Why Did God Create Us?

[TheVisitor]

Posted by Q25

Why did god create us..?
To torture us for eternity,obviously

{{{{{{{{{ }}}}}}}}}

That sounds familiar, where have I heard that before...?
Oh yes, when the Demons in Leigon said to Jesus...."Thou Son of God, hast thou come to torment us before the time..?

Hmm..... I'm picking up some bad vibes off you "Q25"

 

[wesmorris]

Gomer, you act like a coward

Originally posted by Gomer
You guys have a fairy tale for everything I post, so I might check back every once in a while to look around. Good luck to all on finding the meaning of life and why we were created. Keep previous posts in mind.

You say "fairy tale"? Oh man, I'm like, speechless. YOU of all people feeling qualified to dilineate a fairy tale from reality. You haven't backed up ONE of your claims nor directly refuted anyone elses. It's like you're living in some fantasy world where reciting dogma and pretending to run away will make you look cool somehow. Why are you here if you don't want to actually participate in a debate? I'm sure your cult has prepared your dogmatic response in advance. Let it rip!

It's like you don't even understand english or something. Maybe you just don't understand how a debate works... is that it? Okay, someone comes up with a topic and we all use our brains to contribute to the discussion. You seem like one of my daughters play 2 learn toys with more memory and better typing skills. I push a button on your hand and you spew jesus smack for 20 minutes. The button on your foot gets me mark, luke and mathew! You need to learn basic communication skills before attempting to debate.. read a book or soemthing. Communication is a two way deal.. we are not just making up "fairy tales" (LOL, I still can't believe you said that, it's so hick) we are using our brains to employ logic and reason to hypothesize and scrutinize regarding each other's arguments. YOU are not. Please, you're welcome to actually participate.

 

[wesmorris]

Regarding bad vibes...

Originally posted by TheVisitor
Posted by Q25
Hmm..... I'm picking up some bad vibes off you "Q25"

Brother, you're a source.. not a sink. You don't even like the people ON YOUR SIDE!!!!!!

Do you know why? It's because you act like pompous and presumptous jerk. HAH, YOU saying "I'm picking of bad vibes off of you" to ANYONE the pot calling the kettle black don't you think? You emit more bad vibes than maybe anyone I've ever uh.. interacted with on a message board... hmm.. well, close at least. You're amongst the most abrasive bastards out there.. so if that was your goal... well done!!!!!! (okay please now tell me something about how your goal is really to glorify god or whatever blah blah blah you have for us).

thanks

 

[TheVisitor]

Hey, your the one said let my lighter side out once in a while.

If you don't like it put on some sunglasses.....

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by TheVisitor
Hey, your the one said let my lighter side out once in a while.

If you don't like it put on some sunglasses.....

So that was you making a joke? Sorry, I'm not accustomed to it. My bad.

 

[Mrhero54]

Please give me your input on this.

SnakeLord,

Thank you for an excellant and logical analysis of Adam and Eve. I've had my problems with that chapter ever since i read the part where god punishes the snake (no pun intended) for Adam and Eve's actions. I've yet to get a good answer as to why that happened. Futhermore, i understand your agruement about how Adam and Eve didn't know the difference between right and wrong.

Consider this: Your parents tell you at a young age that Santa brings gifts on Christmas. They feed you, love you, and tell you to believe in Santa. As you grow older they become afraid of telling you the truth because it would be like admitting they were lying all those years. So, for the sake of your fragile heart they maintain the lie of Santa. Then the Easter Bunny comes and tells you that Santa is not not real. He tells you that your parents have been lying to you your whole life. There're responsible for the presents each year and don't want you to find out because you would know they've lied to you. Before the Easter Bunny said anything, you had just blindly accepted your parents words but now you have doubt. Now look at Adam's perdicament. He's only had God's word to go on until this snake appears with contray beliefs. It's like the Matrix. Adam could have been in the Matrix of God's lies and would have never know if it weren't for this kind and brave snake. Who's to say God wasn't lying and the snake's telling the truth? Just because God could instanly kill the snake doesn't mean he's right. Just because God created and loves you doesn't mean he telling the truth. All that means is that you *probably should * listen to God. But then again, if you use his past nature to guide you, then you should probaly believe your parents....

