Why do people join the occult?
- Thread starter Woody
- Start date
SG:
Wake up. Clinton refused to take Ben Laden as a prisoner from Angola. It wasn't "politically correct." Wake up dude. Are you going to deny this fact?
There is no place in the democratic party for me anymore.
I am a white, male, married, have children, obey the law, go to church, and I'm middle class. The demos have absolutely nothing to offer for me --a big flat zero.
The repubs aren't a lot better. They are mainly looking out for corporate america, at the expense of working people. But then again we can thank Clinton for NAFTA, and the resulting wholesale slaughter of the working class.
I am ready to vote for a third party: how about the american party for the preservation of the middle class america. They have my vote.
Wake up. Clinton refused to take Ben Laden as a prisoner from Angola. It wasn't "politically correct." Wake up dude. Are you going to deny this fact?
There is no place in the democratic party for me anymore.
I am a white, male, married, have children, obey the law, go to church, and I'm middle class. The demos have absolutely nothing to offer for me --a big flat zero.
The repubs aren't a lot better. They are mainly looking out for corporate america, at the expense of working people. But then again we can thank Clinton for NAFTA, and the resulting wholesale slaughter of the working class.
I am ready to vote for a third party: how about the american party for the preservation of the middle class america. They have my vote.
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Bin Laden was not arrested in Angola, so I do deny that "fact". What I think you are referring to is the offer by Sudan's President Omar Hassan Ahmed Bashir in 1996 to arrest him, and extradite him to Saudi Arabia or keep him under their observation in an attempt to lift the sanctions placed on Sudan. Why were sanctions placed on Sudan? ...for supporting terrorism. Why ask a country we were about to bomb for political favors? They might not have been able to arrest him anyway. Who knows what Sudan's motives were. What about repeated attempts by the Clinton Administration to gain increased funding for anti-terrorism which were blocked by the Republican Congress? The Republican congress' crusade against Clinton is what made going to war in Afghanistan politically impossible.
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Health care
Social Security
A sane foriegn policy that doesn't create terrorists
A sound fiscal policy that doesn't increase the national debt
Environmental regulations, so your kids don't ingest mercury
A sound energy policy not designed by the energy industry
Education funding
and more...
You mean in 2006? Because that's the next important election.Woody said:
In 2008? I don't know yet, Hillary would be good.
I'm not going to celebrate tax cuts in a time of war, when the national debt is almost at it's limit, and social spending is so low that here in Oregon the mentally ill are so desperate, because their low income housing assistance is being cut off, that one guy brandished a knife in the state building. You greedy bastard, that money is coming out of the hands of the poor, and the dreadful state this country is in will come back to haunt you and me, unless you are one of the increasing number of people walling themselves off from the harsh reality of Bush's America in gated communities. They choose not to notice through tinted SUV windows the increasing numbers of poor people with cardboard signs asking for money. With their big tires, they don't notice the potholes of a crumbling infrastructure. ...and with Fox News, they only hear good propaganda about the holy war on terror, while the 'con policy keeps creating more terror where there was none before, and their attention is transfixed on the death of a brainless woman's body.
SG:
I remember in the late 70s, when Jimmy Carter closed down mental hospitals expecting the families to take care of the patients. Most of them ended up wandering on the streets. Our preacher said it was about the cruelest thing he's ever seen a president do to anyone.
Me greedy? I was on unemployment last year. I had to forgo medical insurance. I have a family to take care of and I'm down $9,000 from this time last year. We're trying to figure how we are going to pay next month's bills. I live in rental housing , does that make me greedy? I try to help poor people out of my own pocket.
The problem, SG, is that nobody in government will fix the screwing we are all getting from corporate america. We take paycuts while the executives get a 1000% increase in their salaries over the last ten years. Who has the balls to fix that problem? Compensated like entrepreneurs with no risk of their own, and who bears that risk might I ask you? Answer: employees and investors. Corporate america has their own elite class of executives while the rest of us are second class. Our counterparts in government are much better compensated than the private sector, and their benifits are also better.
