Why do people join the occult?
- Thread starter Woody
- Start date
Woody, the 'Devil'...........
it seems central for you that belief. Goddess people say the Devil is the curse of denigrating the Goddess, .....why? cause it is inevitable you become haunted by that idea once you split Nature from 'spirit'...light from dark....
that voice you said about. could it not be that part of yourself you dis-own. cause when we are indoctrinated to splt reality we --of course--split ourselves also. its a simultanous operation!
I have this book....it shows a very old mandala, made up of angel shapes and devils...ie., the pattern Is that. like a fabric pattern. that is a good illustration of the christian mind. you demonize.....the dark, and deify the light. and live your lives fleeing your shadow ....actually i swear i've heard that last bit read out from the Bible....
you must explore this devil Woody. it is a huge part of your deeeeeeep disowned self. it will be interweaved with your horrendous childhood experiences
you see what our culture's dont is barred all that. the exploration of the Deep. its demonized/ even the so-called secular people wage a war against --war on drugs, which doesn't include their fukin shrink meds but DOPEs include hallucinogenic inspiration........emotionalspiritual facilitators that allow spiralling ecstatic exploration
at the mo you are with the lightbrigade ranting against the evil occultists in the religious forums on a blue and green sphere floating in velevet black in an unimaginably spiralling universe with spiralling galaxies, and theres spirals in the rocks herer too
it seems central for you that belief. Goddess people say the Devil is the curse of denigrating the Goddess, .....why? cause it is inevitable you become haunted by that idea once you split Nature from 'spirit'...light from dark....
that voice you said about. could it not be that part of yourself you dis-own. cause when we are indoctrinated to splt reality we --of course--split ourselves also. its a simultanous operation!
I have this book....it shows a very old mandala, made up of angel shapes and devils...ie., the pattern Is that. like a fabric pattern. that is a good illustration of the christian mind. you demonize.....the dark, and deify the light. and live your lives fleeing your shadow ....actually i swear i've heard that last bit read out from the Bible....
you must explore this devil Woody. it is a huge part of your deeeeeeep disowned self. it will be interweaved with your horrendous childhood experiences
you see what our culture's dont is barred all that. the exploration of the Deep. its demonized/ even the so-called secular people wage a war against --war on drugs, which doesn't include their fukin shrink meds but DOPEs include hallucinogenic inspiration........emotionalspiritual facilitators that allow spiralling ecstatic exploration
at the mo you are with the lightbrigade ranting against the evil occultists in the religious forums on a blue and green sphere floating in velevet black in an unimaginably spiralling universe with spiralling galaxies, and theres spirals in the rocks herer too
Interesting, because that's the same approach Jesus taught.
Woody,
Probably people get interested in alternative religions because it's more interesting, and meets their spiritual needs better than traditional organizations. Although, several types of philosophies classified under occult are as old or older than Christianity.
What's so wrong with human sacrifice? Jesus' death grew out of this tradition. It started with humans, then animals, then symbols or offerings, then one permanent sacrifice to end them all. How practical and convenient!
Probably people get interested in alternative religions because it's more interesting, and meets their spiritual needs better than traditional organizations. Although, several types of philosophies classified under occult are as old or older than Christianity.
What's so wrong with human sacrifice? Jesus' death grew out of this tradition. It started with humans, then animals, then symbols or offerings, then one permanent sacrifice to end them all. How practical and convenient!
Everneo said,
“ Originally Posted by Woody (IN RED)
I wouldn't discount that possibility. He can speak inside the mind and I suppose it could project as a hallucination. I'll give you one on that. ”
Yes that goes for God’s audible voice to me also.
“ I think atheists are sadly deluded. The devil has them right where he wants them. His line of thinking is: you can believe anything you want and this is ok, as long as it is not God that you believe. This identifies you with satan, you are telling God that satan is right, and it makes satan very happy. Satan (the devil) tells God that faith will not work. I recommend you read the first couple of chapters of Job. Satan is badly embarresed when God's people are obedient -- because he had it all as a spirit and he fell. We (christians) have little to nothing as mortals and we rise. It's like saying a lower primate is better than you. This deeply offends his pride. ”
He doesn’t really care what humans think as long as they don’t think about God
“ Home was no home at all, and he (satan) was never my buddy. I wasn't aware I was serving him, just like you aren't aware that you are serving him. ”
If you don’t serve God then you serve Satan by default. Everybody serves somebody. If you serve “self”, then you fit Satan’s model.
“ No, he is waiting for the maximum number of heaven goers ”
The road to hell is easy. You don’t have to do a thing to get there. The road to God is difficult and much less travelled.
“ The devil asks permission of God so the devil can do the devil's nasty work. The devil argues his case to God against God's believers, and God considers the case. ”
The devil unleashed himself on humanity when mankind allowed him to enter the earth through the A&E experience. The devil chose to be the devil, he was originally created Lucifer – the most beautiful angel in heaven. His own looks and greed for power got the better of him.