Get my point?

 

[Mrhero54]

Adam & Eve Please Explain ater reading above post.

If there is any part of the Bible open for debate it has to be this chapter. Why would god put the tree there if he did not intend for Adam and Eve to eat it? Why not place it on the moon if he "wants everyone to be happy and loved etc."? Why didn't he warn Adam and Eve of the snake (Satan) if he truly wanted them to live in the Garden of Eden forever? How did Satan get in "Paradise" in the first place (you'd think a place like that would have tight security!)? Jus questions for the Christians.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Persol,

Well... no. God is all knowing remember. There is no wondering for Him.

You totally miss the point of "all-knowing". When God envisioned us, He made us to me like Him. And He also gave us our individual personality. He created us. That what I meant for "wondering", He envisioned a good future for us.

There is also no 'imagining'.

Yes there is. God Loves imagination. He also Loves when we imagine. That's the way He creates, by imagining. Then, He put it into practice.

Well His OTHER personality is one of violence and destruction. Maybe you caught him on a good day.

He is NOT violent. Ignorant people that use His name in vain and blaspheme against Him, those are the ones that are violent.

Then he shouldn't have given us the option.

He has to give us the option because He Loves us.

Maybe you forgot about the Garden of Eden. I'd never kick my children out of paradise because they ate something.

You totally miss the point there. They sinned, and they couldn't stand in God's presence because of that. The best God could do was to let them go, because that's what Adam and Eve chose to do.

Ummmmmmm.... *shakes his head*

Who are you? Are you saying you know God better than I? You totally don't know Him! This is a pointless conversation. He doesn't condemn people. People condemn themselves. See Spetember 11? What? Do you blame that on God? That would be stupid, cause that is what men do, and not what God does.

Then he back hands us because we pronounced His name wrong and kills thousands of people. I'm missing the resemblance to a father figure. Was your father abusive or something?

Agin, you totally don't know God. And nobody knows His name. How can you say such thing? You never even read the Bible... And you don't know my father either. If you talk about him like that again I won't talk with you anymore.
He is a really great father...

No. He is a father because he created us. He may have wanted to be a father before hand, but he wasn't.

Christ has been His Son since the beginning...

So the Bible is there for what?

To guide us, of course...

So God is unable to otherwise?

Of course not. If you give lots of presents for your children and they don't accept it or kill themselves, or sin in any way, how can they receive those gifts? If you sin, you simply can't have it, not because He doesn't want to give to you, but because you chose not to receive.

Purely flawed utilitarian logic.

You are certainly NOT a father...:bugeye:

It's really pointless to talk with you since you have absolutly no knowledge of the Word of God. So better stop right here...

 

[Binary]

God is all knowing, but he also created all that there is to know. If god didn't create it, then it is not, therefore the knowledge of it is not.

Hope this points you in the right direction.

 

[Persol]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
You totally miss the point of "all-knowing".
All-knowing: the process of knowing everything. I missed what?

When God envisioned us, He made us to me like Him. And He also gave us our individual personality. He created us. That what I meant for "wondering", He envisioned a good future for us.
Saying that God 'wonders' doesn't make sense, because wonder has a component of the unknown... which is an all-knowing God would not have. Also, since God is 'perfect' our future would be whatever he designed it to be... no wondering if He was successful or not.

Yes there is. God Loves imagination.
He's all knowing. You don't imagine things that you know about. You think about them.

He also Loves when we imagine.
Off -topic and unfounded. Grats.

That's the way He creates, by imagining. Then, He put it into practice.
See previous message

He is NOT violent. Ignorant people that use His name in vain and blaspheme against Him, those are the ones that are violent.
Perhaps you remember that list of God's violence that I posted for you. Out of a large list you answered 1 or 2, purely by twisting the scripture.

He has to give us the option because He Loves us.
Do you give your kid a chance to kill your other kid because you love them?