So who is going to fix this mess before america's middle class goes extinct? The democratic solution is to make everyone equal by making them equally poor. The republican solution is no good either. Who is going to fix it before we are all on welfare (boy wouldn't the demos like that)?
I'm sick of both parties.
You wanna see how the democrats lost the last election:
Another liberal Massachusetts senator bites the dust. The democrats need to have a better platform than who's doin who.
I remember in the late 70s, when Jimmy Carter closed down mental hospitals expecting the families to take care of the patients. Most of them ended up wandering on the streets. Our preacher said it was about the cruelest thing he's ever seen a president do to anyone.
Me greedy? I was on unemployment last year. I had to forgo medical insurance. I have a family to take care of and I'm down $9,000 from this time last year. We're trying to figure how we are going to pay next month's bills. I live in rental housing , does that make me greedy? I try to help poor people out of my own pocket.
The problem, SG, is that nobody in government will fix the screwing we are all getting from corporate america. We take paycuts while the executives get a 1000% increase in their salaries over the last ten years. Who has the balls to fix that problem? Compensated like entrepreneurs with no risk of their own, and who bears that risk might I ask you? Answer: employees and investors. Corporate america has their own elite class of executives while the rest of us are second class. Our counterparts in government are much better compensated than the private sector, and their benifits are also better.
So who is going to fix this mess before america's middle class goes extinct? The democratic solution is to make everyone equal by making them equally poor. The republican solution is no good either. Who is going to fix it before we are all on welfare (boy wouldn't the demos like that)?
I'm sick of both parties.
You wanna see how the democrats lost the last election:
Another liberal Massachusetts senator bites the dust. The democrats need to have a better platform than who's doin who.
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I agree with what you're saying about corporations, perhaps we should tax them more. The mental hospital closings were the result of Ronald Raygun, not Carter...
The democratic solution is to tax the rich, which worked in the Clinton years, we even had a surplus and a balanced budget.
The middle class was created through labor regulation and labor unions, especially minimum wage laws. I say increase the minimum wage.
Sorry you are having financial trouble. Why did you get a family if you can't afford it?
The democratic solution is to tax the rich, which worked in the Clinton years, we even had a surplus and a balanced budget.
No, that's how the neo-cons won, by exploiting the gay marriage issue. The dems are on the moral side of this, it's a civil rights issue, they did the right thing. I respect them for that. California's supreme court now rules that it was unconstitutional to ban gay marriage, the rest of the country will follow, with the exception, prehaps, of the backwater hick states.
The middle class was created through labor regulation and labor unions, especially minimum wage laws. I say increase the minimum wage.
Sorry you are having financial trouble. Why did you get a family if you can't afford it?
On subject,
I know one person who is Christian AND Wiccan, how do you explain that?
I know one person who is Christian AND Wiccan, how do you explain that?
SG said,
If you wait until you can afford to have kids, then you will probably not have them.
Besides, it didn't start that way. I'm from one of the states that has been NAFTA-sized. I'm orginally from NC. NAFTA killed our economy in NC. Washington decided which industries were going to win and which were going to lose. Textiles, furniture, and tobacco were all crapped on.
They also deregulated the power indusrty where I worked as an engineer for almost 8 years. I lost my job. I hope everyone is happy with their power grid now. I won't be helping anymore. Anybody's power rates going down I might ask? Power Executive salaries have gone up immensely. Nothing like a free market solution eh?
By the way I was around when Carter dumped those mentally ill people on the streets. That was before Regan was elected. I remember it well. Carter thought the other family members would take care of those poor mentally ill people. They were walking the streets before Regan was elected. I remember.
If you wait until you can afford to have kids, then you will probably not have them.
Besides, it didn't start that way. I'm from one of the states that has been NAFTA-sized. I'm orginally from NC. NAFTA killed our economy in NC. Washington decided which industries were going to win and which were going to lose. Textiles, furniture, and tobacco were all crapped on.