“ No, a weak satan or no satan at all is much more conducive. The relative strength of satan during evangelism is determined by what the nonbeliever allows in his own heart. ”
A weak satan can not delude people. His power of deception is his greatest power.
“ No, God already knows the outcome. ”
That makes God omniscient.
“ I never believed that Jesus is evil -- this is the unforgivable sin. ”
Neither did I. You said I committed blasphemy, the unpardonable sin. I never did that.
“ He doesn't have to. He likes them just like they are. He would prefer that they be left in their comfort zone. He doesn't like me or anyone else to take you out of your comfort zone. ”
As I said before, in order to get to hell you don’t need to change a thing.
“ Perhaps it will shake you out of your comfort zone. ”
Your comfort zone ends when you die. Mine begins when I die.
“
I am only a sinner saved by grace. That is the only difference between me and you that matters. ”
Who is your God?
“ Actually satan is quite satisfied with you just like you are. ”
Neither do I promote the devil’s enterprises. Are you too insecure to look at them and make your own judgment call? Maybe I’m asking too much of you.
“ Actually it pisses him off when I tell on him. This is pretty easy to do. Anyone that's a christian walks in satan's crosshairs. We know this, and this is why we are told to wear armour. Our greatest piece or armor is the helmet of salvation. ”..
I never said to leave the rest of the body exposed. The helmet is the best piece of armor but not the only piece. The bible says to put on the whole armor of God.
“ Originally Posted by Woody (IN RED)
I wouldn't discount that possibility. He can speak inside the mind and I suppose it could project as a hallucination. I'll give you one on that. ”
Yes that goes for God’s audible voice to me also.
“ I think atheists are sadly deluded. The devil has them right where he wants them. His line of thinking is: you can believe anything you want and this is ok, as long as it is not God that you believe. This identifies you with satan, you are telling God that satan is right, and it makes satan very happy. Satan (the devil) tells God that faith will not work. I recommend you read the first couple of chapters of Job. Satan is badly embarresed when God's people are obedient -- because he had it all as a spirit and he fell. We (christians) have little to nothing as mortals and we rise. It's like saying a lower primate is better than you. This deeply offends his pride. ”
He doesn’t really care what humans think as long as they don’t think about God
“ Home was no home at all, and he (satan) was never my buddy. I wasn't aware I was serving him, just like you aren't aware that you are serving him. ”
If you don’t serve God then you serve Satan by default. Everybody serves somebody. If you serve “self”, then you fit Satan’s model.
“ No, he is waiting for the maximum number of heaven goers ”
The road to hell is easy. You don’t have to do a thing to get there. The road to God is difficult and much less travelled.
“ The devil asks permission of God so the devil can do the devil's nasty work. The devil argues his case to God against God's believers, and God considers the case. ”
The devil unleashed himself on humanity when mankind allowed him to enter the earth through the A&E experience. The devil chose to be the devil, he was originally created Lucifer – the most beautiful angel in heaven. His own looks and greed for power got the better of him.
“ No, a weak satan or no satan at all is much more conducive. The relative strength of satan during evangelism is determined by what the nonbeliever allows in his own heart. ”
A weak satan can not delude people. His power of deception is his greatest power.
“ No, God already knows the outcome. ”
That makes God omniscient.
“ I never believed that Jesus is evil -- this is the unforgivable sin. ”
Neither did I. You said I committed blasphemy, the unpardonable sin. I never did that.
“ He doesn't have to. He likes them just like they are. He would prefer that they be left in their comfort zone. He doesn't like me or anyone else to take you out of your comfort zone. ”
As I said before, in order to get to hell you don’t need to change a thing.
“ Perhaps it will shake you out of your comfort zone. ”
Your comfort zone ends when you die. Mine begins when I die.
“
I am only a sinner saved by grace. That is the only difference between me and you that matters. ”
Who is your God?
“ Actually satan is quite satisfied with you just like you are. ”
Neither do I promote the devil’s enterprises. Are you too insecure to look at them and make your own judgment call? Maybe I’m asking too much of you.
“ Actually it pisses him off when I tell on him. This is pretty easy to do. Anyone that's a christian walks in satan's crosshairs. We know this, and this is why we are told to wear armour. Our greatest piece or armor is the helmet of salvation. ”..
I never said to leave the rest of the body exposed. The helmet is the best piece of armor but not the only piece. The bible says to put on the whole armor of God.
LadyHydralisk
Registered Member
Speaking as an occultist, for posterity's sake, I do not believe in killing innocent or guilty people as sacrifices, or killing rats bats or cats for that matter. In my own personal belief, I think that this would (usually) be a very good way to lose your power and become daemonized (to become a lesser spirit, daemon, derived from the greek word "Intelligence" or in Italian, "Putti")
"Actually it pisses him off when I tell on him. This is pretty easy to do. Anyone that's a christian walks in satan's crosshairs. We know this, and this is why we are told to wear armour. Our greatest piece or armor is the helmet of salvation."