You totally miss the point there. They sinned, and they couldn't stand in God's presence because of that.
God gave them the option to sin, knowing that they they would sin and be kicked out of paradise.

The best God could do was to let them go, because that's what Adam and Eve chose to do.
They had 2 'people' to believe, and they choose the wrong one. This granted the worst punishment ever handed down?

Who are you?
I am Persol. Nice to meet you.

Are you saying you know God better than I?
Yes.

You totally don't know Him!
Well isn't that special.

This is a pointless conversation.
It isn't nice to point.

He doesn't condemn people. People condemn themselves.
He judges. A judge (especially God) has the option to punish/condemn.

See Spetember 11? What? Do you blame that on God?
No. He's an absentee land-lord at the moment.

That would be stupid, cause that is what men do, and not what God does.
And God will condemn them for doing it. Or are you saying that they will get away with it? Of course since God is capable of anything, he also has the ability to forgive them. He will hopefully choose not to, and condemn them.

Agin, you totally don't know God.
I'm missing how you are trying to convince me of something... maybe I'm to stupid to understand:bugeye:

And nobody knows His name. How can you say such thing? You never even read the Bible...
I'll pull out the quote if you really want it.

And you don't know my father either.
Maybe I should just go with your argument and say "You totally don't know Him" and I do.

If you talk about him like that again I won't talk with you anymore. He is a really great father...
Don't tempt me

Christ has been His Son since the beginning...
We were talking about him being a father to us...

To guide us, of course...
Well you seem to say that love is the only rule, while you ignore the rest of the Bible.

Of course not.
Thanks for placing limitations on your view of God.

If you sin, you simply can't have it, not because He doesn't want to give to you, but because you chose not to receive.
He made the rules, so God did make the choice.

You are certainly NOT a father...
Thanks for the baseless assumption. It should be more then obvious to you that you can not always be right about what is best for other people.

It's really pointless to talk with you since you have absolutly no knowledge of the Word of God. So better stop right here...
Actually I do, as I've explained to you before. The problem comes when you makes leaps of 'faith' which make no sense and are self-contradictory.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by Persol
It's really pointless to talk with you since you have absolutly no knowledge of the Word of God. So better stop right here... [/B]
Actually I do, as I've explained to you before. The problem comes when you makes leaps of 'faith' which make no sense and are self-contradictory. [/B]

Actually, I think I've covered T's problem pretty in depth. T is an idiot, he is VERY VERY VERY BAD AT THINKING, though he had the potential to be pretty good at it. This leads one to initially think that this moron might be salvagable. He is not. He is in essence IMO, the worst of humanity because HE has betrayed his only true gift... his potential for thinking. It's really just sad.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Persol,

All-knowing: the process of knowing everything. I missed what?

Maybe reading Binary's post you might understand... *sigh....

Saying that God 'wonders' doesn't make sense, because wonder has a component of the unknown... which is an all-knowing God would not have. Also, since God is 'perfect' our future would be whatever he designed it to be... no wondering if He was successful or not.

Again, you totally miss the point of free will.

He's all knowing. You don't imagine things that you know about. You think about them.

He imagine things before He creates them. Again, read Binary's post. He described it nicely and easily...

Off -topic and unfounded. Grats.

That's totally on-topic. It is you that is going totally off-topic with your relion-bashing-sickning attitude.

Perhaps you remember that list of God's violence that I posted for you. Out of a large list you answered 1 or 2, purely by twisting the scripture.

No. It was you that totally twisted the scriptures.

Do you give your kid a chance to kill your other kid because you love them?

No. I tell them "don't do that", and if they do it is their own choice, and I can do nothing about it.

God gave them the option to sin, knowing that they they would sin and be kicked out of paradise.

Who said that.

They had 2 'people' to believe, and they choose the wrong one. This granted the worst punishment ever handed down?

There was no punishment. Do you feel punished?

Yes.

That's a joke, right?:bugeye:
You don't even know what's written in the Bible!!!!

He judges. A judge (especially God) has the option to punish/condemn.

No He doesn't. And even if He do so, His judgement is just because He knows the hearts of men.

