where is the evidence for alien visitation?

[duendy]

I think its rather unfortunate phlo had to go and have a 'sleep paralysis' experience.....as it has fortified his feelings now that A L L abduction experiences that have EVER BEEEEEEN, and ever WILLLLL BEEEEE , are same........It would be great if some sceptic here had afull blown abduction experience sos we could see how they'd respond to it........IS there anyone here-maybe lurking also--who hashad this turn around

 

[Balerion]

Posted By: Mr Anonymous
Like any probability based mathematics, the more criteria and the more specific nature of those criteria one adds to the expected outcome, likelihoods of that specific outcome decrease.

I guess it's my utter lack of mathamatical prowess (which I am quick to admit to anyone) that makes me weary of the whole probability thing. It's a lack of understanding, to be sure, but I am simply uncomfortable placing probabilities on things we have really only one case of. We only have one case of known life--be in intelligent and otherwise--to study, so to assign probabilities to it's existance elsewhere just makes me weary.

(As a side note, I have previously, in another thread, stated that the crater chain mystery was solved with a singular event in the SL9 impact of Jupiter, but that is an entirely different case. In the case of life elsewhere, we have other planets in this solar system which do not harbor life, so life on Earth seems to be the exception to the rule)

Posted By: Mr Anonymous
... Well, Norval is a person of very singular beliefs. The only important thing remains that you don't think for an instant that any such thing remains likely to begin with.

This is true, and with the help of Skinwalker, I have realized that Norval is a prime example of the Psyeudoscientist; which might be the direct opposite of an actual scientist. A man like him, and a woman like Duendy, will never budge in their position. You, myself, Spurrious, and even Gustav, will change positions based on the evidence placed before us. If the science can find proof of alien life, then we will believe. If they can even find a way to prove that ET is visiting us in spaceships, we will believe. If science can find evidence that crater chains were caused by an interplanetary war, we will believe.

On the contrary, if science finds absolute proof that we are alone in the universe, Norval, Duendy, and their kind will simply shrug it off because it doesn't mix with their current beliefs. That is what seperates them from the rest of us, and what truly points them out to be less than critical thinkers: The inability to be dissuaded, to change their minds.

Hell, I'll be honest, and this might come as a shock to you, but I used to be a huge believer in UFOs and alien visitation. I used to watch a pro-UFO documentary and truly take it as the word of God. Show's like "sightings" and those kind were the truth to me, and I wouldn't hear otherwise. But as time went on, and I grew up a little, and surfed these boards (and others) I began to realize that there was a difference between the path I took to my beliefs and the paths most critical thinkers took to theirs. My path was TV shows and wild propoganda, and theirs was fact and testable, empirical evidence.

That's when I realized it was time to change my mind. For all believing I did, I realized I had no real conclusive evidence to back it up. No spaceships had ever been found, no alien bodies had ever been found, and no life had been found beyond Earth. All I had to rely on was a couple of lights I had seen in the sky, and what some anonymous people on TV adn the internet had told me. I simply couldn't believe that anymore.

JDisinformation

 

[shaman_]

I think its rather unfortunate phlo had to go and have a 'sleep paralysis' experience.....as it has fortified his feelings now that A L L abduction experiences that have EVER BEEEEEEN, and ever WILLLLL BEEEEE , are same........It would be great if some sceptic here had afull blown abduction experience sos we could see how they'd respond to it........IS there anyone here-maybe lurking also--who hashad this turn around

Hmm did phlogistician actually say that? You are not creating a straw man are you duendy? Logical fallacies seem to be your specialty.

me::'others' hey? who are these others you speak of? ones who think like you do?

Others in the forum. I get the impression that no one takes you seriously.

me::thought we were talkin bout what 'OPEN minds/ think...but never mind. closed minds? yu are callin me a closed mind huh? well YOU seem one from whee i am standing....why? your allegiance to PSY COP is whyyyy

Nope we were talking about your close-mindedness.

I am close-minded because I gave you a link to a csicop article? Well that makes perfect sense....

I have only read a few articles by csicop by the way.

me::for the THIIIRRRD time. where???? give us sources evidence-dude.i'll believe it when i seees it

Oh now you're all into evidence....

I am talking about reviews of cases where the data proves nothing either way. This is not what you want. You want csicop to publish an article that says "help! we don't know whats going on!! " . They do not publish articles like that.

me::wheredid you get the idea i DIDN@T look at it? i actually did, not realizin it was CSICOP at first, tho i still woulda......