And here I was with my lousy aluminum foil hat thinking it would protect me.
"Actually it pisses him off when I tell on him. This is pretty easy to do. Anyone that's a christian walks in satan's crosshairs. We know this, and this is why we are told to wear armour. Our greatest piece or armor is the helmet of salvation."
And here I was with my lousy aluminum foil hat thinking it would protect me.
SL: Fear that the person will leave you,
God: I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. (Heb 13:5)
SL: fear that the person will die,
Jesus: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, (John 10:28)
SL: fear that you're not good enough for them, etc etc etc.
Bible: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom 8:38-39)
Sounds like you ain't got the real thing Snakelord. Fear is the absense of love.
God: I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. (Heb 13:5)
SL: fear that the person will die,
Jesus: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, (John 10:28)
SL: fear that you're not good enough for them, etc etc etc.
Bible: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom 8:38-39)
Sounds like you ain't got the real thing Snakelord. Fear is the absense of love.
Well I can only say 'well done'. What you have managed to do is highlight the exact reasons people become religious. Ok, it didn't actually change anything from my post, but it was certainly still worth you pointing it out.
As humans we're all vulnerable. Our loved ones do die - regardless to what jesus says, and sometimes those we love leave us, regardless to what god says. Humans are a species that don't generally like to be vulnerable, and as such create methods with which to remove those vulnerabilities.
I meet quite a few people who, because of past events, find it very hard to get into stable relationships. One person has been turned down, rejected and 'dumped' one time too many, and as such no longer even bothers trying to find stability. We're not just talking love either, they display the symptoms in many key areas - love, employment, keeping to schedules and so on. They are just too used to being rejected. To them god becomes the perfect excuse, and they end up waffling the same sentences you do. You see, when it comes down to the crunch, they just can't succeed in life, and so they must look elsewhere for satisfaction and the stability they require but know deep in their heart they can't get.
If religion wanted to make itself even better, it could even have god saying: "you're magnificent", "you're really quite a beautiful person", and other gratifying comments that many need to hear to feel good about themselves, instead of the very self-centred approach that the christian gods take, (i.e I'm god, I'm cool, I love myself).
Who knows, maybe it will be considered once they figure out whether homo's truly are evil and all the other issues they need to work on.
Of course, a person with this frame of mind wont understand when you explain it to him, which is why this post, and any such future post becomes completely pointless. An alcoholic will very rarely tell himself that drink is not very good for him, and by the same token a religious man will not realise that god is merely a substitute for personal failures.
Don't get me wrong, if it stops people jumping off cliffs, it's gotta be a good thing.
"Do not raise your hand against the boy," the angel said. "Do not harm him, for now I know you fear god."
No love there then?
"The lord said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children."
No love there then.
"O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!"
No love there then.
"That thou mightest fear the lord thy god, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged."
"Thou shalt fear the lord thy god, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name."
Do notice that he doesn't ask you to love him, but to fear him. No love there then heh.
"And the lord commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the lord our god, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day."
Again notice how he doesn't ask for love, but fear.
"Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the lord thy god, to walk in his ways, and to fear him."
And again.
"And now, Israel, what doth the lord thy god require of thee, but to fear the lord thy god"
He requires you to fear him. According to you fear is the absence of love, so if he wants you to fear him, he obviously knows you cannot love him, so sayeth Woody, so sayeth god.
Shall I continue? Are you aware of how many more hundred statements I can quote from the bible where god says to fear him, without even mentioning love?
"Ye shall walk after the lord your god, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him."
"that thou mayest learn to fear the lord thy god always."
"And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the lord his god"
"If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, the lord thy god"
Before you try the worthless, "but it's a faulty bible version" excuse, let me just point out that that's the KJV. I will stop there for now, but let it be said that you simply have no case.
The biblical facts would show that god wants you to fear him. As you have pointed out, you can't fear and love someone - hell, you went so far as to tell me that I "aint got the right thing", and yet that is the relationship that god wants with you. You're just not paying attention to him - although it's hard to miss given the few hundred times he states it loud and clear.
I eagerly await a debate, but I am aware you're the type that just prefers to ignore that which you can't argue. But seriously, all this time you were loving god when you should have actually been pooping your panties just at the mention of his name.
It's weird isn't it. We use the word "fear" for things that we as humans do not want to be near. Fear is often considered the worst of human emotions, and although it's actually quite handy from a survival perspective, people do not look upon fear in a good way at all. If you would like to see fear in action, buy a gun and hold it to someones head. Watch what fear can do to a person, and then remind yourself that that's what god expects from you, wants from you, and demands from you.
So, can I expect a decent retort?