They also deregulated the power indusrty where I worked as an engineer for almost 8 years. I lost my job. I hope everyone is happy with their power grid now. I won't be helping anymore. Anybody's power rates going down I might ask? Power Executive salaries have gone up immensely. Nothing like a free market solution eh?
By the way I was around when Carter dumped those mentally ill people on the streets. That was before Regan was elected. I remember it well. Carter thought the other family members would take care of those poor mentally ill people. They were walking the streets before Regan was elected. I remember.
SG,
I don't have an explanation for it. All I can say is that a servant can't have two masters and still be a servant.
I would ask him why he/she believes he.she is a christian. If he is a christian, why does God allow him/her to be a Wiccan at the same time. This about like saying he/she is a christian atheist or a christian alchoholic or a christian homosexual. There is a big issue to resolve with incompatible lifestyles.
I don't have an explanation for it. All I can say is that a servant can't have two masters and still be a servant.
I would ask him why he/she believes he.she is a christian. If he is a christian, why does God allow him/her to be a Wiccan at the same time. This about like saying he/she is a christian atheist or a christian alchoholic or a christian homosexual. There is a big issue to resolve with incompatible lifestyles.
Woody, your very poll reflects your bias in looking at the issue of the occult. Primarily because you left off the most significant reason that people turn to the occult at all. You poll makes the assumption that mental imbalance, desire for power, etc. are the goals. It ignores the most basic and common reasons. Indeed, the poll appears to assume that the occult is only that which relates to the satanic or anti-christian practices.
The word "occult" is from the Latin occultus and means "hidden," referring to the hidden knowledge of the supernatural.
But what is that most common reason for joining the various organizations of the occult? A sense of belonging while being counter-culture. Creating an age-group identity that excludes those older age groups. All while still satisfying their needs to believe in something.
That, of course is my opinion, but I think if I looked at the research on the "occult" it would prevail.
The word "occult" is from the Latin occultus and means "hidden," referring to the hidden knowledge of the supernatural.
But what is that most common reason for joining the various organizations of the occult? A sense of belonging while being counter-culture. Creating an age-group identity that excludes those older age groups. All while still satisfying their needs to believe in something.
That, of course is my opinion, but I think if I looked at the research on the "occult" it would prevail.
This is my evaluation of the results from the poll. Very interesting I must say.
People that join the occult think they receive supernatural power (answer all that apply):
(1) They are probably crazy: 8
(2) They were probably Christians at some time: 12
(3) There is no supernatural power: 10
(4) They possibly could receive some sort of power: 5
(5) It is very likely they receive supernatural power: 3
(6) It is ludicrous to think any of them kill people as sacrifices: 9
(7) There are probably some that do kill people as sacrifices: 5
(8) It is very likely that some kill people as sacrifices: 4
(9) I don't know or believe in a God or Gods: 11
(10) I do believe in a God or Gods: 5
Voters: 21.
First of all this poll allowed several choices, and I think some people did not realize this, but I will proceed as though everyone took the poll correctly
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Observation A: 21 people voted but (9) & (10) only received 16 votes hence 5 people are neither atheists or theists but they do not deny the possibility of the supernatural.
Conclusion A1: I am inclined to believe 5 people are from the eastern religions, the occult, or possibly undecided about a God or Gods.
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Observation B: 10 people deny the possibility of supernatural phenomena ref(3) but 11 people are atheists ref(9).
Conclusion B1: 1 atheist is an outlier data point (very interesting). What does this person believe?
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Observation C: 5 people believe there is a diety according to (10), but 8 people believe occultist could receive supernatural power according to (4) & (5). The difference is 3 people.
Conclusion C1: 3 of the 5 people from Conclusion A1 are likely eastern religions or some form of the occult that does not believe in a god, but they believe in supernatural power. 2 of the 5 people from Conclusion A1 are unexplained (very interesting).
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Observation D: 8 people believe occultists are crazy ref(1), 8 people believe occultists receive supernatural power from (4) & (5) and 9 people believe occultists could offer human sacrifices from (7) & (8).