Because (1) you resorted to attacks on csicop without even mentioning the article. (2) You didn't even know who the introduction was referring to!

look heck this out, and open ye miiind 'Debunking the Debunkers' http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue4/ar4debunking.html

Yes yes more ad hominem. Actually I refuse to read the article because I believe it was written by the Illuminati

ohhhh, i jest said i did do. now i may be some things....andother tings uually spouted by phlu and jdaaaaawg, but i try NOT to be pretentious. yesi looked and was met wit all kinds of technical jargon. i'm expected to understand all tat? what am i a fukin airline pilot or someting? get real.........so i look in a different way.....look. if you read the link i give you will see that CSIOPS have metaphysical assumptions---a materialist philosophy. THIS very same philosophy gives us te insidious mental health myth which presently is deleteriously affecting millions of people including children. I d not like hose fukin poeple. got it. i do not trust them at all. And do i haveto read the whole fukin Bible to know its false?.........

Again you bring up mental health... Including an appeal to emotion. Nice.

Your response there makes things a little clearer. Perhaps your hostility to science is driven by your inability to understand it. Don't be insulted by that, I don't understand a lot of it either.. Maybe you should take a course....

 

[duendy]

you are the second person patronizin me to take a course in science. so how comes then you'll who do....your notion of 'science' is so old hat, dont know hows you have the nerve to SAY 'science'....?? answer THAT?

ok..old phlo, tere may be no hope for him. old and stuck in his ways. but YOU. a young lad. how comesyou are so un-savvyt about Science, and the new ways of approach.....so i suggest yo take a class about THAT.....let yer hair down and stopp beingso old headed.

if you have doubts just remember whereyo is. you are on tis wondrous planet in the unbelieveable universe--think hubble space photies--.....in tis scenario, NYTHING is potentially possible. but no/....you want to pay homage to a bunch of old farts at PSY COP who love to be part of a dusty old farty evil scheme that keeps people tied to a materialistic understanding of reality. tat promotes 'mental health' and the druggin of millions of kids in schools so as theyWILL BELIEVE...Heil BushCo!

i neve even see yu branchingout from the pseudosceince forum......why are you enclosed in such a limiting worldview.....explore explore with meeeeeeeee. you know itmakes sense

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Anyway?

I heard aliens like to perform surgery and experiments on humans.

Did they ever leave an instrument behind in a human? After all, they also must have a monday morning in their week.

Or a pack of alien chewing gum on someones lawn?

Any physical evidence? The kind of physical evidence that you can actually touch and doesn't come just in the form of words flowing from someone's mouth?

Or would that be too demanding to ask for?

 

[duendy]

Anyway?

I heard aliens like to perform surgery and experiments on humans.

me:;SOME aliens. not all.

Did they ever leave an instrument behind in a human? After all, they also must have a monday morning in their week.

me::have you not been following the debate? I have mentioned that I recently saw a documentary about abductions. I it, a surgeon showed implants which have been taken out of abductees bodies. The surgeon said that some of them were very strange. Having weird membranes which cahnot be cut with a surgical knife. I am making notes from the taped programme ad will be soon at that section. When i get his name, are you planning on going to see teeimplats fo yurself? He siad that not ONE sceptic had bothered to look at the EVIDENCE......?

Or a pack of alien chewing gum on someones lawn?
me::yeah they MUST chew gum, specially with those looooong journies huh?

Any physical evidence? The kind of physical evidence that you can actually touch and doesn't come just in the form of words flowing from someone's mouth?

me::i MEAN that kindof evidence wouldn't stand up in COURT OF LAW wold it...? oh wiat it does doesn't ITTTT??? oooops
of course we can always treat people who DO share wit us their amaazing experiences wit complete and utter contempt cant we. just call em mad.....ahhhh sorted!

Or would that be too demanding to ask for?

the demanding part will be you hauling yer sceptical arse to the surgeon to survey theee EVIDENCE...solid an all. is it too demandin, or what?

 

[spuriousmonkey]

So I gather there is no physical evidence. Just stories.

 

[duendy]

So I gather there is no physical evidence. Just stories.

what part offff 'a surgeon claims he has physical evidence. are you gonna check it out?' dont you understand?

 

[phlogistician]

claims he has physical evidence.

Right, we haven't got evidence, just a claim.

What is it about that part that you don't grasp?

 

[(Q)]

you are the second person patronizin me to take a course in science.

I'll third the motion, all in favor say, 'Aye.'

 

[duendy]

-

Right, we haven't got evidence, just a claim.