As humans we're all vulnerable. Our loved ones do die - regardless to what jesus says, and sometimes those we love leave us, regardless to what god says. Humans are a species that don't generally like to be vulnerable, and as such create methods with which to remove those vulnerabilities.
I meet quite a few people who, because of past events, find it very hard to get into stable relationships. One person has been turned down, rejected and 'dumped' one time too many, and as such no longer even bothers trying to find stability. We're not just talking love either, they display the symptoms in many key areas - love, employment, keeping to schedules and so on. They are just too used to being rejected. To them god becomes the perfect excuse, and they end up waffling the same sentences you do. You see, when it comes down to the crunch, they just can't succeed in life, and so they must look elsewhere for satisfaction and the stability they require but know deep in their heart they can't get.
If religion wanted to make itself even better, it could even have god saying: "you're magnificent", "you're really quite a beautiful person", and other gratifying comments that many need to hear to feel good about themselves, instead of the very self-centred approach that the christian gods take, (i.e I'm god, I'm cool, I love myself).
Who knows, maybe it will be considered once they figure out whether homo's truly are evil and all the other issues they need to work on.
Of course, a person with this frame of mind wont understand when you explain it to him, which is why this post, and any such future post becomes completely pointless. An alcoholic will very rarely tell himself that drink is not very good for him, and by the same token a religious man will not realise that god is merely a substitute for personal failures.
Don't get me wrong, if it stops people jumping off cliffs, it's gotta be a good thing.
"Do not raise your hand against the boy," the angel said. "Do not harm him, for now I know you fear god."
No love there then?
"The lord said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children."
No love there then.
"O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!"
No love there then.
"That thou mightest fear the lord thy god, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged."
"Thou shalt fear the lord thy god, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name."
Do notice that he doesn't ask you to love him, but to fear him. No love there then heh.
"And the lord commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the lord our god, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day."
Again notice how he doesn't ask for love, but fear.
"Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the lord thy god, to walk in his ways, and to fear him."
And again.
"And now, Israel, what doth the lord thy god require of thee, but to fear the lord thy god"
He requires you to fear him. According to you fear is the absence of love, so if he wants you to fear him, he obviously knows you cannot love him, so sayeth Woody, so sayeth god.
Shall I continue? Are you aware of how many more hundred statements I can quote from the bible where god says to fear him, without even mentioning love?
"Ye shall walk after the lord your god, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him."
"that thou mayest learn to fear the lord thy god always."
"And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the lord his god"
"If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, the lord thy god"
Before you try the worthless, "but it's a faulty bible version" excuse, let me just point out that that's the KJV. I will stop there for now, but let it be said that you simply have no case.
The biblical facts would show that god wants you to fear him. As you have pointed out, you can't fear and love someone - hell, you went so far as to tell me that I "aint got the right thing", and yet that is the relationship that god wants with you. You're just not paying attention to him - although it's hard to miss given the few hundred times he states it loud and clear.
I eagerly await a debate, but I am aware you're the type that just prefers to ignore that which you can't argue. But seriously, all this time you were loving god when you should have actually been pooping your panties just at the mention of his name.
It's weird isn't it. We use the word "fear" for things that we as humans do not want to be near. Fear is often considered the worst of human emotions, and although it's actually quite handy from a survival perspective, people do not look upon fear in a good way at all. If you would like to see fear in action, buy a gun and hold it to someones head. Watch what fear can do to a person, and then remind yourself that that's what god expects from you, wants from you, and demands from you.
So, can I expect a decent retort?
SL,
Why don't we tear down the walls as SouthStar said. What is the real reason you are posting to me?
I will give you my true intentions: I am here to witness about the Lord to anyone that listens. I have spent a considerable amount of time doing this for more than 20 years of my life. I have seen some people accept christ and I have seen others slam the door in my face. I do it because the God I believe in asks me too in His bible.
If you are trying to convert me to atheism with the argument of "legalism" I would only end up being a Jew. Let me put this argument in short order according to Paul's doctrine:
1) The law was not written to judge the righteous, it was written to judge the unrighteous.
2) Jesus fulfulled every "dot and tittle of the law" as you say.
3) Jesus is the only person that has ever fulfilled the law.
4) Forgiveness is needed for everyone else because they come up short.
5) The pharisees were the most rightoues people in their day according to the works of the law.
6) They failed to love God with all their heart, soul, and strength (one of the ten commandments).
7) Jesus told them if they loved God they would love Jesus, God's only son.
8) The pharisees plotted to have Jesus killed (definately not an act of love).
9) They never asked for forgiveness.
10) They are in Hell, and they did a better job of obeying the law than any of us ever will, but they failed to love God.
11) Jesus fulfills the law in the lives of all believers.
12) Love is the fulfilment of the law.
13) God is love by His own definition of Himself.
