Who said these words?

[okinrus]

M*W: Then why didn't Jesus write anything himself? People who never knew him (Paul) did most of the writing, or he told MML&J what to write i.e. fulfillments of the OT prophecies.

Instead of tablets of stone that God wrote the ten commandments, God would write his law on their hearts. For this reason, Jesus does not write down his message. Himself being the Word of God may speak to us anytime he wishes.

M*W: If they weren't "apostles" (i.e. teachers), then how did all the dogma get written into the various man-made religions?

I should have used Apostles. An Apostle is one of the twelve or Paul while apostle means someone sent from God. Both sort of imply the bringing divine relevation. There are no Teachers but God.

M*W: Then you're saying the One Spirit of God that dwells within humanity would forbid (i.e. prevent) any non-truths from entering into the body (of the church)?

Specifically, only doctrin is solemnly proclaimed.

But this has already happened. Look at all the man-made religions out there! What happens to those human beings who believe in false doctrines?

Well M*W you have made your God out to be collection of men and women. If any religion may be man-made, it's yours. It really depends on what false doctrin and whether the person was ignorant or not. You question cannot be answered because God alone judges.

Certainly, our human/divine nature is more complex than that. To explain this further, I'll need to write a book on it, and I'm working on that right now

Have you written other books?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by okinrus
Well M*W you have made your God out to be collection of men and women. If any religion may be man-made, it's yours. It really depends on what false doctrin and whether the person was ignorant or not. You question cannot be answered because God alone judges.

Have you written other books?
----------
M*W: My God is not just a "collection of men and women." My God is the all of creation manifested in the greatest of all creations--humanity. What I believe is not a religion. It doesn't need an organized religion to manifest in the world. It's personal and independent thought, like a philosophy. You have already said that I am not the first to describe this philosophy, that it's been written about by others. I never claimed to have a new philosophy. I have expressed my personal beliefs as I understand them, but this is not a man-made religion, and certainly not a philosophy that I alone personally created for humanity.

I have published a series of reference books on graduate medical education that are used widely in most of the medical schools in the USA and Canada, but not under the name Medicine*Woman. I have also published several books of spiritual and feminist poetry (thealogy), but under a pseudonym of which you wouldn't be familiar. I'm now working on a manuscript about spiritual atonement in several generations of a family.

 

[okinrus]

I have published a series of reference books on graduate medical education that are used widely in most of the medical schools in the USA and Canada, but not under the name Medicine*Woman.

I would think so.

I have also published several books of spiritual and feminist poetry (thealogy), but under a pseudonym of which you wouldn't be familiar. I'm now working on a manuscript about spiritual atonement in several generations of a family.

Doesn't seem to be the kind of stuft I would be interested in. I actually asked to see whether this was a dream or something that you were really working on.

I never claimed to have a new philosophy. I have expressed my personal beliefs as I understand them, but this is not a man-made religion, and certainly not a philosophy that I alone personally created for humanity.

I use religion knowing that your particular belief system is not an organized religion. You said that God was manifested in humanity. This means that all of creation is created by humanity and God did not exist without humanity existing in some form. Now for whatever the name you call your beliefs, they must have been created by humanity. This is not to say that they don't reflect reality or that they have not been created by God. In fact, I think your whole reaction against man-made things is that they are not women-made.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by okinrus
The end of Mathew shows his disciples worshiping him. Since Jesus claims that he is the light, I cannot see him differently.

You miss the point again and worship a light that only supposed to point to the creator.

So, If your creator was a bit hidden or vague from your site, yet you as a creation are the biggest proof that a creator exist and someone came and offered you a light to look at your creator, you'll start worshipping the light instead of your creator?????

Go worship the light then, because god will take away your light which is only designed temporarily for humans to see god and not to stand on it's own.

The Cow
[2.20] The lightning almost takes away their sight; whenever it shines on them they walk in it, and when it becomes dark to them they stand still; and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have taken away their hearing and their sight; surely Allah has power over all things.


[2.17] Their parable is like the parable of one who kindled a fire but when it had illumined all around him, Allah took away their light, and left them in utter darkness-- they do not see.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by guthrie
Are you a muslim, or a hybrid, or pagan or what?

And you expect me to answer you???? Direct the same question to yourself and see how you'll feel?? How would you feel if all your life, your senses, your love, your ideas, your passion, your work, your believes, ect...have been constrained and compressed to one word...Is it fair to compress the whole of me into one word? Wouldn't that be a lie? In what logic is that possible?

