Baron Max said:
Divided and isolationist ..in much the same way as it's found with virtually every other animal in nature. The only reasons humans have "integrated" is through FORCE! Every single instance of it! Can't anyone see history clearly enough to understand that? And yet we tout freedom as though its actually freedom ...it isn't. We humans have to be FORCED into doing almost everything ...from how to raise our children to how fast to drive our cars to wearing seatbelts to how we should feel about and deal with other humans. Force, always force.
If it was "forced" as you say, then tolerance would be mandated, which it is not. You still have the freedom to move to any place you'd like and surround yourself with all white people, in an all white town and then pass laws in that area that would go against all of this. Hell, you can build your own village in a different place, an island maybe where you could become anything you wanted. No one is forcing you to stay here and mix with other races. No one is forcing anything. But if you choose (and it is a choice) to live in America, you cannot discriminate against people according to race. Doing so is against the law. But hating them is not against the law, and being intolerant of them is also not against the law. You still have the freedom to do whatever you'd like, as long as it doesn't infringe on their rights as an American. If you don't like it, move. You have the freedom to do that as well. The majority of society is no longer segregated because the majority of society knows that civil rights are important to human beings.
Baron Max said:
We humans have to be FORCED into doing almost everything.
This is correct. Because the vast majority of people are too stupid to take care of themselves or make good decisions for themselves. Look at all the shitty things that happen to people at the hands of stupid fucks who don't care about you or me. It's not racial though, so I am not sure what your point there was. You want true "freedom" then it comes at a sacrifice. It always has, throughout history.
Baron Max said:
Of course you could advance ...check out history. In fact, most of the human advancements in early history came from segregated societies.
Not true. Societies barely advance at all without sharing of information and technologies either stolen or shared from other races and regions.
As to sitting with a shotgun, there wouldn't be any niggers or spics or chinks or honkies or towel-heads or jews or rednecks or ....anyone else that your society didn't want around. There'd be police and border guards to prevent the illegal incursion of anyone that wasn't wanted. The citizens could put away their guns without fear ...because no one would riot or yell 'discrimination!' or cry to the police about racist attitudes.
And this same isolation would be true of all of the societies in the area ....you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone.
No one is denying you the right to do this. There is plenty of inhabitable land left on the earth that you can set up your own colony and do just that. No one is stopping you, nor could they stop you.
Baron Max said:
No! Tolerance is FORCED upon members of society ..it's NOT important, it's something that's forced upon people who are supposed to be free to choose the life that they want and the friends with which they deal.
Tolerance is also a bullshit phrase/term that's intended to force us all to cowtow to the psycho-babble about racial (or whatever) dislike and discrimination. Doesn't it seem odd to you for people to be FORCED to tolerant someone/something that they don't like???
Again, you are placing your personal belief system ahead of the reality of what is actually happening. Tolerance is not forced, but it is encouraged. Anti-discrimination, at least in America is forced. There is a difference.
I don't feel forced to tolerate anyone. I don't even have to tolerate you. I can put you on ignore here, and I can put you on ignore in real life through walking away from you, not listening or if you get violent, a restraining order. It's as simple as that. No one is forcing me to accept and love other people regardless of what they look like, what ideas they have or what life choices they make. I don't have to read left-wing bleeding heart liberal media, anymore than I have to read right-wing fanatic media either. I can choose to believe what I want to believe. I only have to treat people as equals, but I don't have to like them.
Baron Max said:
Waht ye're doing, thinking about, is an illogical and blatantly oppressive attempt to FORCE people to feel and act around people that they don't like. If they were ONLY with people that they liked, "tolerance" would not be an issue. And certainly not one that had to be FORCED upon the citizens.
Again, this is your personal belief system, and certainly not the majority consensus. Since you are the one always saying how important the "majority voice" is on the gay rights issue, you should be the first one to understand that the majority of Americans support civil rights and anti-discrimination laws. It's majority vote in America, love it, change it or leave it.
Baron Max said:
I don't deny that. But at the same time, all ye're advocating is that a society should FORCE people to get to know people that they've decided that they don't like! ...for whatever reason. This doesn't have to be skin color. It could be religion. It could be sexual preferences. It could be length of dick!!! (...hmm, would that be "dick-ism"??) It could be size of tits! (tit-ism?)
I'm not advocating tolerance. I am simply saying that tolerance and compassion for all people is the path of least resistance when it comes to society. I by no means have ever said that people should be forced to tolerate each other. I don't believe that they should. I don't tolerate child-molesters, sex-offenders, murderers, criminals in general, or skin-heads. I personally don't want them near me, don't want to be forced to like them, don't want to be forced to live next to them. But I am not. I can move, pass laws, ignore them, get restraining orders, and anything of the like... because I am not forced to tolerate them. I cannot infringe on their rights however, which doesn't include me liking them.