Jesus was a very uplifting person to those who admit their weakness. To those that think they were better than everyone else (like the pharisees) Jesus gave rebukes. How about the woman caught in adultery? Jesus assured her. Or the woman at the well. Mary Magdalene. Zacchias. Go down the list. Jesus is the persona of God. He was humble, and served other people in a selfless, love-centered fashion. This is the God I believe in, not the one you describe.
They are sinners just like everyone else. Often they had the issues forced one them. They convert to christianity too. I know of a man that was homosexual and converted to christianity. He is married and has a ministry, and he admits his former life to anyone. He is received in love and nobody yet has shot him down for his former life. The bible says the church body has people in it that came from every conceivable avenue of sin. Why don't some christians grow up and accept this fact?
God promised Abraham that Issac would be the seed to the Messiah. Abraham saw the need for a sacrifice to take care of the sin issue. Abraham believed God would raise Issac from the dead, and he probably thought Issac would be made the messiah. "Fear" in the sense given, means that Abraham had respect for God's word. Abraham did not do it with nervous, uncontrollable, timidity, as you imply with the word "fear".
Rather than go through all the possible iterations of the word "fear" let me give you another word that has changed since the days of King James, the word "charity":
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. (1st Corinthians 13:3)
The above verse sounds superfluous until you understand that "charity" means "love" in modern vernacular. As one preacher said, you can give without loving but you can't love without giving.
Continuing on in Corinthians 13:
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth.
These verses were quoted in my wedding. We used "love" in place of "charity." Likewise I recommend you use the word "respect" in place of the word "fear." It more accurately reflects modern english usage.
Why don't we tear down the walls as SouthStar said. What is the real reason you are posting to me?
I will give you my true intentions: I am here to witness about the Lord to anyone that listens. I have spent a considerable amount of time doing this for more than 20 years of my life. I have seen some people accept christ and I have seen others slam the door in my face. I do it because the God I believe in asks me too in His bible.
If you are trying to convert me to atheism with the argument of "legalism" I would only end up being a Jew. Let me put this argument in short order according to Paul's doctrine:
1) The law was not written to judge the righteous, it was written to judge the unrighteous.
2) Jesus fulfulled every "dot and tittle of the law" as you say.
3) Jesus is the only person that has ever fulfilled the law.
4) Forgiveness is needed for everyone else because they come up short.
5) The pharisees were the most rightoues people in their day according to the works of the law.
6) They failed to love God with all their heart, soul, and strength (one of the ten commandments).
7) Jesus told them if they loved God they would love Jesus, God's only son.
8) The pharisees plotted to have Jesus killed (definately not an act of love).
9) They never asked for forgiveness.
10) They are in Hell, and they did a better job of obeying the law than any of us ever will, but they failed to love God.
11) Jesus fulfills the law in the lives of all believers.
12) Love is the fulfilment of the law.
13) God is love by His own definition of Himself.
Jesus was a very uplifting person to those who admit their weakness. To those that think they were better than everyone else (like the pharisees) Jesus gave rebukes. How about the woman caught in adultery? Jesus assured her. Or the woman at the well. Mary Magdalene. Zacchias. Go down the list. Jesus is the persona of God. He was humble, and served other people in a selfless, love-centered fashion. This is the God I believe in, not the one you describe.
They are sinners just like everyone else. Often they had the issues forced one them. They convert to christianity too. I know of a man that was homosexual and converted to christianity. He is married and has a ministry, and he admits his former life to anyone. He is received in love and nobody yet has shot him down for his former life. The bible says the church body has people in it that came from every conceivable avenue of sin. Why don't some christians grow up and accept this fact?
God promised Abraham that Issac would be the seed to the Messiah. Abraham saw the need for a sacrifice to take care of the sin issue. Abraham believed God would raise Issac from the dead, and he probably thought Issac would be made the messiah. "Fear" in the sense given, means that Abraham had respect for God's word. Abraham did not do it with nervous, uncontrollable, timidity, as you imply with the word "fear".
Rather than go through all the possible iterations of the word "fear" let me give you another word that has changed since the days of King James, the word "charity":
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. (1st Corinthians 13:3)
The above verse sounds superfluous until you understand that "charity" means "love" in modern vernacular. As one preacher said, you can give without loving but you can't love without giving.
Continuing on in Corinthians 13:
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth.
These verses were quoted in my wedding. We used "love" in place of "charity." Likewise I recommend you use the word "respect" in place of the word "fear." It more accurately reflects modern english usage.
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Cthulhu
* While not the most powerful of the Great Old Ones, Cthulhu is certainly the most well known.
* Maybe a priest of the Outer Gods Yog-Sothoth.
* Is worshipped throughout the world with particularly large cults in: Haiti, Louisiana, South Pacific, Mexico, the Middle East, Boston and Greenland.
* Sometimes said to be the half-brother of Hastur but this may just be a rumour.
* Some conflict between Cthulhu and Hastur exist, but little is known about it this at the time.