Conclusion D1: This is very interesting. because at least one person does not believe it is crazy to offer a human sacrifice: (7)&(8)-(1)= 5+4-8=1.
Conclusion D2: There are at least 4 people that think occultists could offer human sacrifices, but they don't believe there is a God or Gods. (7)+(8)-(10)=9-5=4
Conclusion D3: It is possible that one person that took this poll could actually have credible evidence of a human sacrifice, looking at Conclusion D1 and the results of ref(8).
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Observation E: 12 people believe occultists were probably christians, but there are only 11 atheists.
Conclusion E1: It is likely that some occultists probably did or still do go to church.
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Observation F: 9 people believe it is ludicrous to think occultists offer human sacrifices ref(6), and 9 people believe there is a reasonable possibility ref (7)&(8), and 11 people are atheists ref(9).
Conclusion F1: Hence those in ref(6) think that 43% of the poll takers are ludicrous, deluded, fools.
Conclusion F2: At least 2 atheists believe human sacrifice could occur: (9)-(6)=11-9=2. Hence at least 2 atheists are considered ludicrous by some of the other atheists.
Conclusion F3: From Conclusion F2, It appears the questions brought out some personal biases. I would venture to say there is a high number of atheists that believe occultists were christians because ref(2) with 12 votes, and ref(9) with 11 votes, and ref(3) with 10 votes are almost the same.
Conclusion F4: It looks like one atheist believes that the occultists could offer sacrifices but do not receive supernatural power as a result. (7)+(8) -(4) -(5) = 5+4-5-3=1. Another atheist believes that they could recieve power from Conclusion B1. These correspond to the two atheists in Conclusion F2. I find it amazing that someone can be an atheist and believe there is the possibilty of supernatural power.
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People that join the occult think they receive supernatural power (answer all that apply):
(1) They are probably crazy: 8
(2) They were probably Christians at some time: 12
(3) There is no supernatural power: 10
(4) They possibly could receive some sort of power: 5
(5) It is very likely they receive supernatural power: 3
(6) It is ludicrous to think any of them kill people as sacrifices: 9
(7) There are probably some that do kill people as sacrifices: 5
(8) It is very likely that some kill people as sacrifices: 4
(9) I don't know or believe in a God or Gods: 11
(10) I do believe in a God or Gods: 5
Voters: 21.
First of all this poll allowed several choices, and I think some people did not realize this, but I will proceed as though everyone took the poll correctly
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Observation A: 21 people voted but (9) & (10) only received 16 votes hence 5 people are neither atheists or theists but they do not deny the possibility of the supernatural.
Conclusion A1: I am inclined to believe 5 people are from the eastern religions, the occult, or possibly undecided about a God or Gods.
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Observation B: 10 people deny the possibility of supernatural phenomena ref(3) but 11 people are atheists ref(9).
Conclusion B1: 1 atheist is an outlier data point (very interesting). What does this person believe?
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Observation C: 5 people believe there is a diety according to (10), but 8 people believe occultist could receive supernatural power according to (4) & (5). The difference is 3 people.
Conclusion C1: 3 of the 5 people from Conclusion A1 are likely eastern religions or some form of the occult that does not believe in a god, but they believe in supernatural power. 2 of the 5 people from Conclusion A1 are unexplained (very interesting).
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Observation D: 8 people believe occultists are crazy ref(1), 8 people believe occultists receive supernatural power from (4) & (5) and 9 people believe occultists could offer human sacrifices from (7) & (8).
Conclusion D1: This is very interesting. because at least one person does not believe it is crazy to offer a human sacrifice: (7)&(8)-(1)= 5+4-8=1.
Conclusion D2: There are at least 4 people that think occultists could offer human sacrifices, but they don't believe there is a God or Gods. (7)+(8)-(10)=9-5=4
Conclusion D3: It is possible that one person that took this poll could actually have credible evidence of a human sacrifice, looking at Conclusion D1 and the results of ref(8).
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Observation E: 12 people believe occultists were probably christians, but there are only 11 atheists.