Please rephrase your question, because the only answer I could find for your general question is:
I'm what I'm and that's all that I am.

 

[Markx]

Originally posted by Flores
[. [/B]

Very good Post Flores and very good points.

 

[okinrus]

You miss the point again and worship a light that only supposed to point to the creator.

There are no other true lights in heaven.

So, If your creator was a bit hidden or vague from your site, yet you as a creation are the biggest proof that a creator exist and someone came and offered you a light to look at your creator, you'll start worshipping the light instead of your creator?????

Our creator does not need a light. He is the light. "The city had no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gave it light, and its lamp was the Lamb."(Revelation 21:22) "Now this is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you: God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all."(1 John)

Go worship the light then, because god will take away your light which is only designed temporarily for humans to see god and not to stand on it's own.

I'm uncertain what your trying to say. Does your God need light in order to be seen? Then it seems the light is a part of God because we know that God needs nothing and that there is nothing between us and God.

[2.17] Their parable is like the parable of one who kindled a fire but when it had illumined all around him, Allah took away their light, and left them in utter darkness-- they do not see.

It seems Allah likes to take away light. You do not believe in predestination so pease explain. Perhaps you will see this parable in Isaiah 50:10
"Who among you fears the LORD(Yahweh), heeds his servant's voice, And walks in darkness without any light, Trusting in the name of the LORD and relying on his God? All of you kindle flames and carry about your fiery darts; Walk by the light of your own fire and by the flares you have burnt? This is your fate from my hand: you shall lie down in a place of pain."

 

[spidergoat]

That was amazing genius spidergoat.. so full of logic...Who are YOU accusing of weak arguments?

Why is this a weak argument? It was my understanding that someone suggested that: since Jesus calls God THEE, that Jesus couldn't not in fact be God. I'm suggesting that when speaking of omniscient beings, such conventions do not apply. In Hinduism, all beings are seen as facets of God playing hide and seek with itself. This hiding is also refered to as free will. Since God could control everything, including our thoughts and motivations, but chooses not too, this is an example of him "hiding" a portion of the controllable universe from himself. Scientific logic does not apply to a universe where anything is possible. In fact, it doesn't even apply on the quantuum level.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by okinrus
Doesn't seem to be the kind of stuft I would be interested in. I actually asked to see whether this was a dream or something that you were really working on.
----------
M*W: Everything begins as a dream.
-----
I use religion knowing that your particular belief system is not an organized religion. You said that God was manifested in humanity. This means that all of creation is created by humanity and God did not exist without humanity existing in some form. Now for whatever the name you call your beliefs, they must have been created by humanity. This is not to say that they don't reflect reality or that they have not been created by God. In fact, I think your whole reaction against man-made things is that they are not women-made.
----------
M*W: Before humanity was created (evolved), there was God. I believe that God always was, always is, and always will be a force of positive energy (i.e. creative energy). I'll give you a brief analogy: The end of one thing brings about the beginning of another. For example, what we know about the beginning of our universe was that it was without form and void. Then our solar was created. At the center of our solar system is the sun. The sun provided the Earth with just the right amount of heat to melt the glaciers which created our oceans and rivers and brought about the simplest life forms. These life forms evolved into humanity as we know it today. God has been there all the while, thus the need or desire for humanity has been there all along. The creation of the universe was no accident, because there are no accidents, and there is synchronicity in the universe (i.e. the timing of creation coincided with God's plan. This force of positive energy (God) is the creative force of nature. The most powerful force in our solar system is the sun (Helios) from where all creation came. Then is God the sun? Yes, the sun was ultimately responsible for the creation of our universe and everything in it. Was creation then an accident? No. The infant humans looked up in the sky and feared the blazing sun, but as humans evolved, we learned to make good use of the sun in our daily lives (i.e. for hunting and agriculture, etc.). (I'm not going to discuss the moon here, because I want to focus on the creative force of the sun). The sun was a fickle God. It was the only God.It would die in the night, and when darkness fell, the infant human feared the darkness, but the sun ("son" of God = all humanity) would rise again (resurrect) in the morning just as all humanity (the "son" of God) evolved and was resurrected over the millenia. Here we are today, still searching for God, still arguing about our diverse perceptions of our creator. We still fear God, because God can strike us dead if we don't worship and fear it. The death and resurrection of the sun of God created a sense of time for the young humanity as we multiplied across the face of the Earth. This God who dwells within our solar system also dwells within all of creation. This God provided the heat that created the universe and nurtured its creation ("son" of God). This God not only gives us light, this God IS light. This God influenced the growing and learning humanity to create fire. This God energizes the human spirit from the "fire" (lifeforce) within. This God gave us the heat of passion to propagate the Earth. This God gives to creation, and this God takes away from creation. This God who created humanity is also responsible for the creating the timing of the onset of our genetic decay. This God is the alpha and the omega. All of creation including humanity is also the alpha and the omega. This God is life. This God is all-powerful force of positive energy. This God is always present even in darkness. There is no salvation (i.e "resurrection" of the body, mind and the spirit) of humanity without this God. This God creates us, nurtures us, and resurrects us daily for eternity. This God provided the template for the earliest human religions. This God was the prototype for the human invention of a place called "hell" (Helios). There is no death to this God. There is no death to humanity. The end of one thing is the beginning of another. The beginning is the end. The first and the last. God and Humanity will never die, because God is always in the process of creating (the most powerful force of positive energy). This God is the one true Creator. Humanity is the only "son" (creation) of God. "God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God." Humanity is "one in being" with the Sun. Through the Sun, "all things are made" for our humanity "and our salvation." The Sun "came down from heaven," created us on Earth through the womb of our mother where we were "baptized" in the amniotic fluid of her womb. As human beings, we suffer (toil) as we progress through our lifespan. Those who are "not busy being born are busy dying" as from birth our energy begins to decline. As the light from the Sun dies and is resurrected, our light (lifeforce) starts to flicker, and the fire (spirit) goes out ending the process of our genetic decay). Early humanity recognized the loss of the warm breath of life and learned to bury as well as mourn and memorialize their dead. God and humanity are always in the process of death and resurrection, creation and recreation. The fire of our lifeforce doesn't end permanently, but it simply returns (ascends) to the source of it's creation, the energy and light of the Sun. The Sun comes in "glory" everyday of our life bringing to us light, heat, energy, warmth, passion, ardor, and the fire of our spirit. Everyday is new day of judgment for both the "living and the dead." Our lives depend on the daily action of the Sun. Creation will never end.