* Currently Cthulhu is trapped under the ocean in his city of R'lyeh.
* While trapped under so much water his great telepathic abilities are blocked. He can now only communicate with his followers through their dreams.
* Followers of Cthulhu and Tulzscha have cool relations right now. But open conflict is more likely than an alliance, or even peace.
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And while I do not worship Cthulhu, I felt that he is terrebly abandoned from this wholly christian thread. Embrace Cthulhu, sister, at least he is real.
Xev from this forum is a priestress of Cthulhu.
* While not the most powerful of the Great Old Ones, Cthulhu is certainly the most well known.
* Maybe a priest of the Outer Gods Yog-Sothoth.
* Is worshipped throughout the world with particularly large cults in: Haiti, Louisiana, South Pacific, Mexico, the Middle East, Boston and Greenland.
* Sometimes said to be the half-brother of Hastur but this may just be a rumour.
* Some conflict between Cthulhu and Hastur exist, but little is known about it this at the time.
* Currently Cthulhu is trapped under the ocean in his city of R'lyeh.
* While trapped under so much water his great telepathic abilities are blocked. He can now only communicate with his followers through their dreams.
* Followers of Cthulhu and Tulzscha have cool relations right now. But open conflict is more likely than an alliance, or even peace.
-----
And while I do not worship Cthulhu, I felt that he is terrebly abandoned from this wholly christian thread. Embrace Cthulhu, sister, at least he is real.
Xev from this forum is a priestress of Cthulhu.
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Woody said:
In this public science forum you are bound to answer for your claims and declarations of faith.
Do you think anyone is really listening to you? So far, you were simply repeating what you believe in and quoting from some ministers, occult forums, bible and other things you find important for you in a typical, self righteous, evangelistic style. Your answers to the questions asked to you may be appreciated in some christian forums as words of a faithful. This is not a pulpit for preaching as once the ex-moderator (Cris) rightly indicated to one of the member who tried his mission of life here. You are in the wrong place. I don't expect any realistic reply from you for this post too.
Ummmmm... to discuss things? This is a discussion forum no? I have several interests ranging from entering competitions, (some 200 a day), to walking my dog, to discussing religious and paranormal issues.
Now do not get confused and think you're important enough for me to target. I simply respond to comments that I feel it worth responding to - and your posts do generally incite comment. They're either grandiose claims that you then fail to back up, or a poor understanding of what your own god said.
I have no interest in changing you, or trying to make you not believe in a god if that's what you think. Personally I think it much better that you remain a fundie. Without it you'd undoubtedly fall to pieces, and I wouldn't want to be responsible for that. However, if you make ignorant comments or grandiose claims I do have the right to comment on them, and I choose to use that right.
No offence, but you're doing an awful job. One should question just how well they're getting along when they have to resort to advertising occult websites in an attempt to promote god and jesus. That defies logic.
Ah yes, the great pick and mix. You know the god you believe in has asked you to do many things in his bible, and yet you ignore anything you don't personally want to do. How can you really preach on god's behalf when you don't even take him all that seriously?
I wonder, do you mention all that in your sales pitch? Do you say: "This is the bible, it was written by god using outdated words that you are free to change. There is a lot of stuff in this bible that is just plain daft - such as getting circumcised.. Why would god care about your willy? So basically what you do is flick through it and do anything that sounds nice. Anything that you don't personally agree with you can feel free to ignore. Oh, and remember.. we're not old jews, so the ten commandments don't mean anything to us".
Hell no. If I wanted to turn anyone into an atheist I would do nothing other than point out the serious idiocy in living a life based upon faith. Faith has no merits whatsoever, and when people realise that they become non-believers/skeptical naturally.
We've been through this a dozen times. If a righteous man breaks the laws, he is no longer righteous - but unrighteous - and as such the laws were written for him. Seeings as any christian will tell you you're all sinners, the law was written for you.
Not at all. You know damn well what I said, and your attempts to lie to change that show your true nature.
Not true at all. Spend some time looking through other religious texts, and yes, even texts vastly older than the biblical ones.
Well maybe you do. Maybe you feel that bad within yourself. Personally I don't.
As I've pointed out, love wasn't the issue, fear was.
Maybe, but as rational human beings they needed a little more than one man's say so. If he truly was god there would have been no doubt. The doubt would come from a hairy arab claiming to be god. It's no different to you making claims about Ken and his ouija board - and I hasten to add: you still have not managed to back it up whatsoever.
And seemingly they weren't the only ones. god visits earth and nobody except a small handful of writers even mention the guy. It would arguably be the greatest single event in the history of mankind and yet nobody even noticed. Several of those who did write about him got ignored by the church and you religious people, the others can't even agree on the basic details.
You know, a few years back a comet passed overhead. Several books were written about it, countless magazines, millions upon millions of people rushed out to see it, etc. god comes to earth and only 12 people give a shit. Makes you wonder.