Conclusion E1: It is likely that some occultists probably did or still do go to church.
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Observation F: 9 people believe it is ludicrous to think occultists offer human sacrifices ref(6), and 9 people believe there is a reasonable possibility ref (7)&(8), and 11 people are atheists ref(9).
Conclusion F1: Hence those in ref(6) think that 43% of the poll takers are ludicrous, deluded, fools.
Conclusion F2: At least 2 atheists believe human sacrifice could occur: (9)-(6)=11-9=2. Hence at least 2 atheists are considered ludicrous by some of the other atheists.
Conclusion F3: From Conclusion F2, It appears the questions brought out some personal biases. I would venture to say there is a high number of atheists that believe occultists were christians because ref(2) with 12 votes, and ref(9) with 11 votes, and ref(3) with 10 votes are almost the same.
Conclusion F4: It looks like one atheist believes that the occultists could offer sacrifices but do not receive supernatural power as a result. (7)+(8) -(4) -(5) = 5+4-5-3=1. Another atheist believes that they could recieve power from Conclusion B1. These correspond to the two atheists in Conclusion F2. I find it amazing that someone can be an atheist and believe there is the possibilty of supernatural power.
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My original logical analysis of the results:
I just found an interesting link while researching this subject. I have a question for all you atheists out there. Is there is reasonable rather than ludicrous possibility of human sacrifices:
Cover-Up Case File
Is anybody ready to retake the poll?
I just found an interesting link while researching this subject. I have a question for all you atheists out there. Is there is reasonable rather than ludicrous possibility of human sacrifices:
Cover-Up Case File
Is anybody ready to retake the poll?
SL,
Can you get on the website? I don't have any trouble getting there. Most of the news stories are more than 5 years old. It is a common practice for newspapers to archive articles this old.
There are three articles about ritualistic cannibalism (anthropophagy) in Guinea.
We studied this in my college anthropology course. The brain-eaters believe they acquire the properties of whoever's brain they eat. It is a ritual they practice. I never thought of this as occult, but I believe it falls in the category.
By the way, they can get a brain-wasting disease that is similar to mad cow disease.
Can you get on the website? I don't have any trouble getting there. Most of the news stories are more than 5 years old. It is a common practice for newspapers to archive articles this old.
There are three articles about ritualistic cannibalism (anthropophagy) in Guinea.
We studied this in my college anthropology course. The brain-eaters believe they acquire the properties of whoever's brain they eat. It is a ritual they practice. I never thought of this as occult, but I believe it falls in the category.
By the way, they can get a brain-wasting disease that is similar to mad cow disease.
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Yes I can. I just found it amusing that A) You would put such 'faith' in some dude's personal webpage as opposed to finding a valid source, and B) I find it amusing that all the links, (with names of the newspaper & article), don't lead to any newspapers or any articles - but go to a 404 page of that very same website.
But there is the problem.. The links do not lead to any newspaper sites - just another webpage on his own site.
I simply think that if you have interest in these subjects that you find an .edu or .gov or even a website that just looks professional.
But there is the problem.. The links do not lead to any newspaper sites - just another webpage on his own site.
I simply think that if you have interest in these subjects that you find an .edu or .gov or even a website that just looks professional.
facts please woody, thank you.
we have a newpaper in england called the sport a bit like your national enquirer, real amasing storys abound, some years back a headline was "nineinch dog eats a whole man " apparently it had a special enzime in it's stomach that could break down human tissue into it's body instantly. is that believable to you, oh wait thats a silly question of course it is, well it's not to the normal public, you need facts not fiction.
I'll take the test again and you'll get the same results. ok(2,3,6,9.)
we have a newpaper in england called the sport a bit like your national enquirer, real amasing storys abound, some years back a headline was "nineinch dog eats a whole man " apparently it had a special enzime in it's stomach that could break down human tissue into it's body instantly. is that believable to you, oh wait thats a silly question of course it is, well it's not to the normal public, you need facts not fiction.
I'll take the test again and you'll get the same results. ok(2,3,6,9.)