And God will condemn them for doing it. Or are you saying that they will get away with it? Of course since God is capable of anything, he also has the ability to forgive them. He will hopefully choose not to, and condemn them.

You want God to condemn sinners, and yet you yourself is a sinner. You want Him to condemn sinners and yet, when He "condemns" people in the Bible you say He is not a loving God. Sounds like hypocrisy to me... :bugeye:

I'll pull out the quote if you really want it.

Oh well... go ahead...

Maybe I should just go with your argument and say "You totally don't know Him" and I do.

I was talking about my father on earth...

We were talking about him being a father to us...

And what? He treats us in the same way He treats Christ. What is your point?

Well you seem to say that love is the only rule, while you ignore the rest of the Bible.

The rest of the Bible say the same same thing.

Thanks for placing limitations on your view of God.

Of course there are limitations!!! See? You totally don't know the Bible!

1 John 1:5
"5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all."

God is Love. No death comes from Him. Nothing of bad comes from Him. Is that limiting Him? Yes. Is that bad? Certainly not.

He made the rules, so God did make the choice.

No, God never made rules. All that God did was to tell us how we can be like Him. The Law is based on His image. That's why it was given to us. Those are not really rules, those things are just the ones that He Himself doesn't do (and do). Of course, 1 Corinthians 16:14 and 1 John 3:11 summarize it very well...

Thanks for the baseless assumption. It should be more then obvious to you that you can not always be right about what is best for other people.

If you were a father, you would understand at least a tenth of what I'm saying. Not even that actually... you would understand more then a half. Unless you are a pretty bad and insensible father, of course.

Actually I do, as I've explained to you before. The problem comes when you makes leaps of 'faith' which make no sense and are self-contradictory.

So far only you have been self-contradictory...

 

[norad]

I've been reading this thread

and one thing that we must consider is this. Pretty much all religions base something in the sky-heaven. Think about that. What would be in the sky/heaven that all religions are based on? Before you get your egotistical, 'we are it' brains in action and fingers, think for one moment before your post.

 

[Binary]

The rest of the physical universe? Also its the only place you can be in when above the earth.

 

[norad]

Binary

This is true! What I was pointing at, and I know, there is no hard core evidence, is beings on another planet. I still think the light of the first day was the big bang described in the bible. In fact, I know that's what the light of the first day was! It wasn't the sun. Read Genesis if you have a bible under the uneven coffee table leg. Interesting to note that the Catholic church in 1951 accepted Edwin Hubbles big bang theory to be in accordance to scripture. So, the question is, who or what knew of this 2000 years ago? An intelligence that we can only dream of? I don't know, and this is why I feel we must get off of this 'we are it' kick because quite frankly, we are far from it!

 

[Binary]

What do you mean by "we are it"? Do you refer to the belief that we are the only men in the universe?

The first light was not the big bang. Catholics (along with any protenstant branches) historically or other wise are not christians, so the beliefs they hold are of no consequence. Light came to be through the the commandment of the law.

Note:

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

The King James Version

As can be seen here the light would have been a bit late if it was caused by the big bang. Also it is important to note that much of genesis (creation especially) can only be spiritually discerned and oftenly refer to a much greater whole than you might at first think to be relevant or even possible.

 

[norad]

Binary

Well, you have misinterpreted something here, or I have. The heaven and earth being void means they did not exist! At least, that's my take on it. Have a good one, Binary, I'm having some nectar of the god's-beer! So, you have some nectar too my friend. You have a good weekend, and maybe we'll chat again.

Oh, by the way, yes, I believe that we think that 'we are it' meaning exactly what you posted-Do you refer to the belief that we are the only men in the universe?

I don't say that, but it seems to me that most on this board do.

Have a great weekend! Be safe and all that.

 

[Persol]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Maybe reading Binary's post you might understand... *sigh
If you attempt to apply his post it won't work in your explaination. His argument says that nothing 'is' unless God created it. This goes against your free-will part.
And thanks for the *sigh. I didn't know I was that good looking.

