Why do people join the occult?

[Woody]

Skinwalker: How can you pretend to not know? You only have to click the results to see who participated and how they voted. You even indicate that you've done so above.

Woody: I click on the results and I do not see who voted or how they voted at the individual level. I set up the poll so everyone could look. What am I doing wrong?

Correction: now I see how to do it! Excellent, thanks for the tip. NOw I can analyze the second level of this test. Very Good Skinwalker -- I am impressed!

 

[SkinWalker]

Have you seen the documentary on Nanook the Eskimo? It was done in either the 30s or 40s. The eskimos were nomadic hunters. They killed the female infants until there were enough males in the family to hunt and bring in enough food to feed everyone. Females were considered a luxery. Have you not studied this, or has the women's lib movement penetrated anthropology as well?

No. I've heard enough of it to know that it was released in 1924 as the first feature-length documentary film, which didn't necessarily characterize the Inuit to a degree that was later considered unbaised. Apparently Flannery, the director as I recall, took liberties with haveing "Nanook" stage different things that Flannery felt were more "eskimo-like." By the way, the Inuit people do not prefer the term "Eskimo," they refer to themselves as "Inuit," which means "people." "Eskimo" is a bit derogatory, though I don't know to what degree.

I have, however, read much of Lewis Binford's work on the Inuit people, and if you are truly interested in an education in anthropolgy, his work is mandatory reading. Through it, you can find some very objective ethnographic representations of the Inuit and you can discover that they didn't view the female as "unnecessary," but rather less useful than the male, which could hunt, fish, etc. You'll also discover that this practice ceased quite some time ago.

It's funny how history is rewritten to please the views of those in the present rather than to tell the truths of those in the past.

A bold, and uninformed statement. One that has a clear agenda. One I take offense to. Modern, processual ethnography and archaeology is at an all-time high in objective research. Bias will always exist, but modern methodologies filter it out very effectively. There are many past beliefs that were held within the field of anthropology that are now considered passe and simply wrong, but this certainly isn't due to "re-writing" history to fit a new set of beliefs. It's due to new paradigms of interpreting past and present cultures.

Broad, bold, and ignorant statements like that are obviously the brash and biased remarks from someone with an agenda. Your agenda is obviously to convince as many people to join your cult as possible while belittling the cults of others. Just like the UFO nutters, you dismiss that data which are not supportive of your belief system, but embrace that which is. In short, you are practicing pseudoscience.

 

[Woody]

Skinwalker: A bold, and uninformed statement. One that has a clear agenda. One I take offense to.

Woody: Yeah, I guess I'm pretty disappointed in the film director's attempt to paint his agenda. I'm sorry for the offense. You are the anthropology major so I'll take your word on the rest of it. I hope the theories you learn don't get superseded again -- this reduces credibility. This is one of the reasons I discarded the theory of evolution before I became a christian. The theory kept changing all the time, and whoever took the lecturn claimed to have yet another find that reshuffled the deck. I guess it paid his bills anyway -- I can't blame a man for supporting his family. But I think fame and fortune is pushing some of it (You don't think those guys have an agenda?.)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Woody: On an unrelated topic have you heard about the white indians? I know one. He is Shawnee. They are doing excavations near Louisville. Check out this thread:

White Indians

The guy I'm telling you about is 65 years old. He claims he has been DNA tested positive to Prince Madoc of Wales. He is from the Shawnee tribe. They have legendary tales in the family that include white travelers well before columbus time.

By the way I have spent many hours collecting indian artifacts as a hobby.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Skinwalker: There are many past beliefs that were held within the field of anthropology that are now considered passe and simply wrong, but this certainly isn't due to "re-writing" history to fit a new set of beliefs.

Woody: In other words, the people closer to the past event or those who actually witnessed the past event were less informed because they saw it through biased eyes. As they say, the winners write the history books.

You have to admit -- somebody is wrong.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Skinwalker: But whether I am biased or not, the facts are that the cults of Koresh, Jones, et al were grounded in christianity and not in the occult.

Woody: How were they grounded in christianity? How many years did they spend in college studying the bible? Did they get a degree in divinity? Who ordained them to the ministry?

