goes I am not sure if you mean those who feel the need to constantly seduce like a don juan or those who are always ready to swoon.
The winning play you speak of is made by a series of moves not just one unless you are playing with someone who's too easily wooed. You know, the ones whom you have at hello.
Liebling: I'm treated like a queen... not because I hold out, or because I demand to be treated that way, but because I recognize need and fufill it to the best of my ability
How is that any different from this: "The right victims are those whom you can fill a void...They are often isolated or unhappy, or can easily be made so for the completely contented person is almost impossible to seduce" Greene
There is always an emotional message, even if its a swift kick in the loins or a grab and shag.
Liebling: What I am saying is that seduction is intentional... and it's not always needed. Some people like it, but only because of their own ego.
Well this I agree with, yes seduction is intentional but the best seducers are those where the knack is innate, always catching something in their net even when they aren't fishing. As far as the ego goes I am not sure if you mean those who feel the need to constantly seduce like a don juan or those who are always ready to swoon.
I would yank out all my teeth if I believed this were true.
Yes, any old bitch can suck a dick. Plenty even get paid for it, but do it because you enjoy it, and it's a whole other ball game. It's about the skill and passion you put into your craft that would keep him coming back. If you fool yourself into believing most men will stick around without the sex, try not having it for a few months and see how much his attitude changes. The nice guys will stay and make you wish you had left, the exciting ones won't.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Do it because you enjoy it goes without saying, there is no worse experience than having someone perform without passion or pleasure...yet still I will keep my teeth thank you.
You are reading things that aren't there if you heard that men stick around without sex or that this is a welcome tactic. No one here has referred to sexless relations but that doesn't mean its wise to throw yourself on his loins after hello how are you. You have to feel these things unless of course you simply want a shag and a cigarette.
You are reading things that aren't there if you heard that men stick around without sex or that this is a welcome tactic. No one here has referred to sexless relations but that doesn't mean its wise to throw yourself on his loins after hello how are you. You have to feel these things unless of course you simply want a shag and a cigarette.
By them, I meant the other side... no matter the gender since gender is relative to interest.
lucysnow said:
Ah, because I don't look for victims, or people who need a void filled. Because for those people, you can give until you bleed and they will still have a void. I don't like victims, victims are pathetic.
lucysnow said:
Seduction is intentional, but it can be incidental with some people. I was seduced once by someone who did not mean to be charming or seductive, and the game was all in my head. That kind of power is mythical though, and too often people who have that kind of presence are just filled with lies and intent and it spoils the game all together.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
What other side? The seducer or the seduced?
When you speak of their need you make them sound like your victims. If you are intentionally seducing and they don't see you coming then they are indeed your victim.
Just to clarify for those who are reading, we can't confuse wanting the person with wanting their sex.
When you speak of their need you make them sound like your victims. If you are intentionally seducing and they don't see you coming then they are indeed your victim.
Just to clarify for those who are reading, we can't confuse wanting the person with wanting their sex.