Sorry for the length in making my point. I wanted to comment on your last statement about my "whole reaction against man-made things." My feelings are: Woman is a positive and creative force by nature. Man is a negative and destructive force by nature. In the "beginning," when God took Adam's rib to create Eve, this signifies that the spirit of the one perfect human being (Adam was the template for all humanity), and was divided into two separate forces--positive creative energy is personified as Eve, an negative, destructive energy is personified as Adam. Since God (the Sun) is the source of ALL energy, this energy in humanity was separated (but only for a time on Earth). The battle of the sexes has been ongoing since the beginning of time (no such thing, but...). The human race spiritually evolved in two diverse directions (+ and -) = (good and evil). As humanity continues on its way toward a more evolved breed, the division of the genders will reconverge into one. We're seeing this occurring now more than ever before (unisex, androgyny, etc.), and we're more aware of the obvious differences in the genders throughout the ages and the woes to humanity it caused. For example, the destruction of the matriarchal society by the patriarchs (the misogynists) who recorded "his-story" from a male perspective (also known as the Old Testament). When the male tribal members were out for the kill, it was them females of the tribe who hunted small animals and gathered plants and roots to keep their progeny alive until the males returned with the meat and cooked and carved it (there is a gene on the Y chromosome that causes men, even to this day, to hunt for their meat, cook on an open firepit (i.e. BBQ), proudly carve and distribute their kill to the tribal members as a celebration (i.e. Thanksgiving). (There is another gene on the Y chromosome that causes men to "think" they have a need to build shelves. Every man I've known has had this gene, but I've never seen any shelves built any of them. It's one of those "mutant" genes we've heard about). Women were the first slaves. I'm sure you've heard that the "oldest profession" is prostitution. If that's true, then I say the second oldest profession is midwifery (my profession). Since recorded history, men have enslaved women, prostituted them, raped them, molested them, killed them, and rarely if ever, loved or nurtured them. They used women like they were "brood mares." Thanks to the patriarchy, the folks who gave us religion (yes, all man-made), were also responsible for the infighting amongst themselves (thanks to their destructive male, war-like nature), we now have millions of man-made religions to confuse humanity who continues (even as we speak) to fight over their evilly created man-made religions! Out from their negative spirit (let's just call it evil spirit), man-made religions sprouted such historical events as the killing of their firstborn sons (jealous Fathers, I'd say), the creation of a "new" religion (hey, the old one was bad enough!)requiring one of their rabbis to die for all mankind. (Why did their savior have to be male? That's sexual discrimination). Let's not forget the folks down at The Inquisition, the Witch-Burnings, The Burning Times, THE Holocaust, all the other holocausts the world has known, and all the wars they waged and proudly recorded in their his-story book. The good old boys from the patriarchy also gave us all our dictators, totalitarians, czars, despots, you name it. The patriarchy has had his day, but his day is gone (thanks to the folks who gave us evolution). As the divided spirit of Adam and Eve returns to its Godly state, we will see a blending of the genders into one gender (androgyny). With the remerging of the genders into one body, one spirit, one mind, there will be no more battle of the sexes. Before this evolves, there will be a complete blending of all the races into One Body, because our spirit has always been One Spirit of God. God=Humanity=God. This One Body of Humanity contains the One Spirit of God. We are God evolving. Then the Adam (the "earthling") will be the perfect creation which is God in a "world without end." So, in answer to your question, it's not my personal dislike of all things man-made (with the one exception of their entire history in the universe--God only knows I've had my fair share of these evil creatures.), I'm just glad to be a woman who has a positive vision for the future of humanity. God.