What do you consider a christian to be? If someone claims the name of christainity does that make them a christian? How about if they go to church? I'll give you a hint:

Jesus: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7: 21-23)

There are going to be many that believe they are christians, and Jesus is going to tell them to depart. They will be totally flaberghasted by his response when they find out they didn't have the real thing. Some of them are living by the works of the law. A sad day indeed.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[audible]

Audible:



I will restate my analysis from an earlier thread:

who gives a shit what you've analyzed, out of those question, it is irrelevent.
how the question were posed and how they were answer is the point, what you sad mind does adding A to B to make Z, or adding Z to A to make B is totally irrelevent.

misty answered like any normal reasoning human, without her mind being clouded by delusional thought of sky daddys.

"Why do people join the occult?"


2,They were probably Christians at some time means they were xians before they were occultist, nothing else

3,There is no supernatural power means the is no such thing as the supernatural, nothing else.

6,It is ludicrous to think any of them kill people as sacrifices means you have to be a moron to think people actually do these sort of things, nothing else

9,I don't know or believe in a God or Gods means I have no believe in fantasy figures, nothing else.

 

[Woody]

Audible:

Audible: 2,They were probably Christians at some time means they were xians before they were occultist, nothing else

Woody: Which came first the chicken or the egg. You can't have it both ways. Many of the atheists on this forum claim the occult came before christianity, and that christianity is just an immitation. Therefore, it is not necessary to be a christian to get involved in the occult. I know for a fact that it did not happen that way in my life.

Again this gets into a definition of "christian."

Dictionary Definition:
1 a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ

Jesus said this is not the right definition in Matthew 7:21-23.

I can understand you don't like being profiled. It has odviously hit a nerve, and odviously triggered your defense mechanisms.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aubible: 3,There is no supernatural power means the is no such thing as the supernatural, nothing else.

Woody: It means you do not believe as such to be more precise.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Audible: 6,It is ludicrous to think any of them kill people as sacrifices means you have to be a moron to think people actually do these sort of things, nothing else

Woody: So in your opinion 43% of the people that took this poll are idiots? As Dr. Spock used to say -- Fascinating! You are getting rather exclusive in your evaluation. Understandable -- it's part of a rational defense mechanism.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Audible: 9,I don't know or believe in a God or Gods means I have no believe in fantasy figures, nothing else.

Woody: A response with Bias-a-boiling. How about you believe these are fantasy figures, wouldn't that be more appropriate? However you declare your beliefs as universal -- hardly so. But this makes you feel better about what you believe, doesn't it?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Audible: misty answered like any normal reasoning human, without her mind being clouded by delusional thought of sky daddys.

Woody: So why didn't either one of you consider a belief in the supernatural to be a sign of insanity? Have you grown past that conclusion?

 

[audible]

Audible: 2,They were probably Christians at some time means they were xians before they were occultist, nothing else



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aubible: 3,There is no supernatural power means the is no such thing as the supernatural, nothing else.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Audible: 6,It is ludicrous to think any of them kill people as sacrifices means you have to be a moron to think people actually do these sort of things, nothing else



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Audible: 9,I don't know or believe in a God or Gods means I have no believe in fantasy figures, nothing else.

all replies by woody deleted as irelevent.

does this help you woody.

 

[Woody]

Audible said: does this help you woody. all replies by woody deleted as irelevent.

Woody: Audible, maybe it helps you to make me inaudible (pun intended). Maybe if you scream loud enough you can have a conversation with yourself.

 

[Woody]

Everyone,

I would like to thank all for participating in the poll. I have reviewed the individual results of each voter and I think the results are quite interesting:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eleven People voted the atheist/agnostic choice, but three of them voted differently from the others:

Skinwalker is the only atheist that didn't think occultists were formerly christians.

Victor E is the only atheist/agnostic that did not deny the supernatural.

"S0meguy" broke rank and voted occultists could offer human sacrifices, and that they are probably crazy.

None of the other atheists thought occultists were crazy, but neither did they believe some occultists might offer human sacrifices.


Any comments from the three "outlier" data points?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Four people voted they believed in a God or Gods, and none of them thought occultists were formerly christians. One theist only voted one category. The other three of them voted a) that occultists are probably crazy, b) that it is very likely that some offer human sacrifices, and c) that they could receive some kind of supernatural power from this practice. One of the three said it was possible to recieve supernatural power and the other two voted it was likely they could receive supernatural power.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eight voters only selected one choice out of the entire poll (and they might not have done the poll correctly).

 

[SkinWalker]

Skinwalker: A bold, and uninformed statement. One that has a clear agenda. One I take offense to.