Yeah, and then the fake god shit his pants: "Oh god why have you forsaken me? I realise I've been lying to everyone but it was all for you.. please save me"
No they're not. Nobody goes to heaven or hell until god raises them up to judge them at the end times.
I don't doubt it. Everyone needs a scapegoat. It gives you freedom to be an asshole. However, how would jesus fulfill the law of believers? You've had me believe that believers are righteous, and according to you the law isn't even written for the righteous. As a result, jesus has just fulfilled the law for us non-believers and unrighteous. Cool, atheists are saved- so sayeth Woody.
Well that's handy then considering pretty much everyone has love.
Not at all. By his own definition of himself he is:
"For the lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous god."
Or..
"that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, the lord thy god"
He defines himself as jealous, even saying his name is jealous. He also considers himself fearful.
I guess you forgot about them.
But of course, you'll only listen to what you want to hear. The bible is still there. It doesn't change, you just ignore three quarters of it. I guess that's a good thing if it means keeping you sane and happy. It's only when you die the shit will start, but why worry about that now?
Yeah I've read the bible thnx. It doesn't do anything to your comment or my response.
No, it means he feared god. Look, while you can come up with a hundred and one words that aren't used or implied, the biblical translators are beyond you. No offence but you're an engineer and barbecue chef. You wouldn't know the first thing. In every bible and every instance the biblical translators show that god wants fear. I used the KJV because in a former thread you told me that was the total truth and all the words were right. Don't you remember? It was that thread you ended up running away from when you ran out of steam. We were having a small issue between the words "through" and "in". You told me that the KJV was the perfect bible, that all the words in it were the right ones and so on. As a result it comes as quite a surprise to see you belittling the bible you were sticking up for just a small while ago - and indeed completely changing your tune as is so common with complete hypocrites.
Even when I pointed out that in the NKJV, (the update KJV), that the word through is used instead of in, you dismissed it outright, claiming that no bible can compete with the KJV. You told me to piss off and argue with catholics, or some other christian group that you dislike.
You're making it up as you go along.
According to a barbecue chef? Alas, not according to your own god or the biblical translators. Personally though, I would agree with god. If you do not fear him, (i.e have no fear that you'll be punished and go to hell), then religion instantly becomes moot. The very way to keep something like that alive is to have fear of it. The very minute the fear is removed, god becomes nothing. You know this as well as anyone - but are trying to back out of it merely because you made an error on your last post.
Woody: Jesus is the persona of God. He was humble, and served other people in a selfless, love-centered fashion. This is the God I believe in, not the one you describe.
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M*W: Woody, if there were a God or Creator Entity, humanity would be the persona of God. In a spiritual sense, I believe that this God is yet to be manifested through the human race. Yet, we have been evolving toward this end.
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Woody: The bible says the church body has people in it that came from every conceivable avenue of sin. Why don't some christians grow up and accept this fact?
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M*W: That's a good question. I guess sin is relative to the believer. Is it a sin to yell at your dog? Some would think so, and pray for redemption. Is it a sin to tell a white lie to save face? I don't think so, but some christians would. Is it a sin to take a day off work just for the fun of it? This would be lying, but I don't think it's a sin. The more sins a Christian has, the more s/he can pray for redemption and believe themselves to be redeemed. If a person is a good citizen that doesn't abuse their body or harm anyone else, but NOT a christian, I see no cause for sin. Atheists live by this ethos. First, do no harm. Interestingly, this is also the main tenet of Wicca -- not that Atheism = Wicca. Wicca is a religion. Atheism is not.
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Woody: God promised Abraham that Issac would be the seed to the Messiah.
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M*W: Abraham lived almost 1,000 BC years before Moses. Therefore, there was no Hebrew concept of a messiah when Abraham lived (unless there was a polytheistic belief of a messiah in that area at that time). Essentially, there were no Hebrews at that time. Abraham also had Egyptian parentage, and Sarah was his half-sister. Their father was a particular pharoah whose name I cannot recall at the monent.
As far as the historical timeline goes, records show that Isaac was born in 1980 BC, long after Sarah had already died in 2050 BC. I don't believe this has been addressed before on sciforums. Ishmael was born around the year 2000 BC
Rather than go through all the possible iterations of the word "fear" let me give you another word that has changed since the days of King James, the word "charity":
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. (1st Corinthians 13:3)
The above verse sounds superfluous until you understand that "charity" means "love" in modern vernacular. As one preacher said, you can give without loving but you can't love without giving.
Continuing on in Corinthians 13:
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth.
These verses were quoted in my wedding. We used "love" in place of "charity." Likewise I recommend you use the word "respect" in place of the word "fear." It more accurately reflects modern english usage.[/QUOTE]
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M*W: Woody, if there were a God or Creator Entity, humanity would be the persona of God. In a spiritual sense, I believe that this God is yet to be manifested through the human race. Yet, we have been evolving toward this end.