Again, you totally miss the point of free will.
I know exactly what you mean to say by it, but you are not consistent in your explanation at all. Perhaps you could atleast attempt to explain free-will instead of just saying 'you totally miss the point'.

He imagine things before He creates them. Again, read Binary's post. He described it nicely and easily...
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Do you have a line 0 that says he imagined it first. Do not try and push it off as the 'truth' when it is, at best, personal opinion.

That's totally on-topic. It is you that is going totally off-topic with your relion-bashing-sickning attitude.
Well no. You said "He also Loves when we imagine". This has nothing to do with the discussion, but was just thrown in.
As for my 'relion-bashing-sickning attitude' it is actually and idiot-bashing attitude. There are theists on the site who I respect and have learned from... then there is you.

No. It was you that totally twisted the scriptures.
There are many many places I could quote... just picking at random:
Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
So nice and peaceful

No. I tell them "don't do that", and if they do it is their own choice, and I can do nothing about it.
Yes, you can do thinks to stop it. You don't just let your kids wail on each other.

Who said that.
He put the tree there for what? Do you leave things that will kill your kids laying in their reach?
Genesis 002:017 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Mark 16:18 ...and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them...

There was no punishment. Do you feel punished?
Genesis 003:024 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

That's a joke, right?
No

You don't even know what's written in the Bible!!!!
Most all of us know what is written in it. The difference is that your interpretations make no damn sense.

Persol: A judge (especially God) has the option to punish/condemn
Seeker: No He doesn't.
judge - To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration

And even if He do so, His judgement is just because He knows the hearts of men.
So you ae going to make another excuse after I show you why it doesn't make sense, ignoring the fact that it this is flaw in your understanding?

You want God to condemn sinners, and yet you yourself is a sinner. You want Him to condemn sinners and yet, when He "condemns" people in the Bible you say He is not a loving God. Sounds like hypocrisy to me...
No. It's called consistancy. Sometimes He is a loving God, and sometimes He isn't. The Bible shows this. I fully expect a God to condemn people, but these 'condemnations' do not need to be of the same degree.

Oh well... go ahead...
Jerimiah 10:25 Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name...

I was talking about my father on earth...
Yes I know. And I still say 'You totally don't know him". I know him better then you. I have much move evidence that he was a bad father, then you have that God is a loving one. Mainly the fact that he raised a kid who will not think for himself..

And what? He treats us in the same way He treats Christ. What is your point?
Christ is very obviously a 'special case'. It is the son, father, holy spirit... not the son(s and daughters).

The rest of the Bible say the same same thing.
Except the parts where God lets his kids kill each other, and sometimes tells them to.

Of course there are limitations!!! See? You totally don't know the Bible!
1 John 1:5 5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
God is Love. No death comes from Him. Nothing of bad comes from Him. Is that limiting Him? Yes. Is that bad? Certainly not.
The difference is that some limitations are based on scripture, while you others are based on your leaders whim.

No, God never made rules.
Please try and define a sinner without refering to the rules God made.

If you were a father, you would understand at least a tenth of what I'm saying. Not even that actually... you would understand more then a half. Unless you are a pretty bad and insensible father, of course.
I can see I am talking right past you. Very simply JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING FOR YOU CHILDREN, DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try, but you MUST realize that you can not always know what is best for someone else.

So far only you have been self-contradictory...
Perhaps you could attempt to pint this out.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Persol,

My comments have a much more spiritual depth then those of most people. That's why you have difficulty trying to understand me. Read my answer below to norad, and you might compare my answer with Binary's answer....

 

[TruthSeeker]

norad,

and one thing that we must consider is this. Pretty much all religions base something in the sky-heaven. Think about that. What would be in the sky/heaven that all religions are based on? Before you get your egotistical, 'we are it' brains in action and fingers, think for one moment before your post.

It is not much about the physical postition, but it is more a spiritual position. Heavens, high in the sky and earth below. Heavens being infinite and earth being finite. In a spiritual perspective, Heavens is not even located high above, but actually within:

Luke 17:20-21
"20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;
21 nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst." "

Heavens is more a spiritual condition rather then a physical one.