 

[(Q)]

M*W: Before humanity was created (evolved), there was God. I believe that God always was, always is, and always will be a force of positive energy (i.e. creative energy). I'll give you a brief analogy:

Although not really brief, it is certainly a well thought out fantasy you have going there. Do you spend a lot of time fantasizing?

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by okinrus
I'm uncertain what your trying to say. Does your God need light in order to be seen? Then it seems the light is a part of God because we know that God needs nothing and that there is nothing between us and God.

I swear you're so thick oikinrus.....When did I ever say that god needs light???. huh, answer me.... We are the idiots that need light to see god. For our protection, we have been veiled from the true light of god which is blinding and if made visible to us, all matters would be settled at once and no more lives to be lived. We are veiled from god and some of us have thicker veils than others. Jesus yolk was light and his veil thin, all prophets were, and thus he was almost transparent to god and reflected god's message without lies....We are to listen to Jesus because he knew god much better than any of us could, not becauese he is god, but because he is one of the ways to god. Don't you tell me that god needs light, god's light would dim anyother light in comparison, and don't you tell me that there is nothing between us and god, because there is plenty between us and god, and you are lying to yourself if you think that there is nothing between you and god...for one you are flesh and your life and all it's detail is between you and god.

Unfortunately, you will never get that basic concept that Jesus life and message was ONE of the availalbe lights that can describe god to us...instead you worship Jesus and so let Jesus be beneficial to you on the day that your veil will be removed and god's light will be blinding and will make even Jesus's light dim.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by okinrus
It seems Allah likes to take away light.

Will you at least try to address your creator with a bit of respect regardless of the language you use to utter the name....???? Allah is not some immigrant friend of yours that you can like him in his English name and scorn him in arabic, or just use his arabic name when you wish to scorn him....and his English name when you wish to glorify him....He is not a freakin yoyo.....Respect him in all languages will you? God is not English or Arabic....Our creator god all mighty doesn't literally take away lights, but when he shines, or when the truth is manifest, lies are exposed, and god will be made manisfest, no other truth will have any room for existance.

Originally posted by okinrus
You do not believe in predestination so pease explain.

I never said that I don't believe in predestination....I believe that evil is predestined to lowly places and the pure is predestined to pervail. We are free to make our picks in whether to be evil or pure and the destination of either route is known.

 

[okinrus]

Will you at least try to address your creator with a bit of respect regardless of the language you use to utter the name....????

I don't see how it was desrespectable. I said, "It seems". I was intended that you give a further explanation of what Allah actually does in this passage.

Allah is not some immigrant friend of yours that you can like him in his English name and scorn him in arabic, or just use his arabic name when you wish to scorn him....and his English name when you wish to glorify him....He is not a freakin yoyo.....