What is it about that part that you don't grasp?

right. you wont respect anecdotal evidence. that we know, dont we?
So, i tell you i saw on a docu. a surgeon say he does have solid evidence. yeah. wil me?.....now, pnlo, what do you wat m to o. Find out this guy's address and post theimplants to you? what what ? are you preepared to travel, and find out if his claim is false or true?

 

[spuriousmonkey]

I think it is the burden of this so called surgeon to provide the possibilty for skeptical scientists to research this so called physical evidence (i.e send it by fedex to the nearest expert in question or if this person doesn't trust fedex bring it in person).

You can't expect people to fly all over the place because someone says they have evidence. That isn't the common practice in science. That's just pathetic if that is what is holding back the examination of 'real' physical evidence. It is grasping at straws.

Hei duendy. I have physical evidence of aliens in a shoebox. Buy a ticket right now and visit me ASAP.

Would you bother to come?

 

[glenn239]

Any physical evidence? The kind of physical evidence that you can actually touch and doesn't come just in the form of words flowing from someone's mouth?…So I gather there is no physical evidence. Just stories.

That’s my understanding as well. Judging from the info I’ve read, the more reliable the witnesses, the less likely that they report any form of alien contact. If this is so, then it’s a statistical, dead-on indicator that the phenomenon is based upon sightings, with no chance of any physical evidence aside from instrument recordings or pictures (or charcoal sketches, if ET raids an arts college). What’s being disputed is the notion that all eyewitness testimony must automatically be dismissed. There is no basis for doing so.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

There can be many causes behind eye witness reports. Alien visitation is an extraordinary claim. It needs extraordinary evidence. Not just stories.

 

[Balerion]

Posted By: Glenn239
That’s my understanding as well. Judging from the info I’ve read, the more reliable the witnesses, the less likely that they report any form of alien contact. If this is so, then it’s a statistical, dead-on indicator that the phenomenon is based upon sightings, with no chance of any physical evidence aside from instrument recordings or pictures

OKokokok...I'm not sure I'm reading this correctly...you are saying that more credible people are less likely to report contact, and thus the reports we do have are only sightings. So does that mean that only "credible" people have encountered more than simple sighting?

Or are you saying that because only kooks report these sightings that nobody believes them?

Maybe a lot of what you'd consider "credible" witnesses don't report these things is because only kooks see UFOs?

And this whole conversation of credibility actually makes no sense; what makes someone a "credible" witness to a UFO encounter? Duendy says a doctor claims to have removed "strange" artifacts from a patient...because he's a doctor, he's credible? Because he has a PhD?

Since when does having a PhD prevent you from being a complete lunatic? Let's say a man with a PhD in, say, mathematics, reports a UFO sighting...would you consider him credible?

Please, answer that question honestly. I mean it. I want to know.

JD

 

[Gustav]

Anyway?

I heard aliens like to perform surgery and experiments on humans.

Did they ever leave an instrument behind in a human? After all, they also must have a monday morning in their week.

Or a pack of alien chewing gum on someones lawn?

Any physical evidence? The kind of physical evidence that you can actually touch and doesn't come just in the form of words flowing from someone's mouth?

Or would that be too demanding to ask for?

actually yes

it is simple as this
spurious monkey goes down to the local bar, has a drink and takes off
time passes
spurious insists he was there that night
i say he was not

now spurious
prove to me beyond a doubt, with hard evidence, your presence at the bar

*no wild and implausible scenarios, please

 

[spuriousmonkey]

actually yes

it is simple as this
spurious monkey goes down to the local bar, has a drink and takes off
time passes
spurious insists he was there that night
i say he was not

now spurious
prove to me beyond a doubt, with hard evidence, your presence at the bar

*no wild and implausible scenarios, please

I paid with my bank card for the beer. In the morning I found the receipt in my pocket. It says the time and place of issue, plus states that I ordered 3 pints of beer and 3 shots of vodka. No tip recorded. Because I am a cheap bastard from holland.

Physical evidence.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Since when does having a PhD prevent you from being a complete lunatic? Let's say a man with a PhD in, say, mathematics, reports a UFO sighting...would you consider him credible?

I have a PhD.

 

[Gustav]

I paid with my bank card for the beer. In the morning I found the receipt in my pocket. It says the time and place of issue, plus states that I ordered 3 pints of beer and 3 shots of vodka. No tip recorded. Because I am a cheap bastard from holland.

Physical evidence.

implausible
most pay for drinks with cash (and tip)

now
prove you were there

 

[spuriousmonkey]

implausible
most pay for drinks with cash (and tip)

now
prove you were there

Nonsense,...in finland it is normal to pay with card.

And last time I got drunk on an american airport I was also paying with my credit card.