Baron Max said:
By the way ...is it your place to tell other people what they're "missing" out on? You might like "rap" music, but you shouldn't try to force others to like it. And the others shouldn't be force to listen to it if they don't want to ...even they ARE "missing" out on the wonderful lyrics about blacks killing the honky cops and taking cocaine and fucking the women!
It was merely an example, I am in no place to tell anyone what to like or dislike... I never said that at all. Your shock tactics are as transparent as they are terminally stupid.
Baron Max said:
And that's not happening now??? Of course it is! ...all over the world, those exact things are happening all the time. Have you isolated yourself so completely that you can't see what's happening in the world?
That also happens in the animal world. And if a group overbreeds their land capacity, they starve to death. It should be the same with the segregated human populations, too.
And that's fine for them. If people want to segregate, then I wouldn't oppose that at all, it's personal choice based on personal belief system. However, it won't be happening within the U.S. Border because the laws of the majority are against it. But still no one is forcing you to live here, and no one is keeping you from trying to pass laws so that it can happen in America. There is still a town in Texas that has a sign at each of the entrances to the place that say, "If you're a nigger, don't let the sun set on your here.". And I don't even oppose that.
I have never insinuated that it's the right way to live, only stated the reasons why it seems that it's the easier and better choice. It boils down to one person convictions and ones personal right to protect those convictions. But when you choose to live among society, you choose to live by majority or ruling class laws. It's the nature of the human race. You can be ruling class if you choose, you just have to find a place to start a society that supports it.
Baron Max said:
Which has little or nothing to do with the issue at hand. Peace and civil rights would be an issue within each isolated society ...white people need civil rights, too, ya' know. The blacks and chinks and spics, etc would have their own little world and they could have their own brand of civil rights if they wanted it ...if not, fuck 'em!
Everyone has civil rights. I don't see where I said that whites were excluded from that. Please don't confuse affirmative action with civil rights.
Baron Max said:
What does being a warmonger have to do with it? I think human history is pretty plain on that issue. Most wars and oppression has been between "races" of humans ...and even between humans of different religions/cultures. I.e., the foolish attempts to integrate those populations have almost always resulted in wars and conflicts.
Well no. Foolish attempts at providing a specific line in the sand that each side had to keep from crossing resulted in wars and conflicts. When societies were integrated, they flourished. America is a case in point, as is Canada and many other places worldwide. When two races mix without borders, they do just fine. It's when people draw lines in the dirt that the problem occurs.
Baron Max said:
The Chinese have been segregated for a gazillion years and there's been very little internal conflict. And certainly not of a racial or cultural nature. Why do you suppose that is?? And why don't you question that?
And they have over-bred resulting in laws to be passed to restrict families to no more than one child. Abortions rates are nearly three times the rate of any other country and many women kill their children within hours of their birth when they are given the gender they did not want.They have an alarming crime rate, that is mostly unreported because they want outside countries to continue to trade with them. They have been sited for serious human rights violations, and have huge problems with Tuberculosis and Polio. AIDS is spreading quickly, especially among the young there and is up 30% from 2000.
Baron Max said:
And please don't forget ...I'm not advocating forcing people to live in segrationist societies. If you and others want to live in integrated groups, fine ..please do so. But don't force others who don't wnat integration to be/live in integrated societies. It just causes problems. If you want those problems, fine, but don't force it upon others who don't want it.
I'm not advocating or forcing anyone to live any other way than how they choose to live. I'm not even advocating that you tolerate it, only explaining that the laws are not in your favour on this particular issue, and if you would like to live as you please you are free to do so at any point.
Baron Max said:
And please don't condemn or denigrate those who don't think like you do. Even if you think they're wrong, just remember, they think YOU are wrong. Hell, for that matter, "I'm right, ye're wrong" is already a pretty divisive principle, ain't it? Or does tolerance only count in racial discussions and not with dicussions of ideas?
Baron Max
I did not condemn or denigrate anyone. Please do not accuse me of things I did not do/say in my post. I am not the rest of sciforums, so please don't accuse me of things I did not do. I never said that you were wrong, or that anyone else is wrong for not agreeing with what I said. I was just explaining the ideas about it, not attacking your personal belief system. You asked for valid reasons why people should try to tolerate each other and I gave them. Save the drama for your local community productions please.