Well I used Allah because the sentance in the Quran used Allah.

I never said that I don't believe in predestination....I believe that evil is predestined to lowly places and the pure is predestined to pervail. We are free to make our picks in whether to be evil or pure and the destination of either route is known.

By predestination, I mean the theology put forth by Calvin. You know the one where every sinner is predestined to go to hell. It rules out free will because it is not by choice but that they are predestined. Since all muslims that I know believe in free will, I assumed that you believed in free will.

 

[okinrus]

I swear you're so thick oikinrus.....When did I ever say that god needs light???. huh, answer me....

God necessarly needs light because that is the only way that we may see his glory correct? I'm not speaking of physical light here. You are contending that there is a mediator between God and man named light that shows us God.

We are the idiots that need light to see god. For our protection, we have been veiled from the true light of god which is blinding and if made visible to us, all matters would be settled at once and no more lives to be lived. We are veiled from god and some of us have thicker veils than others.

Ok, the Quran says that Allah veils somone. Why would God do that? The old testament story of Moses says that Moses talked to God face to face yet did not see God, but after speaking with God his face would glow and Moses put a veil over himself.

Jesus yolk was light and his veil thin, all prophets were, and thus he was almost transparent to god and reflected god's message without lies....

Well this is not what Jesus claimed in the bible. He said that he was the light. He also told Philip that seeing him was seeing the Father. He is thus not just a reflection of God's glory. While men are made in the image of God in the likeness of God, Jesus is the image of God.

We are to listen to Jesus because he knew god much better than any of us could, not becauese he is god, but because he is one of the ways to god.

Jesus claimed to be the way and the only way.

Don't you tell me that god needs light, god's light would dim anyother light in comparison, and don't you tell me that there is nothing between us and god, because there is plenty between us and god, and you are lying to yourself if you think that there is nothing between you and god...for one you are flesh and your life and all it's detail is between you and god.

No, the only thing between me and God is my sin.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

!

Originally posted by (Q)
M*W: Before humanity was created (evolved), there was God. I believe that God always was, always is, and always will be a force of positive energy (i.e. creative energy). I'll give you a brief analogy:

Although not really brief, it is certainly a well thought out fantasy you have going there. Do you spend a lot of time fantasizing?

---------
M*W: Thank you! I apologize for the lengthy posts, but I'm a writer, and once I get started, it's sometimes hard to stop. My writing is like an addiction. You know, I was an only child growing up in the dense and isolated mountain woods enjoying nature and contemplating the purpose of life. From my earliest recollection, I had a vivid imagination and truly enjoyed my life. I was a curious child always filled with the wonderment of my surroundings. I did fantasize about things in nature and spirituality. I never had a sense of need for religion. I worshipped nature. For a child, I feel sure I had inner wisdom, because I often got whipped with a hickory switch for sharing it. My perception of life stemmed from what I learned from my great grandparents and my grandparents and older folks in the those hills. Although I was a baby boomer, my world was filled with people from the post Civil War years who were the greatest influence on me. I feel like I really lived during those times, and because of it, I seemed to have a personal contact with other eras in history due to my grandparents having lived those years. I still fantasize about my early natural surroundings, in fact, I dream about them almost every night of my life, even now. I've never fantasized about sci-fi, in fact, I don't like it. I couldn't care less about Star Wars, Star Trek or Stargate. I don't like to read fiction. From my earliest memory, I knew about the soul, even though I couldn't explain it. For whatever reason, I have a gift of being able to see other people's souls. I know this sounds crazy, but I think my "education" (not the school kind) created this ability in me. Some people call me psychic, but I just don't see this as being true. I have always credited my being born under a lucky star or something, because I've always been so damn lucky my whole life. Even when things start to look abysmal, something always happens to make everthing not only turn out right, but even better than they were before. I think my positive attitude has a lot to do with it. Whatever it is, it works for me. I'm gonna stop here, because this could turn into yet another book!

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by okinrus

No, the only thing between me and God is my sin.
----------
M*W: The body we have is mortal as it will experience genetic decay. The flesh is corruptible. Our eternal soul, the One Spirit of God, dwells within our flesh while we are here on Earth. Our flesh is our Earthsuit. There is no death to the soul. The only thing separating you and God is your skin.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by okinrus
Since all muslims that I know believe in free will, I assumed that you believed in free will.