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Woody: The bible says the church body has people in it that came from every conceivable avenue of sin. Why don't some christians grow up and accept this fact?
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M*W: That's a good question. I guess sin is relative to the believer. Is it a sin to yell at your dog? Some would think so, and pray for redemption. Is it a sin to tell a white lie to save face? I don't think so, but some christians would. Is it a sin to take a day off work just for the fun of it? This would be lying, but I don't think it's a sin. The more sins a Christian has, the more s/he can pray for redemption and believe themselves to be redeemed. If a person is a good citizen that doesn't abuse their body or harm anyone else, but NOT a christian, I see no cause for sin. Atheists live by this ethos. First, do no harm. Interestingly, this is also the main tenet of Wicca -- not that Atheism = Wicca. Wicca is a religion. Atheism is not.
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Woody: God promised Abraham that Issac would be the seed to the Messiah.
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M*W: Abraham lived almost 1,000 BC years before Moses. Therefore, there was no Hebrew concept of a messiah when Abraham lived (unless there was a polytheistic belief of a messiah in that area at that time). Essentially, there were no Hebrews at that time. Abraham also had Egyptian parentage, and Sarah was his half-sister. Their father was a particular pharoah whose name I cannot recall at the monent.
As far as the historical timeline goes, records show that Isaac was born in 1980 BC, long after Sarah had already died in 2050 BC. I don't believe this has been addressed before on sciforums. Ishmael was born around the year 2000 BC
Rather than go through all the possible iterations of the word "fear" let me give you another word that has changed since the days of King James, the word "charity":
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. (1st Corinthians 13:3)
The above verse sounds superfluous until you understand that "charity" means "love" in modern vernacular. As one preacher said, you can give without loving but you can't love without giving.
Continuing on in Corinthians 13:
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth.
These verses were quoted in my wedding. We used "love" in place of "charity." Likewise I recommend you use the word "respect" in place of the word "fear." It more accurately reflects modern english usage.[/QUOTE]
Woody,
Then I must refer you to the rules of this forum -
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=34473
Specifically -
Whilst it is acceptable to post perceived failings and strengths of various belief systems, where this is done with the main aim of preaching the virtues of one's own religion (perhaps with a desire to convert others), or of disparaging those who hold to a different belief system, posts may be edited or deleted.
However, in this forum where there are a good number and I believe a majority of intelligent skeptics, your sermons have the very satisfying result of confirming the irrationality and invalidity of your position. In short not only will you not convert anyone to your cause but you will positively assist in the furtherance of atheism. Please continue the good work.
But please be aware that repeating the same fundamentalist rantings too frequently will eventually become tiresome and at that time they can be simply deleted.
Why not instead attempt to justify your cause through reasoned debate – the real intent of this forum. If your case is strong and you are adequately intelligent then you will find logic and reason very powerful tools. I suspect though that you know that your cause cannot withstand the close scrutiny of logic and reasoned enquiry.
And as everneo states, you are probably in the wrong forum for your aims.
Then I must refer you to the rules of this forum -
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=34473
Specifically -
Whilst it is acceptable to post perceived failings and strengths of various belief systems, where this is done with the main aim of preaching the virtues of one's own religion (perhaps with a desire to convert others), or of disparaging those who hold to a different belief system, posts may be edited or deleted.
However, in this forum where there are a good number and I believe a majority of intelligent skeptics, your sermons have the very satisfying result of confirming the irrationality and invalidity of your position. In short not only will you not convert anyone to your cause but you will positively assist in the furtherance of atheism. Please continue the good work.
But please be aware that repeating the same fundamentalist rantings too frequently will eventually become tiresome and at that time they can be simply deleted.
Why not instead attempt to justify your cause through reasoned debate – the real intent of this forum. If your case is strong and you are adequately intelligent then you will find logic and reason very powerful tools. I suspect though that you know that your cause cannot withstand the close scrutiny of logic and reasoned enquiry.
And as everneo states, you are probably in the wrong forum for your aims.
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M*W: Sorry about that. I hit submit before I was finished. The point I was trying to make was that Abraham lived long before Moses allegedly wrote the laws. Abraham lived in a polytheistic society. He believed in human sacrifice. Abraham's beliefs predated Moses's Exodus from Egypt. There were no Hebrews at that time, only a small tribe if Egyptian Ibiru. These followers of Moses on the Exodus were sunworshippers. Their god was Aten also called Amen-Ra.
M*W: Sorry about that. I hit submit before I was finished. The point I was trying to make was that Abraham lived long before Moses allegedly wrote the laws. Abraham lived in a polytheistic society. He believed in human sacrifice. Abraham's beliefs predated Moses's Exodus from Egypt. There were no Hebrews at that time, only a small tribe if Egyptian Ibiru. These followers of Moses on the Exodus were sunworshippers. Their god was Aten also called Amen-Ra.