Woody: Yeah, I guess I'm pretty disappointed in the film director's attempt to paint his agenda. I'm sorry for the offense.

Forgive me if I was directing my hostility inappropriately, I assumed that you were implying that the 1920's film was accurate and that more recent ethnography was attempting to paint a different picture. If I had that wrong, please accept my apologies.

I hope the theories you learn don't get superseded again -- this reduces credibility.

I think that just the opposite is true. I hope that current paradigms and current understandings in ethnography is improved upon. This increases our body of knowledge, and doesn't reduce credibility at all. In fact, that scientists are willing to revise their positions gives far more credibility than if they refused.

This is one of the reasons I discarded the theory of evolution before I became a christian. The theory kept changing all the time, and whoever took the lecturn claimed to have yet another find that reshuffled the deck.

The "theory" didn't so much change as improve and revise. Evolutionary theory is much like a set of encyclopedias. In the earlier days of developing the theory, much of the technology was new as it related to genetics -as was the body of knowledge that existed within genetics. The set of encylcopedias was only a few volumes. As the body of knowledge improved, the amount of data increased, and the technologies that allowed more detailed examination and analysis of genetics/DNA, so did the theories of how the evolutionary process improved. The set of encyclopedias grew to a vast, multi-volume set that each contains data that points to a common convergence or conclusion in topics ranging from botony, taxonomy, genetics, geology, chemistry, ethnography, etc.

It isn't that the "theory" of evolution changed. It is that the theories, paradigms and data increased and improved.

This is true with many fields of science, not just anthropology and evolution. The paradigms of astronomy have improved with time as well. It was once good science to state that the planet Mars had canals due to once wildly flowing water. It was later shown that Mars was a dessert planet. Now, there's talk about large volumes of water again.

Woody: How were they grounded in christianity? How many years did they spend in college studying the bible? Did they get a degree in divinity? Who ordained them to the ministry?

I doubt that either had any serious theological education. But then, most christian ministers don't. Only a very few of the ones that do actually get their education from accredited schools of theology. But they were both grounded in christianity mainly because of their use of christian texts and christian principles -though obviously not all or even the best principles.

 

[Sushupti]

It can deal with subjects ranging from talismans, magic (alternatively spelt and defined as magick), sorcery, and voudou, to ESP, astrology, numerology, and lucid dreams. It is all encompassing in that most everything that isn't claimed by any of the major religions is included in the realm of the occult. Even qabalah has been considered an occult study, perhaps because of its popularity amongst magi and Wiccans.

I'm into a lot of those thigns woody! Wanna cyber?

Absolutely nothing to do with christianity, by the way.

EDIT: Pardon if this has been covered, by the way, much too much fundie wackjobbery to read through...

 

[Angelic Being]

Why do you think people join the occult?

***NOTE: You are allowed to make multiple selections in the Poll

Here is an occult web site. It is really bizarre, especially in the area of ceremonial magic. If you find this subject offensive then please don't go there.

Occult Web Site

Maybe because they love to have sex too much - sex is their god????

 

[ellion]

Maybe because they love to have sex too much - sex is their god????

how can you have too much sex? is it possible to love sex too much?

sex is their god?

what context do you use god? something that rewards and punishes? something that gives life, joy, pleasure even ecstasy?
something that makes you feel guilty for your sins? how is sex a god?

 

[Angelic Being]

how can you have too much sex? is it possible to love sex too much?

what context do you use god? something that rewards and punishes? something that gives life, joy, pleasure even ecstasy?
something that makes you feel guilty for your sins? how is sex a god?

Anything that you put before The Creator becomes a god to you.

And werent you a teenager once - didnt you have too much sex, wasnt it addictive? If not then okay - I thought you would know what I mean.

Any way that was part of my wild wild past - heck I shouldnt have answered this question.

Enough of this topic.

thank you.

 

[cosmictraveler]

People who join the occult are just as ignorant as those who join a religion to worship anything.

 

[c7ityi_]

People who join the occult are just as ignorant as those who join a religion to worship anything.

it doesn't really matter.

 

[ellion]

Anything that you put before The Creator becomes a god to you.

did god tell you that? more importatnly who told you occultists had lots of sex? did you check out the site that woody linked
http://www.occultforums.com/

 

[Angelic Being]

more importatnly who told you occultists had lots of sex? did you check out the site that woody linked
http://www.occultforums.com/

Ask any occultist - oops thats if they give you a true answer - Ha! Ha!