It have nothing to do with being a muslim or not, I believe in free will because I can sense it, feel it, touch it, act on it, not act on it....My freewill indeed exist, the only problem is that I can't take back my actions, but I'm free to make any action that I chose.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by okinrus
God necessarly needs light because that is the only way that we may see his glory correct?

Incorrect. God doesn't need the light. We are the one that need the light to see god...Jesus offered us a light, but obviously some christians misunderstood him and corrupted his message. Muhammed offered another light, and some muslims corrupted their own light too. God could care less who chose to get guided and who is as stubborn as mule and insist on being in the darkness.

Originally posted by okinrus
Ok, the Quran says that Allah veils somone. Why would God do that?

To test the true belief of people. People are veiled from god by their lives.... It's called respite. If god wish to expose himself to us, he would just make us all die or never born and we could see god all the time and there wouldn't be arguments....We would be like the angel soldiers.....Let me give you an example. If I want to test your knowledge in Physics. I would give you a test and conceal the answer from you. If I show you the answer I would be defying the purpose of the test...right? Do you get it? God wishes to elevate man to a rank higher than that of the angels, a rank into which humans submit and believe in god because they chose to and not because they are designed and told to. We are better than robots.

Originally posted by okinrus
Well this is not what Jesus claimed in the bible. He said that he was the light.

And what does the light means???? The moon exist all the time, but we are unable to see the moon without the sun light...Jesus is telling us the same thing...God exist, and Jesus came to the ignorance and pagan world to shine a light unto god to guide people into god's way....That's all...Why do you read more into things??

Originally posted by okinrus
Jesus claimed to be the way and the only way.

He offered the way to the pagans and the ignorant who believed in stones instead of god...We already know our way to god, so why do you insist in worshipping Jesus...Are you a pagan or something.??

Originally posted by okinrus
No, the only thing between me and God is my sin.

You are wrong....As MW says, the only thing between you and god is skin. When you die, you'll know the truth whether you are good or bad, and if you were bad, you'll wish you were lower and less significant than a rock, because at least the rock performed it's duty while you failed.

 

[miss khan]

Why is this a weak argument? It was my understanding that someone suggested that: since Jesus calls God THEE, that Jesus couldn't not in fact be God. I'm suggesting that when speaking of omniscient beings, such conventions do not apply. In Hinduism, all beings are seen as facets of God playing hide and seek with itself. This hiding is also refered to as free will. Since God could control everything, including our thoughts and motivations, but chooses not too, this is an example of him "hiding" a portion of the controllable universe from himself. Scientific logic does not apply to a universe where anything is possible. In fact, it doesn't even apply on the quantuum level.

ok, ok. I see what you're saying. I just found the whole "hide & seek" notion a strange way of describing God. But I see your point.

 

[okinrus]

To test the true belief of people. People are veiled from god by their lives.... It's called respite. If god wish to expose himself to us, he would just make us all die or never born and we could see god all the time and there wouldn't be arguments....We would be like the angel soldiers.....Let me give you an example. If I want to test your knowledge in Physics. I would give you a test and conceal the answer from you. If I show you the answer I would be defying the purpose of the test...right? Do you get it? God wishes to elevate man to a rank higher than that of the angels, a rank into which humans submit and believe in god because they chose to and not because they are designed and told to. We are better than robots.

The test analogy does not work if God knows everything including the answers we will choose.

And what does the light means???? The moon exist all the time, but we are unable to see the moon without the sun light...Jesus is telling us the same thing...God exist, and Jesus came to the ignorance and pagan world to shine a light unto god to guide people into god's way....That's all...Why do you read more into things??

You don't think I can prove that Jesus is God from the bible? The Light is God's glory. It is apart of him because God is glorified for all time.

You are wrong....As MW says, the only thing between you and god is skin. When you die, you'll know the truth whether you are good or bad, and if you were bad, you'll wish you were lower and less significant than a rock, because at least the rock performed it's duty while you failed.

No, you are wrong. Aa a case in point, assume you are right. Then we could gain a higher state of worshiping God by killing ourselves. You accuse me of thickheadness but then accept what M*W says as truth? All musilms that I have spoken to believe that they worship directly God. You seem to be a freethinking muslim and that's ok but you don't have to accept cult doctrin. Sin means separation from God. Are you suggesting there is another separation that is not part of the sinful separation? We are separated by sin if even by